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nycchef
lately my car has been asking who its real parents are. i wanted to avoid this question until it was older but it's 33 now and i can't put it off any longer. is there a way to research the history of a single car?
Part Pricer

Simply put, your car is the bastard offspring of an unholy union between VW and Porsche. smile.gif

You could start by getting a COA from PCNA.
ptravnic
I think I saw a "have you seen me?" picture of your car on the side of a milk carton @ Gristedes... You may be the unknowing recipient of a car from the underground slave trade... ohmy.gif

Your car is German (nice, b/c it covers both VW and Porsche). Just get by w/that until it starts asking some REALLY tough questions like "Daddy, when I grow up do you think I can be a 6?".............Then U R IN TROUBLE MY FRIEND!!! hitfan[1].gif
drewvw


One dark and dirty evening, a 911 strayed from its pack of fellow tail draggers and in his drunken state, decided he wanted a piece and went slumming.

Enter the Volkswagen. The 911 stumbled its way across town to a seedy piano bar known to frequent Beetles, Squarebacks, and Ghias. He entered the bar and immediately spotted a trashy Ghia sitting alone at the end of the bar. It was on.

4 Tequila shots, 2 whiskeys and a cheap motel room later, the 914 was born.

sheeplove.gif

Any Questions?
URY914
Tell him his daddy should have worn protection...
sjhowitson
Just tell him you went out to get the paper one sunday morning and there he was. He looked so cute all wrapped up in a car cover and looking up at you with one pop up light open. You posted notes around town but no on called. You raised him like he was your own metal and oil.
Eric_Shea
On a more serious note; does anyone have any more information on the original design firm and the front engine layout? I recall bits and pieces that Porsche bought the design and it was originally intended to be a front engine car. Was that from Excellence was Expected? Can't recall.
neo914-6
QUOTE(Eric_Shea @ Apr 28 2006, 10:02 AM) *

On a more serious note; does anyone have any more information on the original design firm and the front engine layout? I recall bits and pieces that Porsche bought the design and it was originally intended to be a front engine car. Was that from Excellence was Expected? Can't recall.

front engine, 924?! av-943.gif

Gugelot: mid-engine...
Hammy
Plastic framed?
SirAndy
from DGVWPB ...

--------------------------
"the first sketches were done in 1964 at the porsche design-studios. five different sketches were chosen for the final design choice in early 1966. all 5 sketches were turned into 1:5 size clay models. the (unanimous) vote went to a model designed by Heinrich Klie, then head of the porsche design-studios, who also designed the the first porsche formular 1 racecar and the carrera 6."
--------------------------


attached are 3 pics of klie's clay model that won the contest ... (click on pic for full size version)
smilie_pokal.gif Andy
ClayPerrine
The 914's Dad was a 911, and it's Mom was a VW Bus.



The sixes take after Dad more than the fours do. The 914 /6 GT was a juicer like Barry bonds. laugh.gif


But like most mixed breeds it got the best of both parents.




So.Cal.914
Tell him that he was born in Germany but his kind was not appreciated there. So

they made the long pilgrimage to the new world. Where they were welcomed with

open arms, loved and cared for. smoke.gif
neo914-6
QUOTE
THE PORSCHE 914--MID-ENGINE MAGIC
by: Dean Lewellen

When the Boxster was formally introduced to North America Porsche dealers and a select number of PCA notables right here in Scottsdale, Arizona, in September of 1996, its heritage and inspiration was traced and credited to the company's legendary 550 Spyders and RS-60s, the remarkable, two-seat, mid-engine race cars that established Porsche's reputation in endurance road racing in the 1950s and early 1960s. The Boxster concept car was first shown to the public and hyped as a fresh styling approach at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit in 1993. For the next three years, while 10,000 deposits were collected and we patiently waited for the production version of the two-seat, mid-engine Boxster to arrive at local showrooms, all the company's publicity seemed to deny the existence of the 119,000 Model 914s built and sold by Porsche from 1970 through 1976. This denial is mysterious to PCA members who have owned or still own any version of this mid-engine magic machine. I still smile when I recall the joy my 914-2.0 could provide at Pacific Northwest Region Autocrosses and the fun of running flat-out through every corner of Seattle International Raceway on Driver's Ed days. Just ask Jack/Loretta Aman, Paul Cordell, Shannon Cross, Bob/Linda Frith, Tim Hannum, Andy Joslin, Joe/Candy Stubblefield, Brian Willess or any one of our Region's several 914 owners about their rides and prepare to become well informed about the attributes of these wonderful two-seat, mid-engine cars.

The public was first introduced to the Model 914 at the Frankfurt International Auto Show in September 1969, and, the first production cars arrived in North America Porsche+Audi dealership showrooms in March 1970. But, let's back up a few years and look at the Model 914 project from its beginnings as a three-way joint venture between Karmann, Porsche and Volkswagen.

In late 1966 and early 1967, Porsche management began thinking about a less expensive addition to the 911/912 family of cars. Almost coincidentally, Heinz Nordhoff, the Director of Volkswagen, was thinking about a sportier car to expand Volkswagen's image beyond simple, utilitarian transportation machines. Ferry Porsche and Heinz Nordhoff shook hands on an agreement whereby Porsche would design and develop a new mid-engine sports car for Volkswagen, using the flat-four cylinder engine Volkswagen was developing for the VW Model 411. The new car would have the bodies built and assembled by the Wilhelm Karmann GmbH factory in Osnabruck, Germany, which had previously built bodies for both Porsche and VW. It was further agreed that this resulting car would be marketed as a Volkswagen. The two men also verbally agreed that Porsche could acquire the same body shells from Karmann, install Porsche engines and market these cars as Porsches if desired. These basic agreements would be changed several times as issues arose before the Type 914 would come to the market.

The first issue was the appearance, which had to be approved by both Porsche and VW. Porsche did not want the car to look like their existing product line and Volkswagen did not want the car to look like any earlier Porsche models. To minimize conflict, an outside source was chosen to provide the initial design concept for the new car, which was formally identified as the Type 914. The industrial design firm of Gugelot Design GmbH, located in Neu-Ulm, Germany, was working on an automobile body shape built from a foam core bonded to fiberglass panels as a sandwich structure which had interested BMW, Daimler-Benz, Karmann, Porsche and Volkswagen as a future automobile body production method. This design concept was a front-engine coupe with flush fender lines, a recessed rear window and elongated running lights capping the front fenders. The Porsche design team, headed by Butzi Porsche, credited for the 911 Coupe and Targa designs, changed the Gugelot concept car to accommodate the mid-engine location and made other styling changes to suit Porsche's desires. The second issue was the death of Heinz Nordhoff in April of 1968, following which the new Director of Volkswagen, Kurt Lotz, backed out of some of the verbal agreements between Porsche and Nordhoff as Lotz had little interest in the new sportier VW version being developed. This issue resulted in a Porsche and Volkswagen joint marketing venture, fifty per cent owned by each company, which would sell Volkswagen, Porsche and Audi products. Porsche could still buy bodies from Karmann, but at a higher price than Porsche thought they had earlier agreed to pay. The final outcome from all the issues resulted in Karmann building the Model 914 as a completed, out the door, ready to roll automobile with the "VW-Porsche" nameplate for European sales and the "Porsche" nameplate for US sales. The Model 914/6 bodies were assembled, trimmed and painted at Karmann's Osnabruck factory then shipped to Porsche for engines and final assembly where they went down the same production line with the Model 911. A total of 3,351 914/6s were produced at Zuffenhausen in 1970, 1971 and 1972 under this plan. The total number of 914/4s produced during the seven year model run was 115,596. It is estimated that approximately 75,000 copies of the 914 models were sold in the United States.

The appearance of the 914 was a departure for Porsche, but the mechanicals were tried and true Porsche components. The MacPherson strut front suspension with the longitudinal torsion bars was lifted right out of the 911. The rear trailing arm independent suspension geometry was similar to the 911, but the links and coil springs were new. Both the 914/4 and 914/6 had disc brakes all around with the 914/6 utilizing vented rotors at the front. An odd rear caliper was used at the rear on both cars which had the hand brake actuator linkage built into it. The dual master cylinders activating separate front and rear brake systems through a rear brake pressure limiter made brake caliper bleeding often difficult for the rear wheels. The 914/4 steel wheels were mounted on four-lug VW 411 hubs while the 914/6 wheels were steel or optional magnesium cast wheels by Mahle mounted on Porsche five-lug hubs. The Mahle wheels were often referred to as "gas burners". The 914 had a 7 inch longer wheelbase and was four inches lower than the 911. The mid-engine location allowed for substantial luggage spaces front and rear even with the one-piece, removable top section stored in the rear space.

The 914/4 was initially offered with the W-series engine from the VW 411. This engine was a fuel injected, 1.7 liter, air-cooled, overhead valve design producing 80 DIN horsepower. The 914/6 used the 2.0 liter, single overhead cam engine from the 1968-69 911T which produced 110 DIN horsepower. This engine had a capacitive discharge ignition system, a dry-sump lubrication system and two, triple-choke Weber carburetors supplying fuel. In 1973, the 2.0 liter four-cylinder engine option was introduced for the 914/4 when production of the 914/6 ceased after the 1972 model year. The two liter engine capacity was obtained by a bore and stroke increase and the power was rated at 95 DIN horsepower. The model designations were changed in 1973 to 914-1.7 and 914-2.0. The standard engine was enlarged to 1.8 liters in 1974, equipped with L-Jetronic fuel injection and the power dropped to 76 DIN horsepower. The 1975 and 1976 914s fell victim to emission and safety mandates that resulted in ugly impact absorbing bumper systems front and rear which added weight and new exhaust systems for more stringent emissions control which reduced the power output to 88 DIN horsepower for the 2.0 liter engines. Sportomatic transmissions were advertised options for the 914/6 and a few were actually produced. Typically, both cars used the five-speed gearbox from the 911. Because of the engine location, the transmission was turned around and the shifter mechanism was usually described, kindly, as "a trifle vague" in the early years cars. The side-shifter transmission with improved linkage was introduced in 1973 which greatly improved gear selection capability and reduced embarrassing gear clashes when shifting from first to second in a tight autocross corner. This updated linkage has been retrofitted to many pre-1973 914s.

The 914/6 was fancier and better equipped with 3-speed wipers, electric windshield washers and chrome plated bumpers. The 914/6 also had vinyl trim on the "roll bar", dual horns, headlight flasher and external trim strips. The instrument panel contained a central tachometer which went to 7000 rpm on the 914/4 and 8000 rpm on the 914/6. The right dial housed the speedometer which registered 120 mph and 150 mph for the 914/4 and 914/6, respectfully. The left dial contained a fuel quantity gauge in the bottom sector and the 914/6 had an oil temperature gauge in the top half while the 914/4 had warning lights for fuel level, hand brake and low brake fluid in the top sector. During the 914/4 and 914/6 production runs, the cars remained basically the same. Only a few minor improvements were made--adjustable passenger seat in 1972, additional air outlets at each end of the dash and insulation and sound deadening improvements in 1973. The 914 was never as well developed as other Porsches during its production run which led indirectly to its demise.

During the seven year production life of the 914 series, Porsche explored the outer limits of the chassis's capability with several projects. Two cars were constructed and powered by the 4-cam flat eight cylinder engine from the 908 race cars. One of these special cars was presented to Ferry Porsche on his sixtieth birthday. It was detuned as much as possible to make it docile enough for road usage. Ferry Porsche used the car for commuting from home to office registering some 10,000 kilometers before garaging the beast after which this 914/8 found a permanent home in the Porsche Museum. The racing shop at Werk I in Zuffenhausen developed a highly upgraded version of the 914/6 which was identified as the 914/6 GT. It had bold, bulging steel fender flares all around, a solid steel roof, and, was powered by a 906 blueprinted engine producing a minimum of 220 DIN horsepower. These cars were campaigned world-wide by factory and private teams. The most notable achievement of a 914/6 GT was a GTclass win and a sixth overall finish at the 1970 running of LeMans. This car was prepared by Werk I and entered by a Frenchman named Auguste Veuillet of Paris. This car is reported to have run the entire 24 hour race on the same tires and brake pads--remarkable!

The Porsche 914 offered reliability and economy along with a healthy dose of competition potential and capability. Its inherent balance and great handling at a reasonable purchase price brought out the latent competitive spirit in many Porsche owners and drivers who hadn't participated in driving challenge events in recent years. 914s were seen in races, autocrosses, rallies and time trials at the local club, regional and national levels. Many were successfully campaigned in international events around the world.

The introductory price in 1970 for the 914/4 was $3595.00 (East Coast) and $5999.00 for the 914/6, add $100.00 for West Coast deliveries. In 1975, exchange rate problems and pollution controls' requirements pushed prices to $6300.00 for a 1.8-liter car and $6995.00 for a 2.0-liter car. Today's values can vary widely as the condition of the now near 30 year old cars run the entire gamut from "beater to beauty". 914-1.7s and 1.8s can be bought from $2500.00 to $5000.00. The more desirable 914-2.0 cars range in price from $2500.00 to $7000.00. The 914/6 is now considered to be one of the more sought after Porsches and prices keep escalating higher each year for good and authentic examples of these coveted cars. Expect to pay from $8000.00 to upwards of $17,000.00 for a pristine and authentic 914/6. Be aware that show cars and cars with a historical significance are valued substantially higher than the figures given here. Also, be aware that there are a lot of "conversions" out there in the 914/6 marketplace--some well done to or nearly to factory specifications, but others are not so well done. A complete listing of 914 serial numbers is available in the "The Porsche Family Tree" published by PCA and available from PCA National offices, which is valuable information for serious shoppers.

Production of the 914 was quietly phased out in Onasbruck in the winter of 1975-1976. The last cars were sold in the spring of 1976 to knowledgeable buyers who knew these were the last of a somewhat controversial line of Porsche cars that had a story to tell. Porsche learned a lot about joint venture partnerships, obtained priceless experience designing and building a mid-engine sports car for the road, and produced a truly marvelous, two-seat, mid-engine car that is still coveted in wide circles of Porsche owners to this very day.

References:
Batchelor, Dean, Illustrated Buyer's Guide--Porsche, Forth Edition, 1997
Ludvigsen, Karl, Porsche Excellence Was Expected, 1977
James, Drayton, Editor, The Porsche Family Tree, Published by PCA, 1995
SirAndy
QUOTE(neo914-6 @ Apr 28 2006, 10:49 PM) *

by: Dean Lewellen


unfortunately, that Dean guy got some dates and a few facts wrong, and you got your pictures wrong!

your top pic is a drawing for porsche #1 from 07/17/1947 !!! (DGVWPB page 14)

your bottom pic is a design study from Karman based on the 914 *after* it had already gone into production. (DGVWPB page 53)

i'm sorry, but i trust DGVWPB more than Mr. Lewellen ...
cool_shades.gif Andy
Dead Air
piratenanner.gif popcorn[1].gif
72914S
Just tell it (her) that it happened at the love in.1969 was a very good year
Eric_Shea
QUOTE
The industrial design firm of Gugelot Design GmbH, located in Neu-Ulm, Germany, was working on an automobile body shape built from a foam core bonded to fiberglass panels as a sandwich structure which had interested BMW, Daimler-Benz, Karmann, Porsche and Volkswagen as a future automobile body production method. This design concept was a front-engine coupe with flush fender lines, a recessed rear window and elongated running lights capping the front fenders. The Porsche design team, headed by Butzi Porsche, credited for the 911 Coupe and Targa designs, changed the Gugelot concept car to accommodate the mid-engine location and made other styling changes to suit Porsche's desires.


That's what I was looking for... Thanks!
gregrobbins
Get Brian Long's book on the 914/914-6. It has the most information and detail of any of the books I have on the 914s.

Go out to the garage and read your "baby" a chapter every night at bed time.
Richard Casto
QUOTE(Eric_Shea @ Apr 29 2006, 09:49 AM) *

QUOTE
The industrial design firm of Gugelot Design GmbH, located in Neu-Ulm, Germany, was working on an automobile body shape built from a foam core bonded to fiberglass panels as a sandwich structure which had interested BMW, Daimler-Benz, Karmann, Porsche and Volkswagen as a future automobile body production method. This design concept was a front-engine coupe with flush fender lines, a recessed rear window and elongated running lights capping the front fenders. The Porsche design team, headed by Butzi Porsche, credited for the 911 Coupe and Targa designs, changed the Gugelot concept car to accommodate the mid-engine location and made other styling changes to suit Porsche's desires.


That's what I was looking for... Thanks!


And I think I read somewhere that the initial concept of the foam core sandwhich mentioned above eventually evolved into the foam reinforcements that exist in the car today (which can cause rust problems).
SirAndy
QUOTE(neo914-6 @ Apr 28 2006, 10:49 PM) *

by: Dean Lewellen


i know you guys don't want to hear this, but i found some very interesting info in DGVWPB.

i'm going to put it in a new thread, for all you Gugelot junkies, but you're not going to like it ...
rolleyes.gif Andy
lapuwali
What is DGVWPB?
SirAndy
QUOTE(lapuwali @ May 2 2006, 03:12 PM) *

What is DGVWPB?


"Das Grosse VW-Porsche Buch"

IMHO, the best book about the history of the 914 ...
smile.gif Andy
fuzzyapple
I'll chime in!!
Maybe a Car-Fax report. I too would be interested to see the history of an individual 914, even though the replys about the history of the 914 design is amusing biggrin.gif
SirAndy
and here it is ... :DRUMROLL: ...

the TRUTH about the 914 Design ...

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=51265

beer3.gif Andy
lapuwali
Carfax only goes back to 1982 model year cars.

For older cars, it mostly depends on your local DMV, and usually, getting much data out of them is difficult. Sometimes it's way too easy, depending on the person that answers the phone.

With the '67 912 I used to have, I had registration slips from every previous owner saved in the glovebox. It was an original Bay Area car (sold in 1966 to Lockheed as a company car for someone living in Mountain View), went to Hawaii for a couple of years in the 1970s, then ended up back in the Bay Area. This really didn't tell me much about the car, though. The PO had died, so I have no idea who repainted it, or when.



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