We have the worst drivers on the planet.

I have never been anywhere, including all of Asia, where they drive as bad.

You can complain about the LA traffic, but up here we have the traffic and nutty crazy drivers as well.

It is just getting real dangerous.

No signaling
No lane discipline
No courtesy
Drivers following to close
Drivers absolutely unaware of what is going on – talking on the cell phone, driving with one hand
Speeding up when you’re trying to merge
Drivers making stupid moves that leave you stunned
Drivers using their car as a weapon
Road rage and I mean serious road rage

Am I going crazy or are the Bay Area roads as bad as I think and getting worse?

No signals
Follow real close.
Cell phones

It's a jungle out there.

They are as bad as you think, I flashed a guy driving 55 in the fast lane on Saturday next to his 3 buddies in the other lanes, practicing their formation driving and the guy flipped out started slamming on his brakes and crazy shit, after I finally got past him he sped up to 85-90 and then dove back in front of me and slammed on his brakes again...made me wish I was armed....he kept screwing around like that for like 5 miles before I exited...what an ASSHOLE. The traffic in the bay area is why I quit sales 5 years ago, all the crap you said and more...guys reading the paper in commut traffic at 50mph, eating, shaving, mascara, beating the kids, apparently playing some video game.....and the beat goes on. And, mixed into this are the rice racers, too fast and too furious...lots of spoilers and shit and no driving talent...I won't be sorry to leave when I retire.

with all of the above ...

and i have had my share of foreign countries, bay area is the worst, hands down ...

makes paris or rome or bangkok look like a walk in the park ...
Andy

SoCal ain't so hot either, but ya gotta try New Jersey. Just about the highest insurance rates in the US, and for good reason.

Euro driving is mucho better. Except for Brussels

The most dangerous part of the a/x or track day is getting there.

We picked up that formula vee last year. Must have avoided 4-5 wrecks, saw a few and two seperate car fires.

I go to work late when I work in the Bay Area.



KT

QUOTE (Randal @ Mar 27 2006, 05:23 PM)

We have the worst drivers on the planet. I have never been anywhere, including all of Asia, where they drive as bad. You can complain about the LA traffic, but up here we have the traffic and nutty crazy drivers as well. It is just getting real dangerous. No signaling No lane discipline No courtesy Drivers following to close Drivers absolutely unaware of what is going on – talking on the cell phone, driving with one hand Speeding up when you’re trying to merge Drivers making stupid moves that leave you stunned Drivers using their car as a weapon Road rage and I mean serious road rage Am I going crazy or are the Bay Area roads as bad as I think and getting worse?

Sounds like you just summarized my morning commute here in Denver. couldn't have said it better myself. IDIOTS. EVERYWHERE. IN $50K+ VEHICLES.

Doesn't it take *some* common sense to find yourself in a position to afford this kind of vehicle, or does it all just leak out your ear when you step inside?

You boys ever drive in Miami?

Just as bad, but there you KNOW the guy in the other car is armed.

What makes it worse is that I would rate the bay area as 4 out of 5 stars in terms of required driving skill for the roads compared to other places I have lived. There are a lot of very poorly design merges, onramps/offramps, construction and poor maintenance. Take Central Expressway for example, I see a at least 1 or 2 rear end accidents a week on the onramps. People are afraid to merge with moving traffic (they look for 7-10 seconds of NO cars coming), so they stop. The guy behind them is accelerating to get onto the expressway and probably looking in the side view to see if there is oncoming traffic... WHAM. Just ask Dave Darling...

Then again, I doubt our traffic can even compare to Mexico, many South American countries, and many parts of Asia. Apparently the Phillipines are interesting according to coworkers.

for some reason, I feel a little insulted right now. People get mad here if you stop to take the time to DO all of those things you listed....just make your move and be done with it!

QUOTE (Randal @ Mar 27 2006, 05:23 PM)

You can complain about the LA traffic, but up here we have the traffic and nutty crazy drivers as well. It is just getting real dangerous.     No signaling No lane discipline No courtesy Drivers following to close Drivers absolutely unaware of what is going on – talking on the cell phone, driving with one hand Speeding up when you’re trying to merge Drivers making stupid moves that leave you stunned Drivers using their car as a weapon Road rage and I mean serious road rage

just getting crazy in the North Bay - man that list was developed in LA years ago There was a stint there last year alone where there was something like 3 or 4 freeway shootings in 2 months in LA!

I had a gun pointed at me for a similar instance to jimtab about a year ago - that sealed the deal for me to start looking for a job out of state. Just.. can't... wait.. to... move..

I was rolling 75 on the 405 freeway at 11pm and this jackass pulled right into my lane in front of me to "pass" another car - then by the time I react and slow down, he thinks I am riding his ass and brake checks me. I moved over two lanes, went around both cars, he speeds up to 85 to pace me, then I look over and he is pointing a gun at me. I hit the brakes, followed for a couple minutes to take the plate # and then trailed off. Call the CHP when I got home WITH A PLATE # and vehicle description and I never hear back.

F$%^ the police. They are damn near worthless sometimes. My buddy that is a cop couldn't believe the CHP didn't have an investigator call me back at minimum. 'Course, had I been shot, they would have shown up to clean up the mess and launch a full scale investigation since I was dead. But if you ain't dead or dying, the police have better things to do, like clean up a freeway mess where people are laying dead or dying.

I want out...

I have done a lot of driving in metro areas all over the US including the SF Bay Area. I have run into lots of really bad drivers everywhere. As far as Bay Area goes it seems like HWY 880 has every ricer racer wanta be within 50 miles. I have had Hondas pass me doing 100 mph + bouncing around on bad shocks swerving in and out of traffic. I commute 30,000 a year and have never really had a close call in LA or the SF Bay Area - that includes 10 years of daily trips over HWY 17. There are plenty of courteous drivers out there - its just easier to remember the idiots. One thing I have noticed is with advent of commuter lanes and hybrids people feel inclined to cross 4 lanes of fast moving traffic for the privledge to drive 55 in the commute lane. That stuff scares me.

One thing I can say about US compared to Europe is that many drivers in the US are asleep at the wheel. Whenever I return from Europe I feel like honking my horn to wake people up!

Shanghai has some of the worst drivers I have ever seen by far. Plenty of cell phone distracted, rude and incompent drivers. Its easy to see several accidents on a single trip across town during rush hour.

my favorite crazy driving anecdote is from st. petersburg russia. Two guys go screaming around a corner and over one of the many bridges in those little russian fiats (Ladas).

so they bash eachother, pull over, determine they got eachother about the same, and then go there separate ways....classic


dz

Sounds like Chicago also, only you are going 10 mph during rush hour

I haven't been to Atlanta since 1990, but that had to be the worst I ever drove in. Funny story (to me anyway) at the airport in Atalanta picking up my rental car. Asked for directions to my hotel and the Avis person explained the route I need to take and warned me of the Redneck 500? The look on my face must have been funny to her, "Oh you have never been to Atlanta? That is what we call XXX highway that goes around Atlanta" (XXX can't remember the name now). She was right, I'm going 85 mph in the far right lane getting passed by little old ladys flipping me off I was never so happy to get off a highway in my life. Next day I asked at the desk clerk for directions to an office for a meeting I had to attend, desk cleark says "get back on the Redneck highway and....." That was some FAST & CRAZY driving and that was 1990 YIKES!!!

QUOTE (itsa914 @ Mar 27 2006, 10:04 PM)

Sounds like Chicago also, only you are going 10 mph during rush hour  :screwy: I haven't been to Atlanta since 1990, but that had to be the worst I ever drove in. Funny story (to me anyway) at the airport in Atalanta picking up my rental car. Asked for directions to my hotel and the Avis person explained the route I need to take and warned me of the Redneck 500? The look on my face must have been funny to her, "Oh you have never been to Atlanta? That is what we call XXX highway that goes around Atlanta" (XXX can't remember the name now). She was right, I'm going 85 mph in the far right lane getting passed by little old ladys flipping me off  :WTF: I was never so happy to get off a highway in my life. Next day I asked at the desk clerk for directions to an office for a meeting I had to attend, desk cleark says "get back on the Redneck highway and....." That was some FAST & CRAZY driving and that was 1990 YIKES!!!

In Atlanta the major problem is that all of the roads (even the small ones) seem to be one way only This is especially true around GA Tech.

The other weird place I found for drivers was in Florence Italy. There, a green light means go, and a red light means go faster

FL was the same way. drove from orlando to daytona, was getting passed like standing still doin 80-85 in a kia.

QUOTE (jd74914 @ Mar 27 2006, 07:24 PM)

QUOTE (itsa914 @ Mar 27 2006, 10:04 PM) Sounds like Chicago also, only you are going 10 mph during rush hour  :screwy: I haven't been to Atlanta since 1990, but that had to be the worst I ever drove in. Funny story (to me anyway) at the airport in Atalanta picking up my rental car. Asked for directions to my hotel and the Avis person explained the route I need to take and warned me of the Redneck 500? The look on my face must have been funny to her, "Oh you have never been to Atlanta? That is what we call XXX highway that goes around Atlanta" (XXX can't remember the name now). She was right, I'm going 85 mph in the far right lane getting passed by little old ladys flipping me off  :WTF: I was never so happy to get off a highway in my life. Next day I asked at the desk clerk for directions to an office for a meeting I had to attend, desk cleark says "get back on the Redneck highway and....." That was some FAST & CRAZY driving and that was 1990 YIKES!!! In Atlanta the major problem is that all of the roads (even the small ones) seem to be one way only This is especially true around GA Tech. The other weird place I found for drivers was in Florence Italy. There, a green light means go, and a red light means go faster

Yeah, the other interesting thing about driving in Florence was some of the roads went into town in the morning(one way) and out of town at night ...fine if you're a local and know which ones, and when....

QUOTE (jd74914 @ Mar 27 2006, 07:24 PM)

The other weird place I found for drivers was in Florence Italy. There, a green light means go, and a red light means go faster

When I was twelve or so, we stayed in Florence overnight. The hotel didn't have any TV, so my brother and I just sat and watched traffic for about 2 hours. Great entertainment.

QUOTE (Cloudbuster @ Mar 28 2006, 12:28 AM)

QUOTE (jd74914 @ Mar 27 2006, 07:24 PM) The other weird place I found for drivers was in Florence Italy. There, a green light means go, and a red light means go faster When I was twelve or so, we stayed in Florence overnight. The hotel didn't have any TV, so my brother and I just sat and watched traffic for about 2 hours. Great entertainment.

Nice. . . we watched the local drug dealers and supplier barter all nite

I do remember the varying traffic roads, I don't quite get those things

OK, now I don't feel so bad about the idiots around here....does this sound reasonable?

QUOTE (Howard @ Mar 27 2006, 05:54 PM)

SoCal ain't so hot either, but ya gotta try New Jersey. Just about the highest insurance rates in the US, and for good reason. Euro driving is mucho better. Except for Brussels

yeah obvisouly you guys have not been to philly/jersey. christ..

ITSA914, . . . That would be I-285. And the Redneck 500 was just as bad back in the 70's and is worse now in ATL with 6 to 8 lanes going each way with more crazy kamikaze drivers.

BTW , I gather y'all have not driven lately in Memphis . With all the idiot , six toed inbred , from the shallow end of the gene pool drivers of all nationalities available to F#### things up. Life can be very dangersous and interesting during rush hour. Wish I had a Sherman Tank to drive to and from work.

And from what I heard from a buddy in Tuscon, itza a Hell of a lot worse down there.

QUOTE (jkeyzer @ Mar 27 2006, 06:13 PM)

What makes it worse is that I would rate the bay area as 4 out of 5 stars in terms of required driving skill for the roads compared to other places I have lived.  There are a lot of very poorly design merges, onramps/offramps, construction and poor maintenance.  Take Central Expressway for example, I see a at least 1 or 2 rear end accidents a week on the onramps.  People are afraid to merge with moving traffic (they look for 7-10 seconds of NO cars coming), so they stop.  The guy behind them is accelerating to get onto the expressway and probably looking in the side view to see if there is oncoming traffic...  WHAM.  Just ask Dave Darling... Then again, I doubt our traffic can even compare to Mexico, many South American countries, and many parts of Asia.  Apparently the Phillipines are interesting according to coworkers.

Central expressway is STUPID. It has way way to many on and off ramps. Some of them are fun, I love both of them from Fair oaks. East is blind but if you up to speed it's a very easy merge, West is just plain fun with the downhill ramp. I used to use that ramp as a test for the track car - see if I could hit 90 by the end. That "might" have been stupid. This is the on ramp that has a rear ender every other day because some moron slammed on the brakes instead of merging into traffic, no excuse at all even a VW van could be going the limit at the end of the ramp.

The first time I went to Germany I hope into a cab from the Munich airport and hand the driver the address of my hotel. We pull onto the Autobahn and he asks me "you like go fast?" I say sure - I swear I heard the throttle pedal hit the floor and this big ol' gas hog Mercedes starts hauling down the road. I saw 260 Kph at one point and the driver calmly says the car is getting old - it used to go 280 here! I could have slept during that ride, I felt totally safe, he drove very smooth and courtious the whole time.

I don't think 20% of the drivers here in the Bay Area could pass the German driving test (my friend failed 2 times.)

I take the Mathilda ramps every day and I am not fond of people who stop after the blind corner... I have been known to pass stopped cars getting onto Central, but really I should know better.

Another vote for Jersey drivers.

I thought Puerto Rico was the craziest driving experience I ever saw. No signals. Apparently no inspections as there were cars with no doors, smoking down the highway on 4 different rims. Chickens flying off trucks(just missed my rental car). All this on 6 lanes of traffic. After a few days, though, it became predictable. You knew who to stay away from.

No such luck with Jersey. I refuse to drive behind a car with Jersey plates as I know they will come up with some assanine move that I had previously thought unfathomable.

QUOTE (Howard @ Mar 27 2006, 08:54 PM)

Except for Brussels

That could probably be extended to other Belgian cities. Luik (Liege) was also a nightmare when I was there....

QUOTE (drewvw @ Mar 27 2006, 08:17 PM)

for some reason, I feel a little insulted right now.  People get mad here if you stop to take the time to DO all of those things you listed....just make your move and be done with it!

I knew you had to be from Boston when I read your response. Make sure you don't get caught on the inside of a rotoary as a visitor (ask me how I know)..

I'll be out there on Monday and leaving on Tuesday (meeting at Linux World Expo). If I had more time it would have been nice to have a get together out there.

Mike

After driving in Bay Area for 25 years, I find little relief in San Diego... as a matter of fact, it's WORSE because it DIFFERENT

so I'm not expecting:

- Every other vehicle is a 4x4 Pickup w/ Lift Kit so you can't see over it (land of the SAND RAT)
- They are driven as though they had the handling of a 914 (instantaneous lane changes etc)
- Driven as thought they weighed nothing, so when the 5500 pound pickup is on your ass, your fingers are crossed.........

- Penchant for people entering the boulevard from a driveway to ALWAY underestimate MY speed, and NEVER YIELD, So I'm on the brakes hard...

In Bay Area, the changes I've seen over the years are that as the cars become more CAPABLE (Honda's still have better handling than a '74 Buick), people take advantage of it and abuse it in kind. I'm sure this is happening all over the country also...

People seem to be driving with a very Heightened sense of DESPERATION.. almost as though their life DEPENDED on getting ahead of the traffic....... too many rats in a maze...

QUOTE (mikelsr @ Mar 28 2006, 07:23 AM)

QUOTE (drewvw @ Mar 27 2006, 08:17 PM) for some reason, I feel a little insulted right now.  People get mad here if you stop to take the time to DO all of those things you listed....just make your move and be done with it! I knew you had to be from Boston when I read your response. Make sure you don't get caught on the inside of a rotoary as a visitor (ask me how I know).. I'll be out there on Monday and leaving on Tuesday (meeting at Linux World Expo). If I had more time it would have been nice to have a get together out there. Mike

a few months ago, there is a rotary by my house and this woman with maryland plates got "caught" in the rotary. She must have got around 3 times while I was there. Couldn't figure out how to get out. It was hilarious


yeah that would have been cool, I won't be around this week however....

I'll tell you about Kuwait later

QUOTE (Brian Mifsud @ Mar 28 2006, 07:30 AM)

After driving in Bay Area for 25 years, I find little relief in San Diego... as a matter of fact, it's WORSE because it DIFFERENT so I'm not expecting: - Every other vehicle is a 4x4 Pickup w/ Lift Kit so you can't see over it (land of the SAND RAT) - They are driven as though they had the handling of a 914 (instantaneous lane changes etc) - Driven as thought they weighed nothing, so when the 5500 pound pickup is on your ass, your fingers are crossed......... - Penchant for people entering the boulevard from a driveway to ALWAY underestimate MY speed, and NEVER YIELD, So I'm on the brakes hard... In Bay Area, the changes I've seen over the years are that as the cars become more CAPABLE (Honda's still have better handling than a '74 Buick), people take advantage of it and abuse it in kind. I'm sure this is happening all over the country also... People seem to be driving with a very Heightened sense of DESPERATION.. almost as though their life DEPENDED on getting ahead of the traffic....... too many rats in a maze...

I also think NASCAR and the fast and furious bs has "taught" people to execute snap lane changes and "heroic" high risk manuvers....apparently in order to keep your "johnson" at full size...even the gals seem to be concerned....sometimes VERY aggressive....

I drive as little as possible these days. Mostly the bus and then just the weekends if any running around needs to be done.

Seattle area isn't any different it seems. Just a bunch of crazy people not paying attention and getting pissed the first chance they get.

QUOTE (drewvw @ Mar 28 2006, 10:41 AM)

a few months ago, there is a rotary by my house and this woman with maryland plates got "caught" in the rotary. She must have got around 3 times while I was there. Couldn't figure out how to get out. It was hilarious

Look, kids... Big Ben... Parliament...

QUOTE (zymurgist @ Mar 28 2006, 10:23 AM)

QUOTE (drewvw @ Mar 28 2006, 10:41 AM) a few months ago, there is a rotary by my house and this woman with maryland plates got "caught" in the rotary.  She must have got around 3 times while I was there.  Couldn't figure out how to get out.  It was hilarious Look, kids... Big Ben... Parliament...

It's pritty crazy down here in PR. Use of the shoulder as a lane in very common. theirs nothing quit like getting passed on the right like your standing still, when your in the right lane, and the other 2 lanes are clear
Thank God I have never seen a gun(I'd be on the next plane). But this is a place where getting shot won't even get the cops off their a$$es

Try North Dallas. Rush hour here is an adventure. You have Rednecks in huge Dually double cab pickups driving like they are Dale Earnhart and this is the last lap of the Daytona 500. Plus, they have shotguns in the gun rack, all loaded up and ready to go. Then you have the soccer moms in the Suburbans, Navigators, or worse the H2s who are not paying attention to anything but the cell phone and the "little darling" in the back seat screaming it's lungs out. You have the rice boys who think that every drive is an excuse to cross 6 lanes of traffic to make their exit. You have the yuppie women putting on makeup or separating their eyelashes with a safety pin.

Then, during the winter, throw in an icy road...... Mass carnage.....


But I have to say, the 405 in LA has it beat. I did that road at rush hour one time. NEVER AGAIN!! I will drive to Kansas City to go around the 405.

You've all described driving all over the world. It's all the same just about where ever you go. Living is more intense nowadays and the increase in the number of cars on the road has far outpaced the building of roads, mass stransit and other infrastructure. If you find yourself in the Peoples Republic of China remember one thing. Pedestrians have NO rights.
Cheers, Elliot

QUOTE

Try North Dallas. Rush hour here is an adventure

If you take any 100 drivers in Dallas and compare them to 100 drivers in the bay area, the Dallas drivers are going to be better. I'm not kidding.

Last December when I was in Dallas I couldn't believe how good the drivers were on the freeway, i.e., people weren't crazy nuts - like out here.

QUOTE (Randal @ Mar 27 2006, 09:23 PM)

We have the worst drivers on the planet. I have never been anywhere, including all of Asia, where they drive as bad. You can complain about the LA traffic, but up here we have the traffic and nutty crazy drivers as well. It is just getting real dangerous. No signaling No lane discipline No courtesy Drivers following to close Drivers absolutely unaware of what is going on – talking on the cell phone, driving with one hand Speeding up when you’re trying to merge Drivers making stupid moves that leave you stunned Drivers using their car as a weapon Road rage and I mean serious road rage Am I going crazy or are the Bay Area roads as bad as I think and getting worse?

I used to think this was just a Ohio brand of driving you discribed.
Now I'm convinced this is the new normal mode of driving anywhere in the US.

A couple of years ago, I left the Bay Area for a three week road tip to Yellowstone/Glaser parks.
Literally, the minute I hit Highway 80 on the return trip I was yelling "ASSHOLE" at somebody.
It seemed strange somehow. I guess I had fallen out of practice or something.

When merging I always remember a friend's quote . "Aim for the most expensive car."

QUOTE (Marty Yeoman @ Mar 28 2006, 01:29 PM)

A couple of years ago, I left the Bay Area for a three week road tip to Yellowstone/Glaser parks. Literally, the minute I hit Highway 80 on the return trip I was yelling "ASSHOLE" at somebody. It seemed strange somehow. I guess I had fallen out of practice or something. When merging I always remember a friend's quote . "Aim for the most expensive car."

Yep - 80 is start of asshole alley. Happens to me every time I come back from a trip to Oregon. The whole trip is smooth and people seem to be driving well - right up until I merge onto 80. Jerks everywhere and the speed jumps 10-15 MPH while the traffic density triples.