today i went to Karls vee-dub shop and picked up my 2.0l heads

they beaded them and did seats and quides

they said they look really good other than there is a hold in one chamber that goes all the way to the exhaust stud

they said if i just leave the stud in itll be fine but they cant do anything to fix it because of how deep it is...

what do you guys think?

-shaggyClick to view attachment

seems like they could just weld it or something.


b

hole pointed out by paint brush
Click to view attachment

they claimed it was too deep to weld it goes all the way to the stud
i dont know..i dont get it...

Alright, I'm not the only idiot that has drilled out an exhaust stud and gone into the combustion chamber !!!!

Not only did I screw up the head, I drilled into the cylinder wall and had to throw it away....

without it being fixed, you might never get full compression in that cylinder, also a good chance the hole will get bigger in time...

Did you have any work done or did they just clean them and inspect them?

BTW Jim I might have a Bursch for you if you are interested.

NO!!!!!!!!
DO NOT TRUST THAT HOLE!!!

The hole will get worse! It looks like they did a good job, but I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT A PROFESSIONAL SAID THAT A HOLE IN A COMBUSTION CHAMBER IS "OK"!!!!

That hole needs to be welded up and the pocket behind the stud reinforced. When we rebuilt heads this was a standard procedure on every set of 2 liter heads. Generally what opens this hole up is a flycut thats too deep....

never ceases to amaze me.... Starting a project with a compromise concerning a cylinder head is just not smart. This one has bit me in the ass before-

jason-

i actually have a bursch
a new one too!(thanks bjorn)

there was no work done other than seats ans guides and a good cleaning

i had no work done pervious to this either

-shag

so it needs to be sealed huh?

how do they reinforce the void between the stud and the portion to be welded?

-shag

Damn, I was hoping to get that box of heater parts back from you.

ALSO, you might take those to Fisher at Competition Engineering. He might be able to do the work.

The stud is removed...The hole is milled/drilled to remove residual cracks

The entire stud hole is welded shut from both sides...

The head is then re-flycut. The entire process requires the pre heating and post cooling of the head and that will require the seats to be cut again on that head and then the sealing surface re fly cut....

Basically everything they did has to be redone...

SO that means this process should have been done first and foremost before any other work was completed!

Any professional that thinks a hole in a combustion chamber is acceptable needs to be beat with the biggest wrench in his tool box!

"Any professional that thinks a hole in a combustion chamber is acceptable needs to be beat with the biggest wrench in his tool box!"

hahahahahaha!

damn...
so should i take it back and ask whats going on or what?

how much is a new head that wouldnt need this?

-shag

Thats an understatement....

The head you will more than likely find to replace it with has a good possibity of being in WORSE condition than what you have...

Thats why we stopped rebuilding heads, too many idiots have hacked on them and too many issues just are not worth repairing...

crap...

Sorry to break the news to you.... BUT when the head lets go the pain will be much worse.

That little issue cost me a 5K buck engine about 10 years ago and the issue wasn't even visible when I assembled the engine. It showed up on the dyno-

Some time ago I went down to CE with AZBill and we talked to them about doing some head work. They blew us off and tried to talk us into building up a Type 1 motor with a turbo instead. We had heard good things about them, and left quite dissapointed that they neither knew or cared for Type IVs.

Jim, give me a call. I need to get some head work done on the one that dropped a seat. Part of the seat was actually driven into the head, so there will need to be some welding and fix up there. Lets compare notes. Maybe we need to ship them off to Len.

Len is also fed up with repairing other people's mistakes.. He is now only working with "used" castings on a case by case basis and he has to see the heads first before commiting to the work....

BUT with the Hot VWs article now being released and the "Leading Edge" heads being unveiled don't expect to get anything done soon, we will be months behind on head orders in just a matter of days- I'm positive of that, thats how truly bad ass the new head program is!

Send them to Adrian at headflow masters- He did good work for me for years, and if he was willing to further development with me I'd still use him, but he wasn't...

I got the same impression from them. They know Type Is, but not Type IVs. I bought a set of copper head gaskets from them, but only after insisting that they make thinner ones than what they had on hand. The on hand ones would have lowered my CR to about 7.8:1, negating the Euro pistions. The copper gaskets do seem to work well though.

Hmm thats too bad. I knew he specialized more in TI but I thought he might deal with some TIV stuff too.

Hey Jim, who at Karls told you to live with the hole? I assume you went to the Indian School Store?

Hi Shaggy,

I am over at Costa Mesa R&D (machine shop)

I was showing John (owner) the pics of your heads.

His response was the same as most of the guys here. Your machinist shoud of never handed back those heads to you and told you to RUN EM........

Just to give you an idea of what happens to aluminum TYPE 4 heads.

I have sent along some pics of head that had a LITTLE crack next to the seat area. Look how far we had to grind to follow that little crack....

There is no dam end to it....

I am doing this so you get an idea of what it takes just to discover the underlying problems of these heads when they have a crack or a hole in them....

Fixing them... Is a whole nuther matter....!!!!

Check out the pics...

wow twystd!

would you have any idea what this would cost to get fixed?


jason- i was dealing with paul at the front counter hes who i pretty much always deal with

but he was told be the mechanic who did the work(idk what one did it) that it would all be fine and that i should just run it and not worry about it
unless the stud was to come out or i was to take it out

-shag

They should have never done the the seats and re-assembled the heads before

letting you know about that hole. That's just stupid. What the fuch were they

thinking, other than getting their money that is.

Shaggy,

If I had to guess.... you are simply working with an ignorant company.

The guy that helped you may actually believe it is no big deal....

We are simply here to tell you the truth.

Don't run em if you want an engine that will have longevity.

That said... Find another head. Try pm-ing a couple of the guys here.(Slits) and see what you can do.....

By the way... The price to fix the 2 litre seat problem in the pictures is ZERO... They aren't fixable for a cost that would be less than a good condition used head.

I have seen heads fixed that were worse. But it is getting too expensive anymore for most people.
They aren't willing to pay the price for the grinding, welding, heat treating and machining process.

Thats my take on it anyway.....

Regards,
Clayton

I have seen combustion leak past the threads of the exhaust stud and actually torch the stud! when this happens there is no resolution but to pull it apart.

The engine that it happened to had an uncurable "exhaust leak" that no one at 12 different shops could repair until it came to me.

issues like this are typical with shops that are not Type 4 specific and don't have a close relationship with all variants of the TIV head..

much suckage. glad i'm in on the ground floor with the new heads from R.A.T.

k

Yep and they will be done later this afternoon!!!

do i get to post pictures when they arrive or wait for the okeydoke?


k

You can post pics when you get them...
The Hot VWs article is now in the hands of most subscribers so the cat is already out of the bag..