I have gathered a nice collection of pics and saw a picture from underneath the car looking at the tranny and shafts. I know the drivetrain has been pushed bach an inch and a half but the shafts look like they really are angled badly. What problems arise cause of this and what can I do to strengthen the shafts or cv's? Upgrades?
Thanks!
Ian in Iraq

54 days till stateside
59 till I drive

What problems?? It's not an issue of angle, these kits have been sold for 20+ years with the transmission moved back like that...it's more of a problem once you reach a certain HP/torque level

Renegade Hybrids sells an upgraded axle/CV assembly....
Renegade also sells the majority of all V8 kits...not sure at what HP/torque output one "needs" the beefier stuff at but they would be a good place to contact.....

The reason the axles look like they are at an extreme angle is that because the car is on a lift, the rear suspension is at its maximum extension. When driving I'm sure that they aren't so steep. Moving the transmission back an inch and a half is probalby not going to angle them badly enough to do anything. And Like Mueller said, these are proven over and over again to work.

-Tony

So at what hp is it recommended to do an upgrade? I don't remember where I saw it but I think somebody used bus shafts and cv's. I plan on around, or hope , no more than 400 horse. I have an engine waiting to go in and I used to run 10.15s in the quarter in my 64 Chevy Nova II SS. It has about 480 horse and I plan on brining it down for the street. Your thoughts??

Ian in Iraq

QUOTE (army dude @ Mar 15 2006, 10:13 AM)

So at what hp is it recommended to do an upgrade? I don't remember where I saw it but I think somebody used bus shafts and cv's. I plan on around, or hope , no more than 400 horse. I have an engine waiting to go in and I used to run 10.15s in the quarter in my 64 Chevy Nova II SS. It has about 480 horse and I plan on brining it down for the street. Your thoughts?? Ian in Iraq

the "correct" method would be getting the "good" stuff right at the start...........

do it right or do it again

the stock stuff can work, but if you plan on beating on the car, something is going to break........

I fully agree on doing it once and doing it right. I am trying to do my homework and get the experience of the v8 community. I am not in the mood to spend money twice. Any thoughts here only go into my car. So then, is Renegade the best place for these upgrades or is somebody else better? I remember when Renegade came out with the conversion and I still have the article with both the 914 and 911 featured. That is what hooked me. I also am aware of the short comings of the stock tranny. That too will be dealt with.
Ian in Iraq

I did my V8 swap with the help of the guys here. Lots of help and pictures here. Thank you all.

Here is a picture of the axle angle that resulted in moving the drivetrain approximately 1.5" back on my V8 swap.

Mike T.

HP isn't what kills gearboxes and axles, it's torque. A higher revving 300hp 305 would do less damage than a lower- revving 300hp 350, and the 305 would make less torque. In addition to the axles problem, one chronic problem with the V8 guys is the fact that the gearing in the 914 box is so short. 70mph = 3500rpm in top gear. The stock first gear is basically useless (so it's often removed to make a 4-speed). Taller final drives are basically not available (not tall enough, anyway). So, either taller gears in the box itself (which are available, but hard to find and expensive), or a different gearbox, are generally used. Building a V8 that's meant to rev rather than be a stump-puller is also very helpful.

I've not seen in done, but I personally think something like a 289 Ford would be better suited to a 914 than a 350 Chevy crate engine. Run a DIS ignition to solve the distributor problem (dizzy will hit the firewall), and tune it to make 250-275hp with 250ft/lbs, and you'd have a killer 914 V8.

There is also a solution that uses 944 turbo CV joints for a 5 lug. They are a lot bigger and stronger than the stock 914 CV joints.

I am running 944 cvs on my 914/6 conversion. They work fine.

Sorry I don't have it handy, but if you search, you should find the thread on this.

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Mar 15 2006, 11:12 AM)

In addition to the axles problem, one chronic problem with the V8 guys is the fact that the gearing in the 914 box is so short. 70mph = 3500rpm in top gear.

It doesn't hurt anything, just wastes gas and is annoying. We have all just gotten very used to having overdrives on our cars.
Take a ride in a stock HiPo car from the 60's - it will cruise at 3500+ at 65-70 with 4.11's (or 4.56's) it's worse. My friends old dead stock (perfect restoration) Hemi Bellvideere (sp) would float the valves in 4th gear at a little over 110.

On a stock 901 transaxle with a 195/60/15 tire 3500rpm is 80MPH not 70.

The transaxles are easy to regear there was a H gear that sold here not to long ago for $200. If you have a good transaxle $200 plus a gasket set would be all it would cost. With this at 3500 rpm you would be running 100 MPH

Bob

Ian - another possibility is this. You can get late model carrera outer hubs and buy turbo axle assemblies with the stub axle "built in". Jim at Patrick Motorsports sells some simple little aluminum spacers to make that combo work with the stock 914 wheel bearings.

Then at the inner CV, I would guess that an adapter for 930 size CVs would exist (though you would need to research that a little). With the rear offset you have, the CVs are already "stretched out" a little, so the spacer should fit in there, not bind, and maybe relax the CVs a little.

I have the late outers with turbo axles and the spacers in mine and it worked perfectly. I have a 930 trans and I made some spacers to relax the CVs a little (why I don't know about an adapter as I have the bigger trans already).

Also, depending on what kinda torque you put out and how hard you drive, the 901 may not make it. I have 438 ft-lbs in my V8. If you go with 400+ torque, just skip the 915 and go 930 as it is about the same $$ in the end and WAYYY stronger.

Awesome info guys!!

So if I go with the 930 trans what can I expect out of it with a "tall" gear? I am sure its a little pricey but I only want to do it once. Will I top out over 120 or more?

Your factory 901 trani will top you out slightly over 140mph.

The 930 box you can put whatsoever gearing you want in it.. Top speed is not your main concern.

Your main concern is the rpms' at 70mph..

H gear will help..

But that v8 box could push the 914 just fine at 1.5k rpms at 60mph... Finding a box that could do THAT would be awesome.


FYI "a little coin" is not something a 930 box is.. Were taking 6k-10k-and up... depending on how "all out" you go (lsd, gearing, diff.. exct..)

Hold on a little bit, were all trying to find a trani that will hold more hp, and provide very good gear ratio's..

901 box can hold 250-350hp depending on how you drive it.

Bob, the H gear that was sold was
A: used
B: had at least 10 people try to buy it at 200
c: tends to go for 500+

The solution that I mentioned was an audi box that should hold 400hp no problem, but the gear ratio's are very attractive. Also has LSD avalible for it for a decent price to..

Dont have the links for that, but someone does.

Hey Andyrew,
what kind of set up do you have in your 901?

Ian in Iraq

Contact Brad Mayeur, 914 LTD. Inc. 309.694.1797 He has "H" gears and can complete the install. Pretty easy to ship him your tranaxle.

He has my transaxle and is just completing the install of an "HB" and and moving the other gears around for a more even spacing. New syncro's , etc.

Hi Ian,

I have a 930 box attached to a 500HP LS6. I use stock 1973 (early 911) driveshafts...I'm told they are stronger than saya 86 911 driveshaft. Maybe the other guys have more info on this. All I can say is that my 1973 driveshafts are holding up fine with 475 ft lbs of tq. I had some spacers machined up to fill in the gap although I should have just taken an old pair C/V apart and used the C/V hub as a spacer. They are the perfect width.

As far as gearing goes for the 930, you'll be plenty happy w/ the stock ratios. With 25" tires...running 7000 RPM...in a vacuum...you'd be hauling ass @ 197 MPH! So I think you won't have to regear it with taller gears. You'd spend a small fortune regearing one of these boxes. Here's the math... 1987 930 4 speed STD 4th gear ratio = .625 STD final drive ratio = 4.222 Ring & pinion = 9:38 Equation... RPM X tire diameter X 0.002975 divided by gear ratio X final drive = MPH So determining top speed in 4th gear @ 7,000 RPM w/ 25" tires is as follows: 7000RPM X 25" X 0.002975 DIVIDED by .625 X 4.222 = 197.29 MPH. The gear ratios are so great for V-8 use...check this out. The following speeds will be attained @ 7,000 RPM w/ 25" tires. 1st = 56 MPH, 2nd = 97 MPH, 3rd = 141 MPH, 4th = 197 MPH. Of course if your engine only spins to 6,500 RPM everything slows down a bit. You're still going to be very fast.

Bill

hey hey ian,

there are 911 axles which require spacers only at the inward CV flanges and not at the swing arms. they are, i believe turbo carrera axles and can be identified by measuring the CV diameter, about 110mm's and the length of the splined and threaded section lengths.

the diameter of the splined section is identical to the stock 914 axles but with a different spline count.

threaded part is identical to 914.

warning: the CV is so large that it literally almost touches the inner swing arm. if it's dirty in there it will just touch. =-)

QUOTE (army dude @ Mar 16 2006, 09:58 PM)

Hey Andyrew, what kind of set up do you have in your 901? Ian in Iraq

Stock 901 box, Kennedy VW flywheels with stage 4 clutch/PP package. VERY light flywheel, spins faster than any v8 car I have seen. (good and bad thing)

Engine is a rebuilt 350, with smog heads and everything else done to it.. lol

The heads are my limiting factor.. Swapping them out with some good heads will give me 75-100 more hp..

But if I do that, my 901 will be toast!!

Im at 275rwt (or more, done a 'few' things to the car...) or 315 crank tq.

I drive it pretty easy, and my tires hook up. ran with 255's on the rear for a while.

Will be putting 285's with stickyer tires...


Im known as the CV killer.. have gone through 3... can swap in 30 mins with the tools in my trunk (I always carry a spare)

Yall need to resize your pic!!

Ifranview works good (download from their site.. search on google)

I'll do it this time...

Delete your post, and repost the words..
Your paragraphs and big picture make reading your text difficult..


Andrew

uhh, k. I'll try. not computer literate. sorry.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK. I know you guys have been over all this stuff at least 312 billion times and PLEASE forgive me for bringing all of it up again. I am sure that when I get back to the states my garage, if I can get one, will have postings ALL over the walls so I can read them again, and again, and again. I just found out I can save these!!

Having said all that I will follow the 930 path and realizing I will have plenty of money after my second tour over here try also to find a shop to put her in for me. Now what about this shifting problem with cables or a very small leperchan(sp) under there? I read that in another awesome tech blog here.

Hey Bill, do ya mind me contactin ya all the time for info since you have lots of 930 experience? No offense to anybody out there!

Hope yall have a great weekend!!


OOOHH, by the way, my dad drove my car from the hauler to the house and roasted 2nd and 3rd. I forgot to warn him and he is now restricted from driving my car till I'm home!

uhhh, cant delete. what am I doing wrong??

Look at the post. Top right of the big post box is three options (Delete) (Edit) (Quote)

Click delete..

Hey Andy, it worked!! WWOOHOO!! I lurnd sumtin!

That picture of you looks an awful lot like me That day was 143 degrees out. And I wasn't sweating a bit. Ok, off topic.

Are you still going to put on those big fenders on yo car?

Ian in Iraq

52 days till stateside
57 till I drive

Never mind Andyrew, I got you mixed up with someone else. My bad.

Ian in Iraq

QUOTE (army dude @ Mar 17 2006, 02:50 AM)

Never mind Andyrew, I got you mixed up with someone else. My bad.  :blink:  :headbang: Ian in Iraq

"yes". =-)

i'm just researching structural adhesives right now.

wanna' get 'er done right the first time.

but don't worry about me. just come home safe.

can't wait to see YOUR ride!

hey andyrew,
u runnin' 2" spacers in front?

Hey Ian,

Here's the deal...you keep your ass from being shot off...and I'll supply you with all the 930 data you'll need. I may have to cheat and speak with guys like byndbad914, mugs914, Mike P., Drivability, Ron S. and a few others to give you the straight skinny. Deal?

Regards,

Bill

QUOTE (wbergtho @ Mar 16 2006, 09:39 PM)

As far as gearing goes for the 930, you'll be plenty happy w/ the stock ratios. With 25" tires...running 7000 RPM...in a vacuum...you'd be hauling ass @ 197 MPH! So I think you won't have to regear it with taller gears. You'd spend a small fortune regearing one of these boxes. Here's the math... 1987 930 4 speed  STD 4th gear ratio = .625  STD final drive ratio  =  4.222  Ring & pinion = 9:38   Equation... RPM X tire diameter X 0.002975 divided by gear ratio X final drive = MPH   So determining top speed in 4th gear @ 7,000 RPM w/ 25" tires is as follows:  7000RPM X 25" X 0.002975 DIVIDED by .625 X 4.222 = 197.29 MPH. The gear ratios are so great for V-8 use...check this out. The following speeds will be attained @ 7,000 RPM w/ 25" tires. 1st = 56 MPH, 2nd = 97 MPH, 3rd = 141 MPH, 4th = 197 MPH. Of course if your engine only spins to 6,500 RPM everything slows down a bit. You're still going to be very fast. Bill

Holy crap, if that math is correct, explains why I was running Big Willow in 3rd gear. I have roughly 25" rear tires...

Bill, what are the gear ratios you have for 1-3?

I went down the straight, no roll cage in 4th at 5,000rpm just holding it there thinking that was probably around 120mph and "crazy" without a cage.

So, let's see: 5000rpm*25"tire*.002975/.625/4.222=141mph explains why the hood was warbling a bit... and if all that is correct, means this car is going to be seriously fast at the track as I could have ran the rpm much higher, but was just "sitting back" because I didn't want to push it.

BTW Ian, when you get back, you can ask me any questions you might have as well. I met "mugs914" at Joe Sharp's BBQ and he was really cool as well - and said he had the "off-the-shelf" cable shifter (the Patrick Motorsports one IIRC) and he said it shifts great (though he has a G50/52 which is a little different) so that might be a possibility for you.

Off to the chassis shop tomorrow to start fitting the engine and trans in the tubing

Hey Tim,

930 1st = 2.25 2nd = 1.304 3rd = .8929 And yes, when you get your car sorted out 100% and you take your hand of the handrail...your car will scare you. I would love to see what you are doing with this car. Tube frame, etc. Sounds extra cool! All the gear ratio and equation data comes directly from Patrick Motorsports.

Regards,

Bill

Thanx alot for the info. What a wealth of knowledge here. I would like to get the book but it will have to wait till I get home. We are not allowed to receive mail after next week and it usually takes 2 weeks to get mail here.

The info you have given makes my wheels spin even more with what I want to do. I wish this club was around back in the late 80s.

Thanx again and I will go back into stealth mode!

Ian in Iraq

52 days till home
59 days till driven time

QUOTE (Dr. Roger @ Mar 17 2006, 10:40 AM)

QUOTE (army dude @ Mar 17 2006, 02:50 AM) Never mind Andyrew, I got you mixed up with someone else. My bad.  :blink:  :headbang: Ian in Iraq "yes". =-) i'm just researching structural adhesives right now. wanna' get 'er done right the first time. but don't worry about me. just come home safe. can't wait to see YOUR ride! hey andyrew, u runnin' 2" spacers in front?

I was planning on it, but its too much.

I need about 2 1/4-1/8 for the rear.. and about 1.5-1.75 in the front.. 2in fits, but I cant turn the wheel

But thats boxster rear tire offset, 8.5in.. 255's... Dont know the offset.

I can't get through. I keep getting timed out. I will try to post one but I don't have the program yet to resize. Did I tell you I'm computer illiterate. I know medical issues but not computers. So here it goes...my cah......drum roll please.....and don't laugh.....

GOODY GOODY GOODY!!! The pics are the right size. These pics are from the PO and not washed or waxed. Here is the engine...... Not a bad platform to start with. Does anybody know any hting about this car?? Enjoy the view for now for when I start workin on it SHAZAM!

TBI
Smog heads
Smog exhaust
stock intake manifold


Looks to me like a smog engine!

GREAT way to start!!! You wont be blowing up trani's.. and everything you do to the car will make it faster!!

FYI I have TBI... Holley Marine programable TBI.. laptop programable.. hoo ya..

Looks good ian!

I'll add fairly recent (less than 2 years for that thermostat housing) renegade kit, and 5 lug brakes... seems like a solid start.

BJH

Thanks guys! I am going to go with rail fuel injection on the new motor by Holley oe Accell. I wan't better response and mileage and I and tired of using Holey dbl pumpers, Barry Grant and Demon. I know the new technology is awesome and computer progamable.

The PO said he only drove it to school and a few other places. Thats good, it wasn't beat upon then.

list of stuff to do

steel flares
916 rear
different front dam
930 trans
total resto
new interior
cage


and find a good job to support my addiction.

Ian in Iraq

51 days till stateside
58 days till I drive