my co-worker has been nagging me to find a 944 over a 914....
i told him that the 914 is a much better handling car,
but he's saying that the 944, being 'newer' is more reliable and is 'more of a chick magnet'

i think he's wrong.... but i have nothing to back it up....

let's hear the pro's and the con's of each

It's a water pumper.....geez. If he doesn't understand THAT then get a new friend....

Not to mention...the engine is in the wrong place.....not to mention it has FOUR seats.....not to mention it's REALLY an Audi.....

944 chick magnet

Very simular cars.... also, very different.

914 is a summers car, work on it every weekend. do whatever you want to the car, no fear of smog.

944 is a daily drivers car, BIG BIG BIG trunk space. Can hold 4 hoosier tires and appropriate gear, or 2 sheets of plywood, 500lbs of concrete, 1000 lbs of bricks, full garden of flowers... Much smoother transmision.. 4 seats.. a/c.... ect.
There quick, they have predictable handling, and have decent brakes.

944 turbo? everything just said, FAST mo fo, handles amazingly, stops on a dime.

but if the timing belt goes, your screwed.. Repairs are NOT cheap and upkeep can be hard. Complicated to work on if you dont know what your doing.

914 has... unlimited possibilies... open your wallet and do what you want to the car. Or they are fun to drive stock.. Great second car.

We have 2 944 turbo's and a 914 v8.

I drive one 944 turbo daily... I would recomend it.

drive them both and make your own decision... there really different cars.

oh, a 944 turbo is a track monster
and a 914 is an autox killer.

What Andy said! I've had 2 944's a 924 that I did a sh-t load of werk to and probably 8 914's they are all fun! I still have 1 944 that is currently being stripped to bare metal to repaint 1 914 on jackstands and 2 more awaiting jack stands. As for the repairs on a 944 it isn't all that bad if you have some mechanical knowledge and the right tools $$ I did a head job for a customer who had the timing belt snap, 7 bent valves later he had a 2800.00 bill. 944's are the best road car I've driven other than 928

Everytime he changes his water pump, you could practically buy another 914.

My first Porsche was a 944S2. It sold me on Porsche. Very nice. Bought it from a co-worker who didn't know it was a special model for $3500 and sold it a year later for $12000. All I did was put on some tires and drive it.

The Turbo and the S2 are incredible cars. They have a chance of being as coveted as the 914 someday.

The 944 is sexy. I think perhaps even sexier than the 911. The 914 is cute. Andy is right about the 944 on a track and a 914 on an autocross course. Watching a 944 on an autocross course I almost feel bad for the driver. It is not made to turn that quick. It has longer legs and likes higher speeds. The 914 can go to any autocross anywhere in the country and come out with one of the top times of the day.

As for arguments like it has its engine in the wrong place and, its a water pumper or, its an Audi, I am reminded of something my Dad used to say about the girls who weren't quite as pretty. "I wouldn't kick her out of bed for eating crackers". I doubt that even the guys with these arguments would pass a chance to own an S2 or a Turbo.

You have to ask yourself, do I have extra garage space and four jackstands. If so, buy the 914

The guy never mentioned a 944 turbo or an S model....all he ever said was 944. The 924 and the 944 base models would have to improve to suck.....

Just like a run of the mill 1970 1.7 914 sucks....but less so.

QUOTE (new914fan @ Mar 25 2006, 03:44 PM)

and is 'more of a chick magnet'

If he needs a cool car to pick up chicks, then his advice is worthless.

I think the 914 is just a great all around fun car. Also, it's very unique, you don't seen many around, which is nice in these days where most new cars look the same.

914 is way more of a hick magnet than a 944. Oh you said chick magnet.

QUOTE (blitZ @ Mar 25 2006, 04:47 PM)

QUOTE (new914fan @ Mar 25 2006, 03:44 PM) and is 'more of a chick magnet' If he needs a cool car to pick up chicks, then his advice is worthless. I think the 914 is just a great all around fun car. Also, it's very unique, you don't seen many around, which is nice in these days where most new cars look the same.

I always like seeing a 914 on the road. I makes my day.

I ain't no pro but if I were to design a car, it would be like a 914 and no other car including another Porsche. If your heart is good and your mind is right, then you will get the right girls. If the girls just want you for your car then your asking for trouble. One guy told me he and his brother are having a chic contest to see which one will get the most girls in bed in one month. The record is 28 and they both are members of that FriendFinders.com. The moral of the story is, I guess they both wanna die. Get a 914 and LIVE!

funny, my buddy and I were talking about this today. He is all into getting a 944. He digs the 914, but its a little too much for him to take on right now.

he wants something a bit more reliable, modern, etc....and thus the 944

QUOTE (drewvw @ Mar 25 2006, 05:47 PM)

funny, my buddy and I were talking about this today. He is all into getting a 944. He digs the 914, but its a little too much for him to take on right now. he wants something a bit more reliable, modern, etc....and thus the 944

914's are werse for repairs only in the body dept. 944's suffer from the same cheap ass repairs and abuse from P.O.S. owners that couldn't afford a 911 or 928. I've got one sitting here right now the dumb ass cut the spare tire well out of trying to get the tranny out not to mention the wiring harness that has 5, yes 5, toggle switches spliced into it Made for a nice cheap parts car though

QUOTE ("*" @ Mar 25 2006, 04:37 PM)

The guy never mentioned a 944 turbo or an S model....all he ever said was 944. The 924 and the 944 base models would have to improve to suck..... Just like a run of the mill 1970 1.7 914 sucks....but less so.

I agree but you'll notice I never mentioned the 924 or 944 base models either...

QUOTE (new914fan @ Mar 25 2006, 03:44 PM)

my co-worker has been nagging me to find a 944 over a 914.... i told him that the 914 is a much better handling car, but he's saying that the 944, being 'newer' is more reliable and is 'more of a chick magnet' i think he's wrong.... but i have nothing to back it up.... let's hear the pro's and the con's of each

2 words - smog check.

Teeners are cool. 944's are...well.....functional. If you're not gonna get a 914, get a 911. It'll still be fun to drive.

To further dig myself in a hole.....there is a lesser range in value and performance between the 914 base model and the top of the line....the 2.0...both in the 4 cylinder and 6 were only 20-25hp different.....

Not so with the 944....from the factory the turbo model were leaps and bounds ahead of the base model. The 944 Turbo was competing against the 928 in terms of entry level.....Porsche allowed the 944 some testosterone.

What did they give the 914/6? A detuned T motor from the previous year.....

The/4 got a 411 (station wagon) motor...

As to NOW....unless it was a turbo I wouldn't touch one.

QUOTE (new914fan @ Mar 25 2006, 03:44 PM)

my co-worker has been nagging me to find a 944 over a 914.... i told him that the 914 is a much better handling car,

back in it's day, the 944 won some car magazine contest, c/d or r/t...

It first won the Import section,
then beat the American winner to claim:

Best Handling Car in the WORLD.

thanks for all the good advice

i like the comment about 944 being a car for folks too cheap to get a 911...
don't think my 5-8k budget is sufficient to find a 911...

but with 8k, i might be able to pick up a 914 AND a 944....

and get into serious debt problems trying to keep both on the road (not to mention insurance)

dilemma dilemma

what other cars would y'all recommend in this price range??

944's are teh ghey.

QUOTE (new914fan @ Mar 25 2006, 04:44 PM)

i told him that the 914 is a much better handling car, but he's saying that the 944, being 'newer' is more reliable and is 'more of a chick magnet'

Regarding the comment about handling......

depends what kind of handling use you are referring too.
on an autox course the 914 is better handling.
but on a race course there is plenty of proof that the 944 can be a bit better handling actually....

Look in production (stockish) type classes if you want evidence of that.
Look in PCA production class I
the 944 normally aspirated are classed with the 914 2.0L cars.

In fact the 944's walk all over the teeners!


not saying I would choose a 944 over a 914 because I love the teeners, but actually the 944 can out handle a teener if they are both relatively stock. That more modern suspension design is the key... In autoX I'm sure the 944's weight puts it at a disadvantage thou..

brant

If you're out to pick up chicks, have you considered a 928? The handling when applied to streetablilty is a-flipping-mazing! And they come with all of the features and attachments to make a good street car. And just sitting in the cockpit is an experiance in itself.

914s are great for racing, and toying with. And fairly cheap with recent appreciation in value.

944sare also cheap. Good for certain racing apps. And fast with more "modern" technologies.

But 928s are the "anti-camero." And just like the camero, it's great for the street and generally not good for the track. But it was the weisach rear axle which gives you an incredibly firm feeling going through the corners.

On a side note; this girl that I dated for a while was making fun of my car because it was orange. We were at the movies. On a preview for some other movie, there was a 928. She said that THAT was a real Porsche. She didn't know anything about 914s. Didn't know that my car had a VW engine. All she knew was that THAT was a "real" porsche and mine wasn't. I almost cried. Left her in the parking lot.

QUOTE (new914fan @ Mar 25 2006, 04:44 PM)

my co-worker, saying that the 944, being 'newer' is more reliable and is 'more of a chick magnet'

I'd imagine your co-worker would still have to pay for his dates even if he had a 944

chick magnet?!?!? what a tool

you have to drive a good example of each car in the same price region....many parts for a 944 cost a bunch more and the labor to install takes longer...one plus is that you might have a better chance finding a shop that'll work on the 944 than the 914 if you cannot do the work yourself......I let an ex-co-worker of mine drive my 914 once....totally different experance than his 944 Turbo and last I spoke to him, he was in the market for a 914 and selling the 944 turbo

QUOTE (Mueller @ Mar 25 2006, 09:18 PM)

QUOTE (new914fan @ Mar 25 2006, 04:44 PM) my co-worker, saying that the 944, being 'newer' is more reliable and is 'more of a chick magnet'

Like a 944, a primered '78 Camero can also be a "chick magnet."

Just an issue of how low yer willing to go on the scale.

A 914 is a fun toy.....A 944 is just another car....
My two cents.

QUOTE ("*" @ Mar 25 2006, 06:37 PM)

Just like a run of the mill 1970 1.7 914 sucks....but less so.

ha ha, ouch

I dunno Brant, I beg to differ...

First off, there;s nothing exceptionally "advanced" about the 944 suspension over the 914. Both have the same basic design. Strut front, trailing rear. Yes, the 944 may have improved geometry, but better design? Nah.

Why is a production 944 faster than a production teener? As far as I see it, it's pretty basic. One, is wheels. The 944 has room for more rubber, easilly. Two, much bigger brakes. And three, most obviously, is considerably more power. Yeah, the 944 carries about 500 more pounds. But it has more than 50 more hp. lbs/hp for a stock 914 is greater than 22. The same ratio for the wasserpumper is around 17.

The 944 is -easy- to drive at the limit, the high polar moment and 50/50 weight distribution makes it very docile at the limit. Especially compared to the low polar moment of the teener. But that low polar moment is just what we all know and love with the teener, and why (when skillfully piloted) the teener can out handle the 944.

Now make both cars weigh the same, equal underpinnings, and give them similar power plants, the 944 will be easier to drive at 95%, but that extra 5% is where the 914 will shine, and quite litterally walk away in the twisties...

Just my opinion. But the 944 is a GT car, the 914 is a Sports car.

-Josh2

Wrenching on a 914 is therapy for me. And you all know the smell inside the car. Kind of oil de toilet, that air-cooled, heat exchanger musk That's the Scheize!
Can't say much about a 944, almost bought a turbo cause it was a screaming deal, like the spit drive train thing too. In fact, as an enginering excersize they sound like great cars.
But I'm sure, no where near the character of a 914(which can be very reliable daily drivers)
And about picking up chicks, I like the way my 914 makes my penis look

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Mar 25 2006, 09:17 PM)

On a side note; this girl that I dated for a while was making fun of my car because it was orange. We were at the movies. On a preview for some other movie, there was a 928. She said that THAT was a real Porsche. She didn't know anything about 914s. Didn't know that my car had a VW engine. All she knew was that THAT was a "real" porsche and mine wasn't. I almost cried. Left her in the parking lot.

Good move, that was just plain cold of her.

QUOTE (Dave-O @ Mar 25 2006, 10:52 PM)

QUOTE ("*" @ Mar 25 2006, 06:37 PM) Just like a run of the mill 1970 1.7 914 sucks....but less so. ha ha, ouch

BTW....that was my first 914.

It went from rusty POS ....

to this....

QUOTE (new914fan @ Mar 25 2006, 03:44 PM)

my co-worker has been nagging me to find a 944 over a 914.... i told him that the 914 is a much better handling car, but he's saying that the 944, being 'newer' is more reliable and is 'more of a chick magnet'

Josh,

I agree if you Equalize the cars, equalize the weight and put 50hp into a 914 then yes the 914 would win...

but the original question seemed to be more about which was faster, and I interpreted it to mean 2 STOCK cars

luckily my PCA CR 2006 rule book arrived this week and I get to be a geek and quote actual numbers for each of the cars in stock configuration.

These are the stock factory published specifications and are what the PCA CR classes go by and here they are with years, hp, weight and pwr-wt.

944 83-85 2.5L 2779 143 19.43
944 85.5-87 2.5L 2779 147 18.90
944 1988 2844 158 18.00
924S 1987 2.5L 2734 147 18.60
924S 1988 2.5L 2734 158 17.30
944 1989 2V 2.7L 2966* 162 18.31
The * on the 89 includes a 100lb weight penalty.

Here are the 914 numbers that are also factory published and used to regulate the stock 914's:
914/6 1970-72 2.0L 2075 110 18.86
914/4 1973-76 2.0L 2139 91 23.51
914/4 all 1.7,1.8L 2139 72.5 29.50

These cars all run in Class "I" for stock wheel to wheel
(the 1.7,1.8 cars bump down a class actually)
PCA does not allow ANY Internal engine modification so these are truely stock motors, with some suspension upgrades allowed (sway bars, shocks, bushings, springs)

The 914's can run in J or I depending upon modifications.
I ran my 914 one class up to class "I" because I put big brakes on it.
I was allowed as a prepared car to do the following:
- 19mm Master cylinder
- 911 vented brakes
- 2 inches wider wheels (although the 944's are only allowed 1 inch wider for them to remain in the stock class)
- pounding out the fenders to accomodate the bigger tires
- substitute carbs for F.I. on my motor (which also allowed any venturi and jets)
- non standard ignition systems (electromotive!)
- slotting of suspension settings if no welding is used.

This has turned into a theisis. and I've long held a grudge about the way PCA makes the 914's run with the 944's. Still its very relevant for compairing stock 944's and stock 914's. The national results of 30+ races a year will show you that when 44's and 14's go head to head with stock weight, and stock motors on a track (not autox) The 944's usually finish in the top 5 positions and a 914 is doing good to finish 5th or 6th.

It might all come down to power-weight. It might have nothing to do with "modern suspension design" But when the 2 cars are not equalized and run in their relatively stock configuration the 944 is faster.

I still prefer 914's though
and on the street the 944 is so quiet and heavy it feels slower
where as the 914 is loud, stinky, and feels faster

brant

QUOTE

'more of a chick magnet'

I hate to break it to you but neither a 914 or a 944 will get you chicks. You better start saving for a 911 if you want a Porsche to do your pimping for you.

QUOTE (anthony @ Mar 26 2006, 12:58 PM)

QUOTE 'more of a chick magnet' I hate to break it to you but neither a 914 or a 944 will get you chicks. You better start saving for a 911 if you want a Porsche to do your pimping for you.

I don't think 911s get you chicks either.

QUOTE (olav @ Mar 26 2006, 01:08 PM)

QUOTE (anthony @ Mar 26 2006, 12:58 PM) QUOTE 'more of a chick magnet' I hate to break it to you but neither a 914 or a 944 will get you chicks. You better start saving for a 911 if you want a Porsche to do your pimping for you. I don't think 911s get you chicks either.

we should ask Howie and see if it's working for him

QUOTE (Dave-O @ Mar 25 2006, 09:52 PM)

QUOTE ("*" @ Mar 25 2006, 06:37 PM) Just like a run of the mill 1970 1.7 914 sucks....but less so. ha ha, ouch

double ouch

If you want a 944, go late, make sure it has front and rear sways (I think they all did post-85½) or go Turbo.

Owning both (with the same entry price: $500), I can compare the two cars like this.

Porsche 914 = $^2
Porsche 944 = $^8

Think of cost of ownership on one in early 911 land -- minus the cost for a full restoration.

Plus if that timing belt breaks, $KA$-$CHING$..

Other than that, my 914 with added sways handles better than my boner-stock 944. The 944 does handle INCREDIBLY well. When it comes to upgrading and modifying the suspension (monoballs, rear coilovers, etc) the 944 is already a pretty rigid car and the costs to upgrade the suspension are that of a Carerra (about).

Both are incredibly fun. Although the 914 would be more of a weekend car, 944 COULD be more reliable (mine isn't) as it has creature comforts as well. Early 944s though... you'll get outrun by Minivans and Acuras all day long :\ Go late (post 88) for the extra HP and suspension.

It costs about double in a 944 for performance and upgrades...

I think dad has somewhere near 20k in his 944 turbo race car(including car), full coil overs front and rear, 450lbs front 350 rear, big sway bars, QA1 shocks on the rear, koni yellows front, roll bar, 5 point harnesses, racing seats, f/g hood and nose piece, racing pads, LSD trani, 2.5in adjustable exhaust, larger t3/to4 turbo larger injectors, MAF, alcohol/water injection, Piggy back fuel management system, hoosier road tires... im missing some stuff..

And I have somewhere near 10k into my car (including car), Coil overs on the rear, 275lb springs, koni yellows rear, reds front, 911 front struts, A calipers, Racing pads, vented rotors front and rear, 19mm m/c, Nascar front sway bar, v8 conversion (I wont even go into the engine... lol), HPH flares front and rear, fiberglass front and rear bumpers, harness bar, 5 point harnesses, momo steering wheel, engman long kit, Rennshifter, seam welded rear suspension, couple of tubes for reinforcement, racing seats, and also, hoosier or kumho 710 tires.

All in all, we really have done the same stuff to our cars, but I have spent about half what he has, and our cars would probably be the same on the track, if we had the same power to weight...

I was driving a 944 a few years back and while sitting at a stop light idling, the timing belt broke with only 15k on it, everything done right etc. I made a phone call and sold the car right there on the street. Guy came and picked it up, gave me the cash. Haven't owned one since.

Poor, poor timing belt system design. They never really fixed it either, even with the 87' and later models.

QUOTE (Root_Werks @ Mar 27 2006, 08:42 AM)

I was driving a 944 a few years back and while sitting at a stop light idling, the timing belt broke with only 15k on it, everything done right etc. I made a phone call and sold the car right there on the street. Guy came and picked it up, gave me the cash. Haven't owned one since. Poor, poor timing belt system design. They never really fixed it either, even with the 87' and later models.

Yeah... Imagine a later 928... TWO timing belts.

your $3k head job turns into a $6k head job.

The only major drawback to the 944 is that timing belt. But if you have a turbo S or an S2, it is worth the money to fix. And if you do most of the disassembly yourself, you can save quite a bit of cash.

QUOTE (Brando @ Mar 26 2006, 03:15 PM)

Plus if that timing belt breaks, $KA$-$CHING$..

I am in the middle of fixing the carnage of a broken T-Belt on my S2. Thats ($KA$-$CHING$..)x2 since I have 16 valves. I will get it done for less than $1300 but thats using second hand valves and doing all the work myself. (except the head stuff). Last year I put a clutch in it. That was about $1000 in parts done right (I replaced EVERYTHING). Plus, 20 hours in labor to get the job done.

Its a fun car, but honestly my 914 was funner. My S2 has around 210hp, the 1.7l 914 I used to own had what 75hp at best? I always enjoyed the 914 more, it was more inspiring. Now I need to finish the S2 work so I can get my new 914 in the garage.

I decided to use an image from todays sports news to express a non logical opinion on this subject: