Does anyone have experience with the aftermarket FI sysems for the 914. I see that Automobile Atlanta has an "extreme Fuel Injection Kit" for sale. Looks nice on their website. Cost is $2600 or so. Looks like a complete system to replace FI (or carbs) and ignition system with up to date components. I know, I have seen where a lot of people have expressed dis-satisfaction with AA.

I also see a lot of posts about the megasquirt systems. However, these look as if they require a lot of tweaking. I don't want to make a career out of tuning the system, with the added worry about burning a cylinder, etc. if a mistake was made. I am capable of doing this, but I don't want to spend that much time.\

Any experience with any of these systmes, and/or recommendations. I am not as interested in a big HP increase as I am in reliability and good fuel economy.

I have a 1.7 FI car that I am restoring, and also have a 2.0 engine with some old carbs from a parts car I bought. The carbs on the 2.0 are Dellorto brand (I think). Can rebuild kits be obtained for these also?

For the engine mechanical, I was thinking about rebuilding the 2.0 (or maybe buying a Raby engine kit). I need to decide what fuel system to use.

I was wondering about the net cost if I have to replace a lot of the FI system on the 1.7 eventually adding up to about what the AA system costs, and still not be current technology. Megasquirt looks to be a little cheaper, but not as sure of a deal? Any others?

Need help. Thanks, Joe

The megasquirt system is certainly the most cost effective, but it does entail some "hobbyist" skills in tuning and setting up. Should work well when done though.

For the needs and expectations you describe, I would recommend that you stay away from MS. It is advertised as an experimental system and although its improving is still not refined enough for the expectations you describe.

Take a look at SDS, it may be a good fit. Emerald Perfomance may be a good fit too, there may be others.

No PEFI system on the market is Plug N Play yet, but there are members here who have experience in many of the systems available, with 914 specific applications. Be prepared with whatever system you choose to spend time making it 914 specific...and don't expect any significant power gain unless you make cam and displacement changes.

if you're planning on going down that route, ask jake about his FI setup ...

the megasquirt needs a bit more setup time, but you'll save a bundle on the hardware ...

someone should come out with a "MS conversion kit" for stock(ish) engines that includes the ignition ...
Andy

Most of the aftermarket systems are assemble-them-yourself affairs, to varying degrees. Megasquirt can be bought off the shelf pre-assembled, and you can get tuning maps that will get you close from several people here. Still, pretty much a DIY system. About $500-800 if you use the D-Jet hard parts, once you're all through. Can be done for as little as $300 if you assemble the ECU yourself.

SDS has also been used widely, you don't assemble it yourself, but you will need to adapt it to the D-Jet parts, and there is some fabrication involved if you don't want to use a distributor. About $1500, more or less.

Jake sells a turn-key kit with throttle bodies, maps, and everything, using the SDS ECU. I don't recall the price, but look on his site. I believe it's in the same price neighborhood as the AA kit.

The AA kit is supposed to be complete, but I don't think anyone on this board has fessed up to actually using it.

There are other ECUs out there, but other than one-offs, no one has used them on the 914. Megasquirt is popular because it's cheap.

There are a couple of fuel injection kits out there that are designed to replace dual IDF Webers.

Redline Weber has a really trick programmable system with IDF throttle bodies. It'll cost you an arm, a leg, and then some though.

CB Performance also has an IDF replacement kit that seems pretty reasonably priced, but it doesn't look like it's programmable. From what I can tell, it has 2 knobs that allow you to adjust the A/F mixture at idle and at WOT.

I think Jake Raby also has FI stuff, but you'll have to call his shop for details. I'm not sure it is available as a kit yet.

It would be hard to offer an MS-based kit that included everything that was cheaper than the SDS kit. SDS includes a wiring harness and the relevant sensors. Crank-fire is not trivial to adapt to the Type IV, so I'd not offer it as a kit.

Guesses:
Assembled MS unit: $300-$350
Wiring harness: $250-300 (includes connectors for stock sensors)
009 distributor modified with an optical sensor and locked (advance by ECU): $150
Misc mounting hardware, MAP tubing, etc: $50
$750 to $850. Cheaper than SDS, but not by a lot. SDS is $900 for fuel only, $1100 for crank-fired (distributor) ignition. Plus you need to provide your own laptop with MS to tweak the provided maps.

The lack of need for a laptop is a key important feature of SDS to my way of thinking. Imagine the scenario a few years down the road when/if you need to do some adjustment for any reason and you dont have that old laptop? With SDS you get a dedicated programmer box that always stays with the car and does not rely on a separate laptop.

someone should come out with a "MS conversion kit" for stock(ish) engines that includes the ignition ...
Andy
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Speeking of, I was reading through some old MS threads last night(2003 and $hit) and was reminded of the KitCarlson set-up. Pressed as the Aircooled EFI convertion of the future, I was wondering if anyone knew what happened with it. I know Dave had some family problems which prompted Jake to go with SDS instead of the kitcarlson when he moved away from Carbs, but then the kit just dropped of the map.
KitCarlson

Sorry for the Sorta Hijack, you're going to have to tinker a bit with what ever you go with I'd do the SDS backdate route from Jake if I had the $1500 to burn. But since I don't, I'll be MSing it when my D-jet gets stored.

As far as I know, the AA kit uses the ECU from SDS as is the unit from Jake. The advantage of the kit from Jake is that I belive it's all the items needed. If you bought just the basic stuff from SDS you'd still need to source the throttle body (or bodies if going multiple)Also more than likely Jake would have more complete maps for it.


The CB Performance kit is too expensive for not alot of control, it is just barely smarter than a carb and that is not saying too much.

I'm using a Link Fuel and Igntion controller, cost is close to the others in the price category ($1000 range, +/- a few hundered bucks depending on the options)...and that does not include the induction...most of the factory parts can be used depending on what you are after.

I've never used the SDS, but there are plenty of times I wished I had gone with it due to the good support for it, and it seems pretty easy to setup and tweak...having to use a laptop is a PITA at times, however once the system is up and running you should never have to pull out the laptop unless you want to. Any laptop should support the ECU as long as you have the software, heck, you could drap your PC out to the garage and just run a long cable if need be. Oh yea, a seperate pendant (like the SDS has) is available for the Link and the Megasquirt

I'd go with the following if going with brand new unit....

An SDS or kit from someone supplying the SDS with thier hardware...
or
Haltech
or
Link
or
Megasquirt if you don't mind doing more work.

if you dont want to spend time tuning get a autronic setup with auto tune. just set the parameters you want and it will "self tune" to +/- .05% they cost about 2k AUS but are schweet.

MS has autotune, as well. The problem with autotune is it only gets you in the ballpark. It doesn't work for fine tuning, and it can't fix things the O2 sensor can't detect, like subtle drivability problems. It does nothing for ignition tuning.

I have a car that was converted to a carburetor. But I seem to have all the parts for the L-jet FI system.

If I wanted to go back to a FI setup, would y'all recommend trying to put the original L-JET back in, or go with a new - aftermarket setup.

Doug

I am currently installing an 034 system(034motorsport.com) on my turbo Audi. It is a really nice system and would probably hook up to the stock injectors on a 914. It needs a laptop to program but is a very good system with excellent tech support. The basic IA system isn't too pricey either.

Sonu (he did a 1.8T conversion using the Audi gearbox) has that system....in fact they are just a few blocks away from my work. I looked into it, however at the time they seemed too much like a hobbiest type company and I wanted something from a more well known professional company.

Almost all of the aftermarket FI systems allow you to re-use your stock injectors and CHT, you'll new a new TPS and depending on the brand a new air temp sensor.

To convert from Carbs to Megasquirt including purchasing all injection parts (intake, plenum, runners, filter, TB, injectors, rail, fuel hose, filter, lines, connectors, sensors, fuel pump, relay board with enclosure, stimulator, fuel pressure regulator, Innovative WB02, clamps, pertronix) cost be around $1000.

I built the MS box myself, its far from plug and play. I've had a fair share of trivial issues that i'm in the process of working out. It's a great learning experience though.

I have 3 kits. One is the "EFI Retrofit kit" that uses all the stock plenum and runners and T/b but replaces the electronics, TPS and etc. This is basically an upgrade for D and L Jet near stock engines, up to 2270cc.

I offer a full kit for larger engines, one is based from my own plenum to work with stock cooling and the other is based on independant runners for DTM cooling, and max performance. All systems are based on SDS electronics, because they are mega simple and work VERY well! See them at my store under fuel system and induction.

I am using an SDS fuel only system on a stock 2.0L with the stock intake, throttle body and 1.7L injectors. You can buy the kit with everything you need to get up and running (all sensors and wiring harnesses) you can even have a fast idle if you want it. The only fab work I had to do was mounting the TPS.
I would not bother spending the extra money for crank fire ignition. I don't think it's worth the hassle. I think your money would be better spent on a Mallory dizzy
which I don't have yet. I am using a stock D jet dizzy.

SDS stands for " SIMPLE DIGITAL SYSTEMS" and they are not kidding.

I think they are the best bang for the buck, especially for he DIY er.

SDS is slick, The CB Performance stuff is old school GM computer remapped, I have to book on how to do it. Pretty easy, but the dude that would do the chip remaps died in an experimental plane crash. Using his EFI system, and a VW engine. Luckily if a car dies it is not a problem. Your Airplane dies, you got issues. Mainly gravity!!!!!!

I really like the SDS concept that and a good wide-band with dataloging capabilities you are set. If you got the $$$$ Jake's system would be a good one. Well thought out, and you know it will work like he says.

I myself made up a harness for a friend and had them make it. Fit perfectly, cotton clothes line works wonders for this work. Really it is good for all kinds of harness work, or you can craft it yourself.

Thanks for all the info. I need to study up on these systems. Joe

Hi Joe.

Could you please send me an email sir? I'd like to confirm your email address.