Hey all. I got most of the front suspension back on but when I went to put the brake calipers on I noticed that they would not fit over the rotor AND lined up with caliper mounts. SO I removed my new rotors and compared them to the old and found that the rear offset from the rotor surface to the bearing seal surface is deepr on the original rotors.

I had to find this out after I already pressed in the ew bearing races

So how can this be? I have the old style strut tubes. When I talked with eric shea about getting my calipers we stated that I have "new" style calipers

So what did the factory do? Old strut tubes and new style brakes on a 72?

I guess I gotta order new rotor and pull out the races qand return the rotors.

Man I hate set backs

There was always this question and it looks like you're on the verge of solving the mystery.

You "do" have new style calipers, that's for sure (dual bleeders, fasteners that terminate in the machined nose half) and if you have a bolt at the bottom of your strut vs. a pin then you have the old style struts.

So... for those with crossover year cars, look for the new style caliper and make sure you order the later rotor with the centering ring. This also means that calipers and rotors are interchangable if done so as a 'set'.

For others out there reading this; Base your rotor purchase off your caliper not your strut.

Sorry you're having problems. You 'may' be able to tap (lightly) that race out and use it in the new rotor.

Late tubes require late calipers and rotors. Early ones require early calipers and rotors. There are NO other combinations, AFIK, so you better be sure where you put your money! The Cap'n

When you say tubes you mean struts?

I no longer believe that to be correct. I think they're interchangeable as long as you bring the rotor with the caliper -or- caliper with the rotor.

The system that was up and running on his car was new calipers/new rotors and old struts.

Unless! There's a weird one off mid-year strut that has the old style ball joint and uses the newstyle rotors and calipers.

QUOTE (Eric_Shea @ Mar 20 2006, 05:05 PM)

When you say tubes you mean struts? I no longer believe that to be correct. I think they're interchangeable as long as you bring the rotor with the caliper -or- caliper with the rotor. The system that was up and running on his car was new calipers/new rotors and old struts.

Unless further evidence pops up, I stand corrected. The Cap'n

I know what you're saying... that's what I thought too but; I've heard rumors to this and it looks to be the case. Looks like James is proving it out with his mid-year mobile.

James, fill us in when you get everything bolted together. I have your cores and those are new style as well... I just verified that against both old and new style offsets here.

Well I definitly have the "old style" strut housings which have the bolt on the bottom not hte pit and nut and I DO have the "new style" calipers as referenced by eric. I also ordered the "old style" rotors but did not check until assembly. My only hint before install was erics comment about the "new style" calipers. SO I guess either I have an "n ew style" spindle on the "old style" strut housing OR they are interchangeable if you switch the caliper and rotor at the same time.

From this pic you can see the "new style " calipers, and notice how close the rotor runs to the dust sheild. The "old style" rotors that I ordered sit about 1/2 inch farther away from the shield than this pic.

Gotta love the '72!
I cross my fingers with every part order, cause it may be the "late", it may be the "early", or it may be one of each

I've been enjoying all the suspension posts- keep up the good work!

Don't forget there was the interim rotor. IIRC it was late offset but without the hub-centric ring. Not sure if that was the only difference.

Here's something else for ya'll to smoke....A1 Cardone, when rebuilding calipers, will take a single bleeder (supposedly early) and drill/tap it for the second bleeder (which makes it look/function like a "late" caliper). I asked why and they didn't have an answer.

Couple of things:

James... you may be in for more fun. Take what Dave said and look at your later style rotor that's in the picture above. "No Centering Ring" (that I can see from the picture).

Regarding the A1 boys; Slits mentioned that to me before which may explain some of what I call 'cross over' calipers. I've only seen them as rears but they have dual bleeders and through bolts. The bleeders didn't look like an afterthought though... if they did it, they did a good job. (also... the next time you start a line with "Here's something else for ya'll to smoke...." and you're located in the "California Mountains" I'll be expecting somthing a little better than a 'dual bleeder' story!)

So... if those are the rotors that Dave is discussing you have two options now:

1. Go to the nearest machine shop and have your centering ring machined off. We do that with the front 5-lug rotors for later cars.

2. Get yourself some nice 'later' wheels and never worry about it again.

(it will all be over soon...)

I have empi's so I don't think that the centering ring would be a problem.

Here are the wrong rotors that I got.

Back side.

from the info in my notes:

The factory changed the strut housing, ball joint, caliper and rotor at VIN 4722919032

if the VIN is after that, it's the same as a 73+... I've changed all of the front end pieces that are replaceable as maintenance and that has held true... basically the entire front end is a 73 except no sway bar... the U-tabs are there for the bar though...

I'll check my vin and get back to you

QUOTE (Eric_Shea @ Mar 20 2006, 07:08 PM)

You 'may' be able to tap (lightly) that race out and use it in the new rotor.

I did this when I ordered new rotors. The bearing set on the driver side was replaced about 1 year ago on the old rotor. I used a brass drift to remove the "good" bearing races which did not damage the races at all. Also used the drift to tap in the races on the new rotors.

On the other rotor I purchased new bearings from my local NAPA store.

Spoke

QUOTE

I'll check my vin and get back to you

I don't think that matters. From what I see here, they'll probably list your car as the 'new' version. It has new calipers and hence new rotors. From what I can see, there is no change in the spindle over the years, just the bottom where the ball joint attaches. This follows what we've seen to be SOP at the factory... use what you've got until it runs out.

This was my initial post about solving the crossover-car mystery. I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's solved:

You can interchange calipers and rotors 'only' if done together. New style calipers must have new style rotors. The strut is irrelevant.

One more thing... the ball joint in your blog is "new style". This doesn't jive with your struts.

Here's a blog pic that shows all:

New Caliper
Old Strut
New A-Arm

Now I'm concerned about the ball joint.

Forgot the pic...

I ordered the "old style" ball joint so if it is the wrong one then pelican screwed up.

I have the front end bolted together and I have had no problems yet.... but I haven't even had the wheels on yet.

I bet when a DAPPO not the PO swapped the motor for the 75 2.0 they swapped a bunch of parts!!!!

Now I'm really getting pissed. I Might have been lied too or maybe the PO was lied to about the true nature of the car.

Now what is the difference between a new and old A-arm.
There was a slight difference in the ball joint mount area of the A-arm that I got fom Mueller is there any issue with the A-arm? The ball joint bolted up no problem to the A-arm and the strut.

Eric how can you tell if it is a new a-arm from that pic?????

I don't see anything that would designate old vs. new.

Oh the A-arm from mueller had the ball joint aligner "cut out" of the flange where my originals had a tab welded to the flange.

I don't think there's any cause for alarm. I think this is a true cross-over car. The new a-arms do have that ball joint alignment tab set-up a little different (someone here can explain better than I). What I meant was the later a-arms tend to have the u-tabs welded on them regardless...

Now, on to the ball joint. If this is your ball joint, I'd say it's the new style with the notch for the 'pin' (there is a notch there right? ). I'd say someone sent you the wrong part if you ordered the old style...

On my strut housing the bolt goes through the housing and thread into the other side of the pinch joint. If there was not a notch then the bolt would not go through. When I put the strut housing onto the ball joint I had to make sure that I lined up the notch in the ball joint. On one it lined up easy on the other it took 2 tries but the bolt WOULD NOT go through unless the notch was there.

So are you saying that on the old style ball joints there is no notch????

Then how does the ball joint stay attached? just with the clamping force of the pinch joint? I wouldn't trust that at all. At least if the clamping bolt oosened the strut wouldn't just pop out on full suspension extension.

Does anyone have a pic of the old and new styles to compare?

Here's a pic that describes the interference that requires the notch:

I'm going to defer.

I don't have any old style struts around here anymore. The ones I had, had a straight shaft on the ball joint and they pinched... but, I'm getting old. That may have been a very early style or it may have been a hemp induced flash back.

The new ones I have have the notch but the notch is a "V" shape and a V-Shaped pin goes in there where you have that bolt.

Maybe the Cap'n can weigh in here...

Eric,
Thanks for your insights. It's good to get these kind of comments that challenge your thinking so you don't get cocky and make mistakes. Hopefully I won't kill myself when I finally get it back on the road

The notch in the ball joint is round not "V" shaped so I'm now fairly comfortable that the ball joint is correct. If it was a new style it would have a V notch.

The "old style" ball joints on my '70 have a round notch in the shaft just like the one shown in the picture above. The pinch bolt must be placed in the strut after the ball joint is inserted.

If this is the system you have I would suggest getting new bolts when you put it together because there will probably be pressure from the ball joint on the bolt and it will trash the threads. Just make sure it is the 10.9 hardness like the stock one.

Hope this helps,

Humor me guys... did an early 911 ball joint have a straight shaft? Or am I just ?

The 914 uses the 911 ball joint if that helps.

Wonderboy needs to define what "early" is. '65 - '69 used a completely different style.

It's "Boy Wonder" smartass

I had a 66 that was made in 65.

George... read through this.

See the picture in post #21? It shows the split strut with the later caliper.