I’ve been thinking about this post for a while and Britt’s thread about IT got me going again.

Right now I’m at a point in my life where I feel like I’ve got to make a few decisions. I’m about half way through school and finding myself really unsure of what I want to do. I’m currently a journalism major and am finding that I am not as interested in doing what I thought I wanted to do. The jobs I had always dreamed of in TV are starting to disappear and the ones I’m left with are not ones that interest me. So I got thinking about what really does get me going.

The part of my life that interests me the most is cars. In working with my little 914 I’ve learned a lot. It really keeps me on my toes, and while I defiantly don’t know everything I have a passion to learn and that’s a lot of why I like it. Right now I’m getting a great experience with a board member in building a 3.0 SC motor. While it’s mostly me watching and holding things, I really love the detail and the intricacy of everything and figuring out how it all works I really enjoy the puzzle of it and piecing it all together.

So I turn to my favorite group of car people for advice. What would your guys’ advice be for turning this passion into a profession? I know it would be really hard to walk into a Porsche shop and ask for a job with no actual on the job experience or training. How would you guys go about getting into this world if you were in my situation?

Eric

When I was younger I too wanted to go into the Car Restoration Biz. You should have seen the look on my 8th grade guidance counselor's face when I told him in front of my parents that I wanted to restore old cars for a living: "Ummm, I don't have a profile for that..."

There are many people on this board who can speak about what it takes to get involved in that profession better than I can. Seems like one of those areas you kind of fall into though, unless you are really driven.

Maybe wait until you get out of school, try out a job or two and keep doing the car stuff on the side.

I am a firm believer that in life, the paths we take present themselves at opportune times. Enjoy the rest of college (for god's sake!!!) and give yourself some time to figure it out, cause you will.


Just my .02...more philisophical than job related I guess

Can't say that I know the best way to break into the mechanic's world. I would suggest however that you finish school and get your degree. Right or wrong, that degree will keep a lot of doors being slammed in your face, regardless of what you end up doing.

Good luck!

I considered not finishing college a few years ago, and I can't tell you how glad I am that I stayed and finished. If you are seriously interested in the automotive industry some schools have an automotive engineering program...

For me, there is a difference in working on cars for fun and working on cars for money or because I have to. I hate working on my daily driver and I hate working on my wifes truck.

I can't believe there aren't jobs in TV with so many channels and so many offbeat shows. How did that guy start the show "PINKS"? He had an idea, a couple of cameras, found 2 guys willing to bet their cars, now he has a cash cow. The guy that hosts Overhaulin' whatshisname Chris? He had to start somewhere. That show "Build or Bust" on speed, same thing. There are more shows on TV now about cars than ever before.

EDIT: Basically, sometimes (not always) Hobbies are better left as Hobbies.

Just being a mechanic in a shop is a great way to stay broke. It doesn't pay all that well. The restoration biz, however, can pay very well indeed, esp. if you own the shop.

Find a car restoration shop in a major city and offer yourself as an apprentice. You'll get very little money the first year, but it will teach you the basics and it will tell you if you want to keep doing this. Turning a hobby into a job can often kill the interest in the hobby. I used to be super into anything computer related. Now, 25 years later, I only do computer related things for work, or those car related things that involve computers, and it's pretty much been that way for the last 15 years. Computers are no longer a hobby. Cars are the hobby.

I expect the resto biz to continue to be lucrative for a very long time, as many cars will always be collectible even after they become undrivable on the street. I'm fully expecting that gasoline powered cars will be as common as a horse and buggy by the time anyone in school now reaches retirement age. However, there will still be plenty of cars in collections that need repair and restoration, and will depend on high-end shops that do highly labor intensive, small-volume work on them. The general auto repair biz, however, is going to get harder and harder to survive in outside the dealer networks.

Given your background, perhaps you need to look to auto journalism. That will also continue to be a decent field for a very long time. It's not high-paying, but the perks are pretty nice. Advertising and PR for car companies pays better, and still requires the ability to write and present.

Alternatively, drop the whole journalism thing, and head over to the Mechanical Engineering dept. If your school has a Formula SAE program, talk your way into it. If it doesn't, find a school that does.

Dude, I so feel you! I'm kinda in that position and I'm in the computer industry. Except I don't live in India (if you catch my drift)

My buddy was booted from Adidas. With some help and encouragement from me, he started his own VW Type 3 repair business. He has no professional background in auto mechanics, just his PASSION for the T3 automobile. No business loan or investers. Just a small, two car garage, a field for parts storage, and our own personal garages for auto work. Now we have a shop and a steady stream of cars -- who'da thunk the Pacific NW would have so many T3's?

His wife isn't the most understanding (but she has a job so the income did help) but he stuck to his guns and now is able to stand on his own two feet. We also buy junkers, cut 'em up if they're a basket case, and sell the parts to the east coast dudes because they have to deal with LOTS of rust (due to salted roads in the winter time). That is our biggest source of income. We also will 'slide' and work on the occational Bug or Bus, but that's pretty rare. Simple crap like brakes, tune-ups, etc. are your bread-n-butter so get used to it. But when you get a customer that wants a polished big-motor with powder coated tin and ceramic this-n-that, it makes it all worth it!!

Personally, I'd recommend that you include the VW bretheren if you decide to go this route. Any car with a Type 4 motor should be allowed into your shop, at least for engine work. There are a lot of Buses out there and they can keep you on your feet. Plus the fact that you're a "Porsche mechanic" adds to the boasting factor when people say, "Yeah, I have a Porsche mechanic fix my Bus' engine!" I'm serious. People are funny that way.

It's a huge and scary step. Do your research and see if there's enough work in Eugene/Springfield and surrounding region -- I figure U of O has enough granola stompers and we know how much they like the iconic Bus I know there is plenty of work in Portland -- heck, we get cars shipped to us from Washington! There's a car in the shop right now from Seattle and all the guy wants is a SIMPLE BRAKE JOB! But when you're good they will come. Back in the day when I was in college I would drive 4 hours back to home to have my VW mechanic work on my car (luckily, I eventually found a very good local mechanic). If you get good, particularly at engine builds, you could support the NW (look out McMark! )

I agree with the above - finish your degree.

Even if you decide to follow automotive pursiuts & never use it, you'll always have it to "fall back on". That's not a bad place to be, especially considering something over 65% of graduates end up working outside their field of major anyway. Once you do enter the workforce in whatever capacity, You'll find out that not having a BS/BA will slam many doors in your face no matter which way you finally end up going with a career.

Having a degree is worth the time, no matter where you go, & to a large part, it doesn't matter what it's in.

Trust me, it'll pay off in the end. Take your degree 1st.

Think about it hard...

Then change your mind.

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Mar 29 2006, 11:32 AM)

Think about it hard... Then change your mind.

I was waiting for him to chime in. A lot of zen in that answer.....

Working with your hands has a limited cieling on how much you can make.
It also has a timeline...when you get older you need more ibuprofen to go to work.

I would look at working your degree towards a future spot with either a car TV show, or a magazine...then you have the best of both worlds..

Become a contributing editor now for some of your favorite magazines, cover some of the car shows in your area,,,present a proffessional article to these magazines, and start making connections while you are still in school...

Rich

Agreed, get the degree. Change it if you want (eh, what's another year of being poor? ), just make sure you get it.

I know there's a demand for technical writers in the computer industry.

Finish college. It won't necessarily open doors, but it will prevent them from closing. You have a long time ahead of you (which will go by fast) so hurry up and take your time figuring things out. Heck, I'm gonna be a dad in a few months, and I'm still trying to decide what I want to be when I grow up.

Depending on how far along you are in your major, you may just want to stick with it. People often end up in different fields than they major in in school, but with a journalism degree, you should have well-honed, proven written communication skills. There are a lot of jobs/careers to which those skills can be applied. Also, consider taking some classes in technical writing. The suggestion about going into automotive journalism sounds like a great mix.

QUOTE (BigDBass @ Mar 29 2006, 12:49 PM)

Finish college. It won't necessary open doors, but it will prevent them from closing.

I completely agree. while I don't know what I want to do I'm almost 100% certain that I want to finish. In what major well thats kinda the big question here. Journalesm isn't really doing it for me, because i'm not a jounralist: i'm a video nerd. I love to play with and expand on video technology and from what i've heard the jobs focusing around this are dwindling. Looking at cars I guess I see something that I get the same if not a greater passion out of as playing with the video stuff.

So I guess more of what I'm asking is, how would you guys go about getting into this industry? I know I would like to do something like vw/porsche restor's but the field seems like one that you kind of have to be grandfathered into. Someone suggested that I could offer myself as an apprentiace for dirt cheap. This was my first idea of how to go about it but I wasn't sure if shops are interested in this kind of thing. What do you guys think? What steps would you take?

Eric

The only thing you can do is try. The worst that happens is a resto shop says no.

Certainly, while you're in school now, you can start taking courses to learn things like welding, metalworking, and basic engineering. Get a day job that pays the bills and start to restore something on your own time. Use that restored car as a tool to sell yourself to a restoration shop for work, or to prospective customers to set up your own shop.

You have to make this happen. There's no set career path, and there are a lot of ways to get there. Finish your journalism degree, then enroll in a vocational school to learn the shop skills. If you don't have the cash, get a job, save money, then start. Switch to an engineering major and get a car-related job right out of school with a car company. There's an auto manufacturer IN Oregon: they sell a US version of the Ariel Atom. Go talk to them. If you can convince them you're passionate enough, perhaps they'll offer you a job, or an internship.

Likie it or not, working on cars that aren't antiquesrequires substantial computer and electronics skills. The industry is hyurtinhg big time for qualified people who have those skills. Engine rebuilding at the shop level is becoming an uncommon thing. The engines are scary reliable, and often it's less expensive to just replace them. Back in the 70s, we used to have 3-4 911 engines undergoing overhauls at any given time. I doubt we've done 5 or 6 in the last 10 years. There are fewer early cars being used as daily drivers, and the cars we see now are in for electronic problems, services, and things like brakes and clutches. Each of those things is FAR more profitable than engine or transmission rebuilding, the "fun" stuff, and it's come to a point where the business plan for a real moneymaker of a shop doesn't allow for that kind of work. If you want to work on cars, go to UTI, take the full course, and go for it. BTW, I have a BA in art (practice) and was most of the way to an MFA before I got into this. Wish I had the training the young guys have. It would make life SOOOOO much easier! I still like what I do, but don't have anywhere near the retirement cushion many of my friends do, and that day is growing ever nearer. Whatever, GET YOUR DEGREE! The Cap'n

Turns out some of the guys I've met at PCA events write for 'Excellence' Magazine. Now there's an option to combine your degree with your passion...

I can relate to some of the comments above: I love working on the 914 but can't stand working on my daily driver. A signal to me that I should keep my hobby, my hobby.

QUOTE (race914 @ Mar 29 2006, 01:12 PM)

Turns out some of the guys I've met at PCA events write for 'Excellence' Magazine. Now there's an option to combine your degree with your passion...

The editor of Excellence is on this board, and visits regularly...

tough decision - but I will give you my BTDT story.

I started junior college right outta high school in 1989 to get a Mechanical Engineering Degree. Around 1991, Aerospace tanked here in SoCal and I was sorta dating a girl at that time and her dad worked in aerospace. He had lost his job, then he lost the house (because Aero was a huge influence here at that time, the housing market also began tanking so he couldn't sell his house for enough $ to cover the mortgage). Really sad deal. He was driving truck at one point just trying to put food on the table.

So, I said screw that noise and quit the engineering stuff and got my auto mechanics degree and started working as a mechanic around 94. Then, being somewhat smarter than you average bear, I knew being a manager and ultimately shop owner might be the best gig, so I got an AA in Small Business Management from the same jr college. Worked my way into manager positions, etc. Finally decided it was a hard living for not that much money compared to engineering. And engineering was on the rise by the end of the 90s. So I went back to school AGAIN and was cranking out 17 units a semester and working 40hrs/wk for about two years to "get er dun". I graduated and started a job at almost DOUBLE what I was making as a mechanic.

And I make more than many of my shop owner friends/acquaintances. The mechnic's life is a tough living and frankly my back is still a bit crappy from leaning over fenders and such, and I only did it for about 7-8yrs "professionally". Owning your own business is a whole other crazy dynamic with insane risk involved. BTDT too. And a big DITTO on the "hobbies aren't the best careers" comments - I didn't even want to change the oil in my own car at one point because I had done it all damn day.

That said, I am now going to be 35yrs old and make what most 28yr olds here do, but wouldn't trade it. I never intended to have kids, found a girl that doesn't either, so I didn't have a need for a family plan. I gained a ton of great "real-life" experience that has become invaluable to me as an engineer and a wanna-be racer.

My .02 - If you see yourself wanting to get married and start a family and have a nice house in the burbs with good schools and such, get a good degree and a good job. If you don't have a 10yr plan that includes that... man LIVE if you know what I mean. Screw the journalism for now and get a mechanic's helper job and go to school for an AS in auto mechanics if that appeals to you. Then, a few years down the road after you have "played that one out", maybe journalism will look better to you. Or something else. Hell, I could be diagnosed for career ADD at this point and I change my mind every 2-5yrs. I am already tired of engineering... and just finished my MBA in December.

Whatever the decision, make sure it includes getting at least a Bachelor's Degree in the end - that is becoming bare minimum for even a manager at a restaurant anymore. And remember that for many, it is really hard to go back to school if you stop going. I actually never quit going to school between 1989-2000. But I really enjoy learning, so I am a different bird in that respect.

edit - I echo the Cap'n - forgot to mention why mechanics was getting boring to me. All the "fun stuff" doesn't make any money. He is so right about that. Crate engines are killing some of my friends in the rebuilding biz. Machine shops all over are hurting because nobody resizes rods - they buy the Chinese H-beams for the same money. Blocks - just get a crate motor or buy an already machined one from the big 3s performance groups. Heads - buy aluminum already assembled and bolt on.

And I HATE, LOATHE - and whatever similar words are out there for hate - the whole fast and furious gay-ass ricer crap. And THAT is where the $ and work is these days frankly. For me, I love muscle cars and race cars, and a Honda or any FWD car will NEVER be a race car IMO. Even if they run 8s and 9s, it is just dumb to me. So, what I enjoy was becoming somewhat extinct from a career perspective.

QUOTE (jasons @ Mar 29 2006, 11:24 AM)

For me, there is a difference in working on cars for fun and working on cars for money or because I have to.  I hate working on my daily driver and I hate working on my wifes truck. I can't believe there aren't jobs in TV with so many channels and so many offbeat shows.  How did that guy start the show "PINKS"?  He had an idea, a couple of cameras, found 2 guys willing to bet their cars, now he has a cash cow.  The guy that hosts Overhaulin' whatshisname Chris?  He had to start somewhere.  That show "Build or Bust" on speed, same thing.  There are more shows on TV now about cars than ever before. EDIT: Basically, sometimes (not always) Hobbies are better left as Hobbies.

Nah, it wasn't the show. It was the fact he was able to attract SPONSORS. Advertising is the life blodd of a TV show. Why do you think there are countless hours of bass fishing on TV? Sure as hell isn't as exciting as lawnmower racing, but both get lots of hours on TV because they conviced the advertisers that there would be people watching the show.

Money talks, all the rest, walks...

As for a career in cars? I fully support anyone who wants to make their passion their livelihood. However... Finish school, get the degree, and figure out what end of the spectrum you want to be on. I have a number of very good friends whose careers are in the car world. Most of them started in some other profession and took their passion to meet their carrers. Not all of them have happy stories. One is an engineer and race car driver who went straight to being a mechanic. He's a good one. But he got totally burnt out doing the everyday repair cr*p, and dealing with fussy customers, and all that. He quit. Doesn't even want to change the oil in his own car...

Another good friend of mine went there a different route. Was always into cars, but got there by being a manager. He found his way into being the GM of a racetrack (Seattle International Raceway) around 20 years ago. Realised that there wasn't any money in it, and went into show biz. Sort of... Become GM of a film company, and stuck with that for quite a long time. Decided to try his hand back in the car world, and went through a few unseccessfull gos untill he formed his own performance shop. He does okay now, but to use his words, "It's almost impossible to make really good money in the car business. Why? Because EVERYONE wants to, and there will always be someone out there that's willing to do it for less than you will...".

The best way to do it? Find a niche market and make yourself the BEST. Ask Jake, he's swamped in work, and has what I would imagine a healthy looking set of books at the end of the year.

How do you get a million dollars in the car industry? Easy... Start with two million....

-Josh2

Electric cars seem to be finally coming on as a viable means of transport for some. Great opportunity to blend electrical engineering, IT and cars all in one. Developing technologies may allow a few private companies to emerge outside of the big automotive manufacturers as big successes. Specialty Electric cars seem to me to be a possible great business opportunity.

With aging boomer crowd hot rods will also continue to be popular. I spent some time with my dad recently in Grants Pass, OR and I was amazed how many guys in his hot rod club have full out workshops next to their homes. Some of these guys are making great livings doing custom rods. People are throwing around big money on these cars too. I saw a couple $75 K hotrods.

Dude,
Be glad you are in undergrad and thinking this. I am in med school and I can think of is cars, planes, helos, bikes, trucks, etc. Getting a degree usually sucks becasue of the breadth of knowledge you must digest. However, after you are done it is better in that ou can start to hone your own desires to a finish out of what you are given. It is like having a tool box with both SAE and metric tools that you must lug around for a given amount of time until you are allowed to only take what you need (the metric of course). Bust your ass, make some money, find your bliss and experience it.

I plan on maybe doing the doctor thing until it gets old and then settign up a specialty shop for 914 and my other interests. It could work.

I am a UTI graduate, a factory trained Porsche mechanic, and now work at a VW dealership full time. Let me assure you that it is VERY tough to make a living working on cars. Dealerships make money by keeping thier warrany cost down ( that is where your money usually comes from) and most all mechanics are straight commision. doing work on the side is all you can do to offset the financial beating a dealer mechanic gets.

QUOTE (jhadler @ Mar 29 2006, 01:52 PM)

QUOTE (jasons @ Mar 29 2006, 11:24 AM) For me, there is a difference in working on cars for fun and working on cars for money or because I have to.  I hate working on my daily driver and I hate working on my wifes truck. I can't believe there aren't jobs in TV with so many channels and so many offbeat shows.  How did that guy start the show "PINKS"?  He had an idea, a couple of cameras, found 2 guys willing to bet their cars, now he has a cash cow.  The guy that hosts Overhaulin' whatshisname Chris?  He had to start somewhere.  That show "Build or Bust" on speed, same thing.  There are more shows on TV now about cars than ever before. EDIT: Basically, sometimes (not always) Hobbies are better left as Hobbies. Nah, it wasn't the show. It was the fact he was able to attract SPONSORS. Advertising is the life blodd of a TV show. Why do you think there are countless hours of bass fishing on TV? Sure as hell isn't as exciting as lawnmower racing, but both get lots of hours on TV because they conviced the advertisers that there would be people watching the show.

Thats kind of a chicken/egg debate isn't it?

My point is, I believe there are more journalism opportunities in motorsports than ever before. There's practically a whole channel devoted to NASCAR alone.

QUOTE (warrenporsche @ Mar 29 2006, 03:20 PM)

I am a UTI graduate, a factory trained Porsche mechanic, and now work at a VW dealership full time. Let me assure you that it is VERY tough to  make a living working on cars. Dealerships make money by keeping thier warrany cost down ( that is where your money usually comes from) and most all mechanics are straight commision. doing work on the side is all you can do to offset the financial beating a dealer mechanic gets.

I worked the commission thing like so many others out there. Say it was 60/40 - YOU don't get the 60, the shop does. You get 40%. Oh yeah, and you have to buy all of your own tools with that 40% while you're at it. Then, you get paid by the job, so if you are good and fast like I was, you "bill" 60-80hrs per week but only work 40-50hrs. BUT, there are those days that you get a 1 hr job and a rusted bolt breaks off and you spend 3 hours digging that POS out. I had a 2 hr job one morning turn into a 10 hr day - that one still haunts my dreams to this day I also stayed away from dealerships - some horror stories to follow - but that came with some weeks that I did a lot of standing and didn't bill 40hrs because the work just wasn't there to be done.

I had a car project collecting dust because it was unfeasable to spend the money. Got a BSME, decent job, and finally building my race car.

Warren - I feel for you man! Dealership work is cut-throat, but unfortunately, somewhat stable compared to working for a smaller shop. Had one of these days yet - the transmission guy is dying because he doesn't have any drivetrain work coming in, but you have a good job going and a 2nd one waiting. FINALLY going to have a productive day and then as you finish the job, you realize the trans guy is under your 2nd car because "I gotta family to feed man". THEN, next time a trans oil change comes through he is busy, your slow, so you take the simple oil change and he comes after you with a wrench? Then you get fired for rearranging his dental work - with him still holding the wrench. Gotta friend with that story.

Another incident another friend from school had - he was the "brakes" guy and there was a factory recall on a switch IIRC - took 5-10 minutes to replace, but if you were doing the job for a customer it paid an hour minimum. Well, not for the mfr it doesn't. They literally wanted to pay him a negotiated rate of 10 minutes per and then he had to do all of them that came in. So he was losing his ass everytime he did one of those.

I am in a similar but somewhat different position. If all goes as planned, our house will sell in a timely manner and we will be moving to Istanbul within the next 4 or 5 months.

I will be at a crossroad as to what to do next. My options are: 1. Retire, which I know will get veeery boring after awhile. 2. Teach at one of the language institutes which I know will wear on my patience. Or, 3. Open a repair shop with my father in-law who has worked in or owned his own shop for over 50 years.

The delimma is that numbers 1 and 2 cost nothing, but, number 1 offers nothing in return and number 2 only offers a salary in exchange for a service (I am doing that now). Number 3 offers the most rewards because I can do something I like and hopefully offer some monetary return but, also requires the most financial investment.

I have a feeling the next 6 months are gonna be stressful.

The only thing I can offer is to stay in school and finish. You're too far into it to change course at this time and place in your life. It will give you some time to really evaluate your options which, may change in a year or two but you'll still have a solid footing should you need it.

I spent 20 years doing tune up and driveability, computer controls and electrical systems. Worked for G.M. dealers. I was always the top guy in the shop. Made between 50 and 80k but the work atmosphere is harsh and unforgiving. Almost all shops are set up to pay you per job (Flag hour) so you better be good or starve. The best thing that happened to me is a blue out my back. I thank God everyday for the fact I don't have to go back to doing that type of work.
Don't do it
If you do, one day in the future you will wish you had done something different..

QUOTE (drive-ability @ Mar 29 2006, 04:58 PM)

The best thing that happened to me is a blue out my back. I thank God everyday for the fact I don't have to go back to doing that type of work.

mix this with the whole IT thing that started this thread...

OFFICE SPACE

Y'all know what I'm talking about right?! The guy who want to kill himself but then backs out of the garage and gets T-boned, laid up in a wheel chair with head gear and saying it's the best thing that could have ever happened to him


Sorry about your back btw - I have a hard time sitting in one place for very long without having a dull numbness set in. Probably couldn't walk if I had done that work for 20yrs.

Some of my experience is a bit different, but I must echo most of what has been said here.

1. It (restoration) may be very enjoyable now, but when you must do it, and it must be done by Friday, or you won't eat, it changes your perspective.

2. Even if you never use a degree, you must have one. I have been very lucky without one, but also took classes over the past few years to get the info I needed to be successful. Regardless, if you don't have one, many jobs are just not open to you, even if you can do them. Without one, I will be limited as I get older. Just a fact of life.

3. As a mechanic, and I am proud to say, a very good one, I can always get a job, or work. Always, Oil rig, auto dealer, motorcycle, Wal Mart tire Store, I will always work. It may not be glamorous, but if you can fix shit, you will always have someone that needs you.

See if you are following along:

Get a degree, NOW! get it over with. Journalism, fine, just keep your eye on the ring, involvement with motorsports as a journalist would probably be one of the best jobs I can think, next to F1 engineer. And always remember, "the pen IS mightier than the sword" This is more true now with the internet, than any other time.

Lastly, life is long. Ask yourself what will be the deciding factor when you look back at your life when you are 80 years old. Will you really be proud, or merely satisfied. Will you have changed the world or at least guided a small portion of it?

For me, I am afraid of living all these years and when I look back in the future, thinking I haven't accomplished anything, and wasting my life. This is the thought that drives me, sometimes to a fault.

In closing, some interesting 30 year olds I know, don't know what they want to be when they grow up; the most interesting still don't know at 40.

Erik Madsen

Post Script: Get the degree, but keep the fire burning for restoration, it's a nice side job, and an enjoyable one. But keep a log of every job you do, they will end up being so many, you'll lose track. And Good Luck!

Interesting post.

I'm a 3rd year mechanical engineer right now. I've always been frusturated at what they've been teaching me in school. Theres lots of numbers and problem solving that doesnt mean crap in the real world. Every real engineer I talk to in motorsports agrees the 5 years as an undergrad is a huge waste of time. With that said, when I went to apply to Porsche Motorsports on monday, the first two questions they asked me were "are you a student" and "what are you studying?" I'm glad I had the right answer.

No matter the degree, you gotta get one. My boss right now (with the race team) doesnt have a degree, and he's told me what a pain its been to get anywhere in motorsports. Other diciplines may be different, but it seems like a bachelors is pretty necessary to dodge the grunt work. If you want to do grunt work, take a year off school and do only grunt work. Post again in a year and tell us how willing you are to devote many more years to that same thing.

QUOTE (byndbad914 @ Mar 29 2006, 05:20 PM)

QUOTE (drive-ability @ Mar 29 2006, 04:58 PM) The best thing that happened to me is a blue out my back. I thank God everyday for the fact I don't have to go back to doing that type of work.  :DRUNK:  :mueba: mix this with the whole IT thing that started this thread... OFFICE SPACE Y'all know what I'm talking about right?! The guy who want to kill himself but then backs out of the garage and gets T-boned, laid up in a wheel chair with head gear and saying it's the best thing that could have ever happened to him Sorry about your back btw - I have a hard time sitting in one place for very long without having a dull numbness set in. Probably couldn't walk if I had done that work for 20yrs.

Its true, I have been keeping house for about 6 years and love it. My wife loves it as well! I drive by my old work place just to let my manager know its my 1875th day in a row off. He just hates that. I never would have built a car working on them every day. That was the last thing I wanted to do when I got home.

Yep - get that degree any BS will do. My best friend is the hardest working smartest guy I have ever met, he made a dumb decision to not finish the last year of ME school (Cal Poly SLO) and he just recently gave up ever trying to work for other people. He ran the PHD and Masters ME lab (as the manufacturing engineer) at UC Berkley for one of engineering groups that was doing big time military stuff (DARPA?) and the program ended so he had no job. He kept finding great jobs at places that would not hire him because he had no degree - even with almost 10 years experience and a reference list a mile long. He gave up and now he runs a gas station.

I got my worthless degree (to me it was waste - seems real important to others) and I'm glad I did. I changed majors twice because I hated (ME then computer engineering ) what I was studying.
I think the main thing a degree shows is that you can start and finish something on a large scale.

I have to say, this is getting a bit too much. I agree that finishing that degree is a good idea, but not having one is not the end of the world, and certainly not one that will force you into "B" level jobs or worse. Places that insist on a degree, even a degree that isn't in any way related to what you'll do, are generally not great places to work. They're run by short-sighted narrow-minded people who can't see the forest for the trees.

Having the sheepskin makes getting a bad job a lot easier, but it doesn't help much in getting a good job unless you have other qualities to back it up. My definition of "good" has nothing to do with money, and everything to do with how much you enjoy doing it, and the sort of people you have working around you.

Most of the real idiots I've met in my line of work have Ph.D after their names. Many of the more brilliant people have no degree at all...

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Mar 29 2006, 10:09 PM)

Places that insist on a degree, even a degree that isn't in any way related to what you'll do, are generally not great places to work. They're run by short-sighted narrow-minded people who can't see the forest for the trees.

Unfortunatly that would be most of corporate America today.
I didn't used to "get" Dilbert. Now that we have been assimalated by a HUGE corp. I get it.

Hmm...

You'll never live a lavish lifestyle as a "mechanic". You'll just make a decent living. Hell, why do you think I took the newspaper job over the mechanic job?

Consider another career field unless you want to become a technician, or work for a major manufacturer. Or get lucky and hook up with a racing division.

Only "specialists" make a damn good living, and the way it goes... you need at least 15-20 years of experience and certifications, special training (factory) and tons of time with the cars to get to that point.

I agree with MattR and Bondo.

I was in the same position when I was 15 and wanted to play. Al Lager was *only* interested in me because I was studying to be a machinist and intended to follow up with an engineering degree. And even now, after I've been tested tried and true, I think he would still consider dropping me if I were to deviate from my planned course and so I'm in junior college now trying to knock out all my core classes.

I'll be sticking around until I've got my bachelors and I spend all my free time picking up extra certs to make me more valuable. I just completed a suspension dynamics course and got certed in Penske-style shocks, the Rhoehrig dynamometer, and Suspension Analyzer V1.1. This to add to a butt-load of other certs that I've obtained just on the off chance that they look good to someone. (I've never not been hired on the spot for a machining position.)

It's a ton of hard work. And I, like many here, have dedicated endless hours to it. And I still may never get past the local levels of racing, as sad as that may be. Oppurtunities don't always spring up at you. You have to make them for yourself. And that takes more time and effort than you could imagine.

And on the same note, nobody should be allowed to bitch from now on when I get free or reduced-price used parts. I bust my ass for 'em. But that's OT.

Good luck, man. I'd defiantely help you if I could. Us young guns have got to stick together.

I dropped out of school in the 8th grade and never looked back...not for everybody, but it worked for me. Now I teach.... oh the irony.

John www.ghiaspecialties.com

QUOTE (byndbad914 @ Mar 29 2006, 05:20 PM)

QUOTE (drive-ability @ Mar 29 2006, 04:58 PM) The best thing that happened to me is a blue out my back. I thank God everyday for the fact I don't have to go back to doing that type of work.  :DRUNK:  :mueba: mix this with the whole IT thing that started this thread... OFFICE SPACE Y'all know what I'm talking about right?! The guy who want to kill himself but then backs out of the garage and gets T-boned, laid up in a wheel chair with head gear and saying it's the best thing that could have ever happened to him Sorry about your back btw - I have a hard time sitting in one place for very long without having a dull numbness set in. Probably couldn't walk if I had done that work for 20yrs.

don't be afraid to follow your dreams and design a "jump to conclusions" mat. It could be the next pet rock! (more office space)


That movie was a godsend.....

I've been building "stuff" for 40+ years. I'd fall into the "satisfied" catagory. Building stuff satisfies some inner need ....it must be genes or sumthin'. I tried office work and about went nuts. So I build stuff at work as part of a team & at home by myself. I tried wrenchin' on cars......as hobby as work can take the joy out of it........same with wood working.

Could I have done "better" with a degree? sure. I started in the 60s, but now days, the outfit I work for won't even consider a newbie coming in without at least an associates degree for a machinist position. Back in the 60s, all you needed was a heartbeat & a willingness to work your ass off.

Get the sheepskin. .......and never trust anyone under 40 when seeking advice

QUOTE

.......and never trust anyone under 40 when seeking advice

Hell, looks like I have 10 more fucking years before you guys should listen to me!

Looks like a good excuse not to give any more advice till I'm qualified.

See ya.

I thought that was "never trust anyone over 40"

QUOTE (grantsfo @ Mar 29 2006, 02:08 PM)

Electric cars seem to be finally coming on as a viable means of transport for some. Great opportunity to blend electrical engineering, IT and cars all in one. Developing technologies may allow a few private companies to emerge outside of the big automotive manufacturers as big successes. Specialty Electric cars seem to me to be a possible great business opportunity. With aging boomer crowd hot rods will also continue to be popular. I spent some time with my dad recently in Grants Pass, OR and I was amazed how many guys in his hot rod club have full out workshops next to their homes. Some of these guys are making great livings doing custom rods. People are throwing around big money on these cars too. I saw a couple $75 K hotrods.

What he said. As the effects of global warming are widely publicized, the search for remedies will become a huge economic factor. Technical innovation in the areas of resource utilization and transportation will be a major growth sector. We're not going to give up our cars, but there's gonna be some big changes made. Get in front of the curve. 'Plastics'

Couple of good books to read: Cradle to Cradle by Wm McDonough & Michael Braumgart and Natural Capitalism by Paul Hawken and Amory & Hunter Lovins.

Good Luck

Marc

As a former shop owner, I would hire young, inspired guys with stars in their eyes, They rapidly figured out that the work they preformed was not always as glamorous as they envisioned. I treated them with respect, but they were tools. They either worked hard everyday and made money, or I had to get a new tool. So I ask you, in the real world of cars, do you want to be someones tool? That's what you will be until you have the experience to be looked upon as a master tech. That's the cold hard facts from the management side of things.

Here's another interesting spin on the subject. I have a good friend who owns a metal crafting business. I stopped by to visit the other day. He's always worked alone or with one apprentice. He had two guys in his shop. He started telling me that in Poland where he was an apprentice, you pay the master to learn. If you didn't have money your wife would carry water, or bring food, help clean house or something. He talked about how he even needs to inspruct how to just walk around the shop without bumping into things. He wasn't really happy with the employee thing. He went on to say, here in America, the master pays the apprentice to work and teaches him too. He went on the say "then you are the ass hole when you don't pay top wages and give time off when ever the apprentice wants."

Be sure your willing to do what ever it takes to become the best at what you choose. It's all work, it's always about money, not romantic fantasies.

Thanks everyone. There is a lot of really solid advice in this thread and I knew there would be. I'm not really sure were I want to go with all this, but I guess one of the conclusions I've come to is that I don't have to really know right now. Go for what I want now and maybe change my mind a few years down the road and get into a new field. Hard to say where I'll end up, but I have to agree in getting the degree and having something to stand upon. Anyway thanks a lot everyone, and if anyone has more ideas I would love to hear them so keep um coming .
Eric