I am sorry to bring this subject up again. I know there were some hurt feelings lately. Mine included. I hope tensions and nerves have clamed enough to discuss this. I could just let this go. If we don't address this, then we are doomed to repeat it over and over. On Sunday, CBS morning program had a topic on logos. It served to remind the importance they have. Properly done, they etch themselves in your mind. You see the logo and you immediately know the product or club in our case. I am part of the Chicago Contingent. There is the hope of pulling some of us together so we can have group meetings and share our enthusiasm for the 914 on a little more local level. This is not intended to be separate from the club just a local segment inside the club. Unfortunately some toes were stepped on during the process of creating our logo.

We discovered that Jeroen is the owner of the profile logo we see on this site. Perhaps we didn't approach this correctly. I knew that someone owned it but was not sure who. A lot of work went into this and we were close to deciding. Jeroen came in and informed us that a part of our logo was his and we could use it on the site only. Shirts and stuff were not to be made! This is a little like saying were only to us it on Tuesdays. What good is it to have a logo that you cannot show proudly. Shirts, stickers and posters are the most common ways to show off your club and hobby affiliation.

I think I understand where Jeroen is coming from. Copy protection is a difficult thing to enforce. It no doubt is painful to see others abuse something that rightfully belongs to you. Attempts were made to make this logo different in an attempt to satisfy conflicts. That image was a little too close to Jeroen's for his liking. Imagine him feeling that that similar logo was still his and having to see it on a site he help start. That would be a hard pill to swallow. Every time he were to see it, would be a source of irration. It also didn't help that others out side the C.T. expressed careless attitudes about copyrights. Much of that served as rubbing salt in an open wound. The result was like seeing a multi car crash in slow motion. In the end, Jeroen pulled his permission for us to use the logo in ours.

A question I have is this: Is the logo in question the "Club Logo" or is this a logo that is sitting on our front door with Jeroen's permission. When I say "Club Logo" I mean is this the symbol we use to clearly identify ourselves. Are we interested in promoting this club? I think we are. I think we should be allowed, no encouraged to put this on our shirts, window stickers, posters etc. What better way to show your pride and enthusiasm.

I would like to see rules on this matter. We have posted club rules on other subjects. I think if there had been rules posted about this copyright subject, this whole thing could have been averted. This will be up to Jeroen. It is his property. He will have to be willing to state how and where the logo can and cannot be used.

That brings up the question, is this a club or a web site?
Cheers, Elliot

QUOTE (Elliot Cannon @ Feb 27 2006, 05:36 PM)

That brings up the question, is this a club or a web site? Cheers, Elliot

also, can you define "is"

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Feb 27 2006, 03:37 PM)

QUOTE (Elliot Cannon @ Feb 27 2006, 05:36 PM) That brings up the question, is this a club or a web site?            Cheers,   Elliot also, can you define "is"

You mean like "is" she under my desk?

QUOTE

That brings up the question, is this a club or a web site?

There is all the club/ non club talk. Maybe it is related. I was told of it but an explination wasn't given. but then NO HIJACKING. And from a pilot no less

QUOTE (Elliot Cannon @ Feb 27 2006, 02:38 PM)

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Feb 27 2006, 03:37 PM) QUOTE (Elliot Cannon @ Feb 27 2006, 05:36 PM) That brings up the question, is this a club or a web site?            Cheers,   Elliot also, can you define "is" You mean like "is" she under my desk?

we'll need to know what she would be doing under your desk. As in: she "is".......

QUOTE (TROJANMAN @ Feb 27 2006, 03:45 PM)

QUOTE (Elliot Cannon @ Feb 27 2006, 02:38 PM) QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Feb 27 2006, 03:37 PM) QUOTE (Elliot Cannon @ Feb 27 2006, 05:36 PM) That brings up the question, is this a club or a web site?            Cheers,   Elliot also, can you define "is" You mean like "is" she under my desk? we'll need to know what she would be doing under your desk. As in: she "is".......

.....shining my shoes.

QUOTE (Elliot Cannon @ Feb 27 2006, 05:50 PM)

QUOTE (TROJANMAN @ Feb 27 2006, 03:45 PM) QUOTE (Elliot Cannon @ Feb 27 2006, 02:38 PM) QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Feb 27 2006, 03:37 PM) QUOTE (Elliot Cannon @ Feb 27 2006, 05:36 PM) That brings up the question, is this a club or a web site?            Cheers,   Elliot also, can you define "is" You mean like "is" she under my desk? we'll need to know what she would be doing under your desk. As in: she "is"....... .....shining my shoes.

and by "shining" you mean polishing?
and by "shoes" you mean?

Do you get the feeling they are trying to change the subject?????

QUOTE

and by "shining" you mean polishing? and by "shoes" you mean?

another word for "shining" is "polishing"
and i think "shoes" is code word for "knob"

I didn't know pilots had desks.. I thought you worked at bar stools

There are things artists must do to secure there work as in copyrights©, trademarks™ and such. The 914 club website does display a copyright correctly and thus is protected under it.

I have posted some images of my work on the site without a © attached and would be unhappy to see them show up somewhere without my permission.
This is a club with members that attend functions and events together so it seems that anything that has to do with the club and its activities should be available to promote it.

I would be happy to design a logo for the club and its members to be used as they wish.

Since I am a proclaimed Dead Head I believe in sharing the music.

QUOTE (bmunday @ Feb 27 2006, 04:05 PM)

I didn't know pilots had desks.. I thought you worked at bar stools

how do you keep elliot, matt, brian, and skline happy for hours?





turn the barstool upside down....

Aaron made one he'd prolly let ya use.

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Feb 27 2006, 04:14 PM)

QUOTE (bmunday @ Feb 27 2006, 04:05 PM) I didn't know pilots had desks.. I thought you worked at bar stools how do you keep elliot, matt, brian, and skline happy for hours? turn the barstool upside down....

As they say in Dubai.... "May the fleas of a thousand camels crawl upon you."

Elliot

The purpose of my post is not so much to get a logo for our little group (the C.T.). It was more to the question of the club as a whole. What do we have that says who we are? I was hoping that Jeroen would spell out his position a little better. I think we as a club need a logo that represents us and is used to promote us by us. Something that says 914club. If Jeroen doesn't want this to happen, maybe we should do a different logo that we can all use. Maybe a contest?

This is a "non-club". The "club" essentially owns no property. SirAndy provides the computer hardware the bandwidth, and several people have worked on the software. Several people work on the various events. Unlike many clubs, there's no treasury or bank account associated with the club, so there are no club funds that pay for anything, so there's no club "ownership" of anything. The sole exception to this (technically) would be the domain name, which is "owned" by Brad, and paid for out of his pocket (btw, this expires this December...).

The logo belongs to Jeroen, so the "rules" are whatever Jeroen wants them to be. If you would like to use the logo for some purpose, just bring it up with Jeroen privately via email.

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Feb 27 2006, 03:14 PM)

QUOTE (bmunday @ Feb 27 2006, 04:05 PM) I didn't know pilots had desks.. I thought you worked at bar stools how do you keep elliot, matt, brian, and skline happy for hours? turn the barstool upside down....

hardy, har, har. Now back under the desk..

QUOTE (bmunday @ Feb 27 2006, 04:34 PM)

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Feb 27 2006, 03:14 PM) QUOTE (bmunday @ Feb 27 2006, 04:05 PM) I didn't know pilots had desks.. I thought you worked at bar stools how do you keep elliot, matt, brian, and skline happy for hours? turn the barstool upside down.... hardy, har, har. Now back under the desk..

ROFL

We dont need no contest, art is subjective just post away anything for the 914club domain.

The only permission would be for us to be able to use the 914 club name in the form of art and copy for the members and not to be used to profit from, unless those proceeds are channeled to support the website and the bail bond fund drives.

ok, time for another "let me clear up a few things" post ...


- no club!
this is a website for 914 enthusiasts provided *for free* (no membership dues) by us (the admins) to other 914 enthusiasts.
there is no club president or treasurer, no board meetings, no bank account, no funds, no tax-id, no help for howard, no monthly pamphlet, no membership cards, no membership dues.
this might well be the biggest "non club" club around, but the fact is, this is *not* a club ...

- logos etc.
here's how it works. jeroen designed the logo and all the webpages (with a few exceptions). it's his original design, so he owns he copyright for it.
but the main reason why we don't just want anyone and their cousin to go ahead and use the logo for their shirts, hats etc. is simply that we (the admins) agreed a long time ago that we would like to be able to maintain a certain quality of products that have the 914club logo/name on it.
so, in the past, whenever the issue has come up (custom shirts, hats, etc.) we have worked with the members in question to assure the product met our quality expectations.
we're not against the use of the logo etc. but we would like to be included in the process for the above reason.
the logo will *never* be a "free for all" to use. if you have an idea about a shirt etc., contact an admin and we'll work it out ...

clear enough?
Andy

What is this "logo" of Jeroen's that you're discussing?

Some of us don't know what you guys are talking about..

QUOTE (reverie @ Feb 27 2006, 04:17 PM)

What is this "logo" of Jeroen's that you're discussing?

top of this page, the 914club banner has a white outline of a 914.
we used this on numerous items, like 914club shirts, hats and stickers ...

Andy

QUOTE (reverie @ Feb 27 2006, 08:17 PM)

What is this "logo" of Jeroen's that you're discussing? Some of us don't know what you guys are talking about..

Dude... top of the page... et all.

I don't want to start a flame war or anything, but I saw this come up a while back, and had a question about the logo. Did Jeroen do the logo(s) for Rennlist as well? Because the use a similar logo on the stainless steel coffee cup I have sitting on my desk. Just curious.

(I know this is a deceased equine)

QUOTE (Eddie Williams @ Feb 27 2006, 04:25 PM)

(I know this is a deceased equine)

QUOTE (Eddie Williams @ Feb 27 2006, 04:25 PM)

I don't want to start a flame war

you just did ...

the magick word here is "similar" ... yes, other people have done outlines of cars before.
why do you think that would matter in any way? the logo is still jeroen original design ...

what part of that don't you guys get? he made it. doesn't matter if someone else has something "similar" in concept or idea. the logo is still jeroen original design. get it?

allright, here we go again. i should probably lock this thread right now, it's gonna get way ugly from here ...

Andy

I understand, it's just I think you guys gave the dude from chicago an unfair hard time about it... thats all. Can I kill this thread now???

is that one smiley humping the horses nose???

where's the malotov cocktail smilie??? I gotta go to class now... this should be inteesting in 2 hours!!! sorry, andy!

please forgive me.

QUOTE (Eddie Williams @ Feb 27 2006, 04:35 PM)

I think you guys gave the dude from chicago an unfair hard time about it...

it wasn't even that guy. it was all the other "experts" that just had to tell us what they *think* they know about copyright laws ...

but none of that really matters, the rule is simple:

you want to use the logo, ask jeroen first!


i'm just afraid that is still way to complicated for some of the guys here ...
someone is always looking for trouble, you know ...

Andy

think intellectual property guys.

k

I am a proud to be 914 non club member.

I have no desire to use Jeroen's logo but I think he did a great job in the designing of it and support the products that bare it.

My logo idea will probably feature nudes.

I just wanted to say hi before this gets locked


hey.

b

simple....

if jeroen says no = don't use the logo

This would make a good logo

I did a logo and saved it in word, but couldn't post, what did I do wrong?

QUOTE (bmunday @ Feb 27 2006, 08:35 PM)

I did a logo and saved it in word, but couldn't post, what did I do wrong?

needs to be a JPEG

QUOTE (bmunday @ Feb 27 2006, 07:35 PM)

I did a logo and saved it in word

Word?