Just about to drop the motor and trans on a '74 2.0L to rebuild the motor, and will be posting questions along the way. Thanks in advance for all who reply.

First things first. What advice do you have for cleaning the outside of the motor and trans? Any chemicals I should use or avoid? What prep work do I need to do first (eg, to protect sensitive parts)?

Thanks.

I like cleaning chemicals!!

I use a combo of ENGINE BRIGHT and B-12 Chemtool! if you are going to rebuild everything, these won't hurt anything.. I would pull the distibutor before you start spraying everything.

Brake Cleaner... buy it from your FLAPS by the case. Don't be stingy - just spray the hell out of stuff.

-Rusty

Get a case of Berrymans Brake Cleaner as it washes away the grime with some force. Makes a mess on the garage floor but it evaporate quickly.

Geoff

tat2dphreak,

Can you please clarify your response? What if I wasn't "going to rebuild everything?" What else should I remove besides the distributor (should I plug the hole before I spay)? Should I remove all wires, hoses, etc?

Thanks.

if I remember there are some rubber rings on the dizzy... b-12 will eat those. that's all I was saying... don't ask me how I know about B-12 and rubber...

as long as the B-12(or BRIGHT) doesn't hit rubber parts, you are fine...

You can spray it all. The brake cleaner wont hurt anything (unless the tin has been painted with Krylon).. then it will peel the paint off.

Welcome to the BBS Mike. Its good to see some more Michigan people.

The 914club is here almost 24/7 for you.


B

Did you start taking prozac today



M

Re: rebuilds

I have wondered why pistons and cylinders are routinely replaced, they are a major expense and really dont see much wear (or do they?). On the premise that you dont want to increase displacement and that the original pistons are within dimensional 'spec', why replace them? Jake R even recommends boring out original cylinders in lieu of buying new cylinders because it is a better solution.

Do they fatigue and break under normal service conditions? I have yet to see a holed piston or cracked cyl on this site since it started.

If they fatigue...is there someway to check for defects like magnafluxing?

The piston question is one that I'll eventually need resolved, but I'm far from that point at the moment. (Just got the engine out.) But it does bring up the question 'what should I do while I'm at it?'

It will not be a show car but I would like to improve performance and looks without braking the bank in the process. What can I add, replace or modify to increase performance? Again, without braking the bank.

I plan on painting the tin and replacing hoses and wires where needed.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks.

you can slap in some 96mm pistons to make it a 2056 with not much trouble.. you can also put a Crane or MSD ignition in... a good ignition is always a good idea to help HP... it's one of the easiest and cheapest hp bolt-ons...

More compression is good for power. Up to a point... 8.5:1 should be fine, even on the 91-octane crap they give us in CA. If you're out east where you can get 93 or 94, you can probably even go up to 9:1 without any real problems!! You'll have to mess with plug gaps and possibly timing, but hey.

You can go larger on the displacement. Get the stock (1.8 or 2.0 only!) barrels honed out to 96mm, get some 96mm pistons and go. That's the 2056cc referred to above. May take some tinkering with the FI to get it "happy".

If you're switching to carbs or an aftermarket EFI, you can go more aggressive on the cam. If you go big enough there, you can reduce your fuel octane requirements due to high compression, or you can raise the compression even more than above.

Porting and flowing the heads is always nice, provided it's done well.

...And there's a lot more than "can" be done!!

--DD

What was the octane level of gas in the mid seventies? Was the 914's low c/r just for emissions purposes?

Spent Saturday tearing down the motor. Got the heads and pistons off. #3 exhaust valve seat dropped and cut a groove in the piston top.

Spent Sunday scaping off gunk from tranny & heads.

Sprayed Engine Bright onto heads. It removed heavy stuff but they still look dirty. I've heard Easy Off oven cleaner works well. Anyone tried this?

Thanks.

Well, since the valve seat dropped, your probably gonna take it to get repaired and reconditioned, The shop usually bead blasts the heads clean so they can see their work.

That takes care of cleaning the heads. What about the trans? Had the same results with Engine Bright. I scraped, wiped, sprayed with EB, rinsed, scraped, wiped. Still looks dirty in places. The question still remains: should I use Easy Off oven cleaner? Anyone tried this?

Thanks.

I have not tried Easy off oven cleaner.. from what I gather.. you need HEAT to make it work correctly (duh.. its a oven cleaner.. I know)

Stick with the brake cleaner.. and plan on spending 50-60$ on 2 cases of it.

The biggest headache of owning a 914 is getting it clean after 30+ years of road grime.. once you get it clean.. take care of it.


I use wire brushes sometimes to break up the big chunks while I spray with brake cleaner.


B

So far it looks like brake cleaner, wire brushes and elbow grease. I was hoping for an easier solution.

I've heard that the heat issue with easy off can be solved by putting it outside in the sun. This could be hard to do with the gray days of winter here in Michigan approaching.

My worry with easy off is that there would be some undesirable chemical reaction. Ovens have porcelain interiors whereas the trans is aluminum alloy. Correct?

For the cooling tin I was thinking of removing all rubber and taking to the local machine shop to have it baked. Is there a better, more cost effective way? I have access to a sand blaster. Should I have the tin baked first?

Speaking of heads... What can I have done to the heads to increase power and improve longevity? I don't want to drop another valve seat. Keep in mind I will NOT be converting to carbs.

Thanks.

I'm betting the easy off would eat into the tranny case or at least discolor it.

Go ahead and take all your tin to the machine shop and have them put in their steam bath to get it all clean (I use brake cleaner and some old rags) DONT sand blast it unless you plan on havingit all powder coated again. Painting them SUCKS. The paint will come off with time... Normally the factory tin is in pretty good shape underneath the grime. Unless I'm planning on showing the car.. I just clean the tin up.

The heads: Most of the local machine shops are using vanagon valve springs which have a higher spring tension (and they are cheap)... you can have the exhaust ports polished to help some flow.. I have contemplated running larger exhaust valves .. but havent done it.. because of my local race rules.


B

Again, its like sitting in a class and I still need to take the pre-requisite courses!!! But I'm taking notes.

Since we are in this guys engine, can I ask a question?

What would cause an intake valve to bend/brake??? Just wondering in order to start some sort of preventive thinking right now. My last 914 1.7 had an intake valve pop/break/bend, and I would like to work to avoid this type of thing in the future.

I'll be taking apart that engine in order to learn as much as possible, but until then, are their preventive measures?

almost always it's getting up-close and too-personal with a piston crown. >smack<

over-revving can do it - for which there are rev-limiting dizzy rotors (although the fact that the engines can't usually run into valve float rev-range on their own acts as a pretty good deterrent...) and there are things to do in the shifter department that keep you from tagging 2nd when you were trying for 4th in that freeway-speed downshift...

-maybe- if a valve step is -really- sticky from carbon, gum, sludge, and goo it could stick in its guide and be in the way when a piston comes by - but with flat-top 914 pistons you almost have to work at it. although - having clerances set up WAY too tight sets the stage for multiple ills ...

Actually, it was the valve SEAT that dropped on my engine, not the valve itself.

I've heard this is a common occurance with these engines because of the location of #3 cylinder. It does not get as much air as the others and hence runs hotter. My engine had 120K miles and this seems to be around the time this happens. Happened on a '65 Bug I had at 113K.

How do I tell if I need new valve springs?
Should I get stiffer/stronger ones?

The dropped seat problem is because the engine is getting too hot. Usually this is caused by the engine running lean due to vacuum leaks from old hoses and seals.

Geoff

I'm getting conflicting information on the big bore piston/cylinder kits. Are they worth the cost compared to the (minimal?) increase in power? 96mm bolt-on kits seem to run around $500.

I've also heard that they will cuase the FI to run rich. What mods to the FI would need to be done. Would this mean more $$$?

Contact Brad about a set 96mm pistons and cylinders when he gets back. I heard he found a good source for them.
If you don't do head work the stock 043 MPS should be close, maybe a tad LEAN not rich. If you can find a stock 037 MPS, that would work better at they are richer straight out of the box.
I can also adjust one for you, if you have a good 043 unit, a tad richer.

Geoff

Geoff, thanks for the info.

Is that Brad Roberts?

Brad, are you back? Can you tell me of a good source for 96mm pistons and cylinders?

I know this will sound like a stupid question to most but, what does MPS stand for? How do I find out if I have an 037 or 043?

Thanks.

manifold pressure sensor. Part # is stamped on it.

Broken valve - overrevving and 'floating', or improper adjustment, or broken spring.

Degreasing - I used ZEP CITRUS all purpose cleaner degreaser and a spraybottle from Home Depot and my wife's toothbrush. The citrus stuff works just as well and is much nicer smelling than brake cleaner, amnd seems not to hurt the rubber. Don't be fooled, it is just as nasty to the skin. Engine Tin off first for access, the plug the holes with rags, then CAREFULLY pressure wash it, the Citrus and toothbrush. Brake cleaner and nozzle to blast tapped holes and other tight bits. I'd think twice before using caustics on Aluminum. IIRC Oven cleaner is basically diluted caustic soda (potassium hydroxide) - frighteneing stuff which may attack aluminum. It may say on the label.

Here's how I cleaned the small bits - find two large tin tin cans, one of which just fits in the other, pepper the smaller one with small holes, like a colander. (I used a baby formula can and a juice can) Drop fasteners/parts in colander can and insert in big can, fill with varsol or whatever and let sit. Agitate occasionally so stuff can beat the grease off itself and crud can get flushed through holes to settle. Remove inner can and rest on angle on top of outer can to drain and dry.

Dave

CLR (crap lime rust) has a new oil removing product out that makes huge black oils spots disappear from cement.

I wonder if it would remove the engine?.. errr... grease..




M

I now have the motor dissasembled and most of the parts cleaned. While cleaning bolts, washers and nuts I was thinking "how am I going to know which ones go where?" Is there a reference that states size, type, material and location of bolts, washers and nuts?
Thanks.

there are the exploded parts diagrams available from various sources..

i suppose this probably isn't the time to mention that a excellent disassembly technique is to get a box of ZipLock sandwich bags and a box of business cards and record what the parts and fasteners are as you put them into the baggies ...

but this problem is why many (most?) professional mechanics hate dealing with the 'basket case' project...

at this point - check out the various manuals for reassembly instructions and try to match up every fastener with an associated step. i think there may be a copy of the 914 Parts Manual and its associated exploded diagrams and descriptions on the site somewhere - but someone else is going to have to post that - i donno where we hide them ...

How far did you go with the disasembly? Did you split the case, or just top end?

When I rebuilt my engine I saved peanut butter jars (plastic ) labled the lids for all the bolts,nuts and small parts. the rest into old milk crates.

Rest of what into milk crates? We need details!

The pistons, jugs, rods and small engine tin pieces.The larger items,cam, heads,etc.wrapped it old sheets and put in a large rubber made container.All the F.I. pieces went into a large rubber made container ..but every plugin was labeled with masking tape as to their location.All hoses labeled and put into a large cardboard box,with a diagram of what it all looked like.Took pictures of everything as I took it apart. and notes, lots of notes.

ok, you have a place to start. Good job on the labeling. I do the same thing. Can you post pics of what you need to identify? The amount of a particular item can let know where it might go. The size, condition, color, might give a few hints.

Did you split the case?

the only pictures I have left are the before and after,the others got to dirty after rebuild to even keep.with the F.I. label all the hoses as to what went where then get new ones and match them up and label the replacments.label the wire harness,what plug goes to which injector. I did split the case,take pictures.Get a manual ..haynes worked for me.this web site ,Pelican ,Renn list; I even used a AUTO ATLANTA parts book to identify parts.

Are the 96mm p/c sets the suggested course of action now vs. boring out the 94's? I read on some old webpages that quality of the 96mm cylinders sucks.

I think I want to go 96mm on my 2.0 rebuild.

Also what is the preferred machine shop in the bay area to take my case, crank, rods, etc to have them checked out and rebuilt?