I know that in the 911 community, grey market cars generally have less value than US spec autos. I don't see them too often in the 914 community, but i was looking over a nice black 914 from socal on OC craigslist, but it appears to be a grey market car. Does that make it less valuable?

sorry if posting in the wrong spot, but i thought those who are looking to buy/sell would have the best insights...

I don't see a grey market 914 as being any big deal, especially if it has been registered in the US before. For the most part there is no smog check and no inspection in CA. Now say a 1980 930, that might be a PITA every time it comes up for Smog Check. But really that would be the only reason for lower value. Someone looking for an early turbo may choose another car that doesn't come with an anual hassel, thus the seller lowers the price.

914s are so old now, the only thing that really matters is the current condition of the car.

In fact, for a 914, being a Euro car would make it kinda cool.

(Assuming you don't need to get it smogged where you live, e.g., a grey market '76 in California could be a major problem).

should not make a difference - just make sure it is a car that is smog exepted -

Exactly what constitutes a grey market 914?? I have never seen one??
CCL

I would imagine that 914s were so low cost and so available here that there would be very little importing going on.


P.S. I'm moving this to the garage where it will get more activity.

"Grey market" would mean a non-US model that was privately imported into the US. Usually a European model.

So it would be kinda cool to see here, with the little differences (no sidemarkers, etc.).

Like McMark says, these cars weren't super high cost, so people probably didn't privately import them very often. But there probably are some here, imported from military guys, etc.

Grey market imports were biggest in the early to mid-80s. That was mainly because of the exchange rate and the strength of the US dollar at the time. Buying a Euro model in Germany with US dollars was cheap, you could spend money traveling to Germany to get the car, sending it back, getting it converted to US standards, and still come out ahead.

During that time there were also a lot of models that were not officially imported into the US (911 Turbo, M635, etc.)

And the Euro versions typically had more power.

Generally it's harder to sell a grey market used car, so it's value is lower. A lot of "conversion" shops sprung up (and disappeared) in the 80s and a lot of them did very shoddy conversion work - cobbled together exhausts and emissions, etc. I worked at a shop in the 80's and we saw lots of really bad greys. They were somewhat hard to work on, because you never really knew how or why they were modified.

Getting the car smogged can be an issue. Insurance can sometimes be an issue. Most buyers don't want to deal with it, so your pool of potential buyers is smaller.

Those are all still issues with, say, an '86 Mercedes. Not so much with an old 914.

I shouldn't post a link, as it probably means someone else will swoop this thing out from under me, but I still have to get buyoff from the wife on this anyway (6 months after picking up a 540i), but here's a link. Note the 914-VW-Porsche emblem on the back. I'm nowhere near the 914 expert that most of you are, but I haven't seen that on an American 914. I've heard that they were marketed as VW/Porsches in europe...

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/car/136852824.html

QUOTE (tommyg @ Mar 28 2006, 11:00 AM)

Note the 914-VW-Porsche emblem on the back.

you can buy that emblem for $35 and stick it on, it does not mean a single thing..kinda like an "R" decal the Honda guys use

QUOTE (Mueller @ Mar 28 2006, 11:02 AM)

QUOTE (tommyg @ Mar 28 2006, 11:00 AM) Note the 914-VW-Porsche emblem on the back. you can buy that emblem for $35 and stick it on, it does not mean a single thing..kinda like an "R" decal the Honda guys use

it is a nice looking car...it does have European traits such as the missing front fender lights ( I've removed mine and welded up the holes, cannot tell from the outside) and the "euro" turn signals...however, those are items that can be bought and installed very easily....

strange....front bumper looks like a US spec bumper with the "tits" removed...rear bumper almost looks like a very early bumper with the sharp inside corners.....

Euro front and rear lenses, Euro emblem, no front markers, and no PORSCHE lettering on the engine lid are Euro things.

Also, for a '74, no rear bumper blocks is Euro.

BUT, you can see holes from where the front bumper blocks were removed. So it has a US front bumper.

As said, all this stuff can be added/deleted, and lots of things happen to cars over 30 years, so can't tell for sure from the pics whether it is a US or Euro version. Would have to see it in person to get more clues.

But it's a pretty nice looking car!

QUOTE (tommyg @ Mar 28 2006, 10:00 AM)

I shouldn't post a link, as it probably means someone else will swoop this thing out from under me, but I still have to get buyoff from the wife on this anyway (6 months after picking up a 540i), but here's a link.  Note the 914-VW-Porsche emblem on the back.  I'm nowhere near the 914 expert that most of you are, but I haven't seen that on an American 914.  I've heard that they were marketed as VW/Porsches in europe... http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/car/136852824.html

At $8K I dont think you will have anyone from this board swooping in to buy that one. If I were you I'd want interior pictures, battery tray and engine compartment pictures, pictures of both trunks without carpets or to view the car in person before commiting 8 grand. The engine was recenly rebuilt - but I dont see mention of total miles on the car. ..and I dont think there is such thing as a no rust 914 unless the car has been stripped to the tub and repainted recently.

I once owned a '78 Mercedes that had been gray-market imported in 1991. It was converted to Federal specs (catalytic convertor, lights), and given a blessing by the BAR, with a sticker on the doorjamb. No problem with smog, no problem with registration, no problem with insurance. As far as everyone was concerned, it was a US car and was completely CA legal. I sold it within 3 hours of posting it on Craigslist, and had to turn away about a dozen people after the deal closed.

Ask seller if there is a Vin Tag on left windshield pillar, and what logo is on the Steering wheel horn button (should be Wolfsburg and not Porsche® )

thanks guys. his bottom line is $6,500 which seems more reasonable, and I have seen interior and trunk pics all of which seem nice and clean with no rust that I can see from them anyway.

downside is that i'm really not keen on a black car. they're beautiful, but near impossible to keep looking nice...

I used to think the same way. Swore I'd never own a black car.

Until I grudgingly bought a black Porsche (couldn't pass up the deal and it was EXACTLY what I was looking for, other than the color).

Now I love it! Even bought another black one!

California car duster, detail spray and microfiber cloths - my new best friends!

QUOTE (tommyg @ Mar 28 2006, 03:57 PM)

thanks guys. his bottom line is $6,500 which seems more reasonable, and I have seen interior and trunk pics all of which seem nice and clean with no rust that I can see from them anyway. downside is that i'm really not keen on a black car. they're beautiful, but near impossible to keep looking nice...

I have a black 911 ....I used to hate washing it, now with the Mr.Clean Dryless car wash system it's much nicer to own and I don't mind washing the car....

QUOTE (tommyg @ Mar 28 2006, 02:57 PM)

thanks guys.  his bottom line is $6,500 which seems more reasonable, and I have seen interior and trunk pics all of which seem nice and clean with no rust that I can see from them anyway. downside is that i'm really not keen on a black car.  they're beautiful, but near impossible to keep looking nice...

Be careful $6500 is in swooping range. Looks like a nice car for that price if mechanicals are all refreshed.

QUOTE (914-8 @ Mar 28 2006, 10:18 AM)

BUT, you can see holes from where the front bumper blocks were removed.  So it has a US front bumper.

i *think* the euro cars had the holes for the tits, but they were plugged with chrome caps ...

more clues would be no fasten seatbelts sign, euro airmixture dash controls, a real kick would be the original german "Fahrzeugbrief" ...
i have only seen one 914 here in the US that had the original german Fahrzeugbrief, and that car was an original 914-6 m471 car ...
Andy

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Mar 28 2006, 04:27 PM)

"Fahrzeugbrief" ...

O.K. I'll bite...

Andy what the heck are you talking about?


John

Yeah, $6,500 is swooping range, but I'd rather see it go to someone from this site than get snatched up elsewhere. I still haven't sold the better half yet on the idea...

The Diablo region PCA has a breakfast every Sat. in San Ramon (or is that Danville??) a few 914 guys show up....once in a blue moon I'll make the trek....there are a few other 914 people in WC as well.

that's great to know. I've been scoping out 914's for a little while now, just yet to take the plunge. Used to be a 911 guy (and likely will again someday), but I love the price/value of the 914 for a weekend car, and i've always been a huge fan of cars with targa tops. Spending $40k on a used 911 is not an option now that I've got a family.

I keep my eyes open for a good deal to get in the 914 game. I'm sure I'll bite on something in the next year, but just waiting for the exact right car to come my way...

Of course I have to talk myself out of looking for a -6, as that would be a nice collectible 14 to own...

I still may make the trek down to SoCal to check this thing out. I bought my BMW down there, I think prices in general are at least a little cheaper than NorCal...

QUOTE (Flat VW @ Mar 28 2006, 04:33 PM)

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Mar 28 2006, 04:27 PM) "Fahrzeugbrief" ... O.K. I'll bite... Andy what the heck are you talking about? John

QUOTE (Flat VW @ Mar 28 2006, 03:33 PM)

Andy what the heck are you talking about?

each new car sold in germany comes with a factory supplied "pamphlet" that has all sorts of information about the car, all the TÜV requirements etc. etc. etc.
kind of like a pink slip, but MUCH MUCH more detailed. usually several pages long.
without the "Fahrzeugbrief" you don't own the car ...

the period correct Fahrzeugbrief for the 914 would be about DIN A5 in size, brown/greyish thicker stock cover with black print and white/brownish pages with black print inside.
probably about 10 pages long ...

see example below ...
Andy


cover:

inside ...

more inside ...

Interesting, thanks for your reply,


John

Also if it is a Euro it should have a metric speedo....KPH vs MPH............

From reading what Anderson has to say about grey-market cars, the main reasons for them being worth less are: "Federalization" hassles (shoddy work in some cases, smog hassles in others); parts hassles (try sourcing a Euro 911SC fuel distributor some time!), and quality. Evidently cars from Europe tend to be used very hard, and so a lot of the ones imported in the 80s have very serious "issues"...

There was a loophole in the import laws in the 80s that let anyone do a one-time importation of a non-US-spec vehicle, as long as some specific stuff was done to it to "Federalize" it. A lot of cars came in, because there were a number of European versions of various cars that were higher-performance than the US versions, and they could be had cheaply in many cases.

I would doubt very many 914s were imported, for reasons already stated. There were a ton of them already here, and most of the "Euro" parts were just a phone call away anyway. So there wasn't much incentive for them to be imported through the "grey market".

--DD

The only Euro model I've seen was a '71 with a Sportomatic at a dealer in Cincinnati.......but that was in '76.

My recollection is that it didn't have side markers or Porsche lettering on the engine lid. Also had a Wolfsburg insignia on the steering wheel and VW-Porsche 914 insignia on rear, as well as euro lenses.

Can you imagine a sporto 914/4? Only reason I took note of it was because I was driving a sporto 911E at the time.

QUOTE (GWN7 @ Mar 31 2006, 02:40 PM)

Also if it is a Euro it should have a metric speedo....KPH vs MPH............

Yeh, but those are readily available. I have 2 of them on the shelf.

QUOTE (Pat Garvey @ Apr 1 2006, 09:09 AM)

Can you imagine a sporto 914/4? Only reason I took note of it was because I was driving a sporto 911E at the time.

No, I can't. I was not aware of any Sporto fours (except for possibly a prototype running around Germany in the late 60s). I was under the impression that all of the Sportos (25 of them, plus one prototype!) were Sixes.

--DD