I may be gifted a roller so I am looking in to this as a longer term project... roller no interior and a stock 2.0L , no trans

saying that the car is stripped down to a nothing roller

what do you think the cost is to build a suby conversion .. I am leaning towards the wrx engine .. but not stuck on it...

what parts in general are needed to make a proper conversion ( and yes I know a radiator )


I hear renegade is the place for this anyone got the website address...

www.renegadehybrids.com

I got about $26K in mine!

Though I am in the middle of a EXTENSIVE rebuild...

would you think a raby engine is a better choice?

noo.... don't... ask... that... question....

(I'm sick of all the bickering!)

your going to have to make your own mind up because the answer to that question is that its what ever you like.

do some searches and be prepaired to spend 4 or 5 hours reading....

there is info out there about all of the conversions ad naseum!

pick your flavor and then do it.

brant

QUOTE (sk8kat1 @ Mar 6 2006, 05:01 PM)

would you think a raby engine is a better choice?

if you want aircooled, the Raby motor is a great choice, if watercooled the subaru is a great choice......trying to ask which is better makes no sense whatsoever...2 totally differant animals

it comes down to personal choice and budget.....the qoute of $26K is not the engine conversion alone, his car is tricked out...

currently Renegade is the only place for suby kit....there might be others in the near future......the other people that have put suby motors into thier 914s did it themselves, if you have to ask how to do it without a kit, then it's not a project for you....

$3k if you make stuff yourself. Some fabrication, a bunch of eletronics, etc. Big job. See threads on the subject by Scott Thacher, myself, and a few others.

If you want to buy a bunch of parts it will be around $5-$7k.

Start researching the subject. Pretty much every question about this subject has been asked and debated on this board, multiple times.

-Tony

so you are talking 5- 7K for engine up and running electronics and all ?

.. I assume that is not including axles and a 5 lug upgrade ,etc right?

QUOTE (sk8kat1 @ Mar 6 2006, 05:40 PM)

so you are talking 5- 7K for engine up and running electronics and all ? .. I assume that is not including axles and a 5 lug upgrade ,etc right?

you don't "need" a 5 lug conversion for a suby conversion....

no need for custom axles either with the suby conversion offered by renegade since they use the stock transmission......

QUOTE

so you are talking 5- 7K for engine up and running electronics and all ? .. I assume that is not including axles and a 5 lug upgrade ,etc right?

I'm talking just for an engine conversion. basically it breaks down like this..

$3k for renegade's parts
$1500 for electronics
$1500 for an engine (maybe more or less, hard to say)

If you want to make a car from a roller and want to do 5 lug etc. etc. then get ready for a much bigger number. Essentially I am doing that, but I'm doing it all myself and I've happened upon lots of good deals.

-Tony

so where is agood place to start looking at for engines... and as far as the conversion is there any differance in what needs to be done turbo vs non?

If you talk to Renegade, the cost is around 10-12K if they do it all. And that really depends on which suby engine you want to put in.. Don't forget, if you have an engine in already you can auction it off for about 500-750.

There's also a place in the Seattle area called Small Car Performance that will do the job for about the same cost. They primarily to Vanagon conversions.

Take a look at my blog. Engines are transmissions are cheap (compared to T4's) for Suby's - everything else costs $. If you don't care about originality "I" think the Suby is the way to go. Nobody does a turnkey swap for the engine and trans, the cars are worth paying someone to do the work at current shop rates. This is not really a problem you just do it yourself. Take a look at Ebay for engines the EJ-25 with aftermarket EFI is going to be the easiest swap.

Found my 2004 EJ25 N/A on www.car-part.com . You can search for different year models, choose through mileage and distance from you. Might be a place to start to get a ball park figure for an engine....

QUOTE (TonyAKAVW @ Mar 6 2006, 04:52 PM)

QUOTE so you are talking 5- 7K for engine up and running electronics and all ? .. I assume that is not including axles and a 5 lug upgrade ,etc right? I'm talking just for an engine conversion. basically it breaks down like this.. $3k for renegade's parts $1500 for electronics $1500 for an engine (maybe more or less, hard to say) If you want to make a car from a roller and want to do 5 lug etc. etc. then get ready for a much bigger number. Essentially I am doing that, but I'm doing it all myself and I've happened upon lots of good deals. -Tony

is the turbo any more difficult to swap than a nonturbo -- to the point that it would make you NOT want the power at the end of the project?

QUOTE

is the turbo any more difficult to swap than a nonturbo -- to the point that it would make you NOT want the power at the end of the project?

Yes, the turbo is more difficult. Is it worth it? Depends on what you want. A turbo in general will mean a front mounted radiator, which isn't really difficult since its been done a billion times. Renegade has prefected this front mounted radiator system, so thats an off the shelf item really.

You have to stuff more things into the engine bay. Other than that, probably not a whole lot more difficult.

The Renegade way is the easy way. Not necessarily the best or cheapest way, but definitely the easiest way.

-Tony

I see that most guys that are doing the suby thing -- are listed as ej25 conversions -- that is the NON turbo correct?...

QUOTE (TonyAKAVW @ Mar 7 2006, 09:46 AM)

QUOTE is the turbo any more difficult to swap than a nonturbo -- to the point that it would make you NOT want the power at the end of the project? Yes, the turbo is more difficult. Is it worth it? Depends on what you want. A turbo in general will mean a front mounted radiator, which isn't really difficult since its been done a billion times. Renegade has prefected this front mounted radiator system, so thats an off the shelf item really. You have to stuff more things into the engine bay. Other than that, probably not a whole lot more difficult. The Renegade way is the easy way. Not necessarily the best or cheapest way, but definitely the easiest way. -Tony

Tony,

Not to start any BS.

But I am curious...

In your opinion, what is the better way to do this conversion?

The only extra work for a turbo is relocating the turbo with a custom up and down pipe. which is not ANY big deal plus it gives you xtra ponies!

QUOTE

In your opinion, what is the better way to do this conversion?

My opinion is based on my preference for how I want my car to end up. So when I say not necessarily the best, I just mean that for me and some others its not the best. There really isn't a best way, or really a "better" way for all people. To me however the idea of losing a trunk is undesireable, so having a radiator in the engine bay is "better" for me.

Also I like the idea of getting the engine mounted as low possible. The Renegade cradle mount, as far as I can tell does not require the oil pan to be cut. This being the case, the engine must be mounted up roughly 2 inches from where it can be mounted using a U-shaped engine mount bar and the stock transmission mounts.

Further, by using a U-shaped bar, engine bay mounted radiator (no long water lines), and eliminating the stock engine mounts I can save at least a few pounds of weight. I'm aiming for 1900-2000 lbs or less in the end, and every bit of added weight matters to me.

While the Rengeade solution is great for a lot of people, in my opinion for the type of 914 I want, is not the best solution. Everyone contemplating doing a conversion has to weigh the options, in terms of what they want their car to end up as, whether they ever want to return to the original engine, if they care about trunk space, how much weight they will tolerate, center of mass, etc. A big one though and probably the biggest for most people is the ability to fabricate their own parts. A lot of people simply don't have the time/resources/desire to build up all their own stuff.

So, I'm not trying to dismiss the Renegde product as suboptimal ( I really do think its a great product), I'm just trying to point out that there are other ways to do it with varying tradeoffs.

-Tony

well said Tony...

I am interested in the "u" shaped bar. Are you mounting the cradle at the ends of the "U"? If so, we have tried that and it doesn't work well. There is too much slop in that mount if that is the way you are doing it...

Yes, very well said indeed Tony.

I opted for the N/A version because it seemed a little less complicated (read, no previous turbo experience) to tune and adjust once the assembly was finished. I also wanted to stay away from extra heat issues in the engine bay. Just my opinion.

I on the other hand will be using a front mounted radiator instead of the one as Tony is trying. I figured this is a tried and true method with the V8 guys so it should be good enough for me. To still be able to use my front for trunk space, I removed the stock gas tank and will fit a fuel cell in front of the strut support wall thingy (whats that thing called?) I'll put a false floor to cover the steering linkage and still be able to fit a couple of duffle bags under the hood.

Everyone has there own little ideas to make it different to suit their own needs, your build will end up the same way as you go through it.

WRX914, the u-shaped mounting bar that Tony fabbed cradles the engine kind of like a swing. The mounting points are up on the sides of the shock tower. He has pics and dimensions posted on his build thread. I like this idea because there is no moment arm supporting the engine, it seems to be a very sturdy way of mounting. I'll be following his footsteps....

Check out this page of my thread...

here

There's a diagram, pictures, etc.

It requires some cutting and welding. Those screws are not the permanent method of attachment. They are there so I can drive the car to a place to get it welded...

It doesn't make for a good plug and play product. The Renegade cradle plugs in as a bolt on part so that makes it a lot more desireable for some.

In terms of strength, this thing is REALLY strong. The plates that weld onto the longs are 1/4 inch thick and the tubing is 1.5 inch square tubing, 70 mils thick. It weighs about as much as a stock 914 engine mount bar, and is probably a bit overkill. Its far more substantial that most V-8 bars that I've seen.


-Tony