so, I just went to do my first 914 oil change, and not realizing that oil is spelled oel in the fatherland, I dumped it in the wrong spot. Any idea if I did some real damage? Where exactly did the oil go (besides my garage floor).



and this is what I got

That's AN access port .....I would run it and see if the ALT BELT is slipping. You may have oiled it UP.

Don't be too hard on yerself...it's not the first time I have heard someone do that....

editted because I been playing with assdraggers too long.....

well, looks like you fixed that squeaky cooling fan ...

that's the timing hole, under there is the fan for the cooling.

there's two problems i can see here:

- the belt that goes to the alternator. if it has oil on it, it'll slip.

- the fan blowing oil everywhere, onto the cylinders and heads (cooling, duh!),
into the heat-exchangers (through the small heat-vents at the bottom), into
the alternator (through the cooling rubber connector)


this is not good. how much oil are we talking? did you turn the engine over since?

i'd put a floor jack under the engine/trans and drop it down (don't need to disconnect axles) and give it a thorough cleaning with lots of brake-cleaner ...
Andy

dude, wake up ... need some coffee? flywheel is in the BACK of the motor ..


DON'T run the engine as the oil on the FAN will spray EVERYWHERE ...
Andy

Yeah...well it was an access port of some sort....DUH....

Since I stopped drinking the flashbacks from the excessive pot parties in the 70s seem to be more frequent....

I haven't run the engine yet - just went to the store and got more oil. I put a full 3.5 quarts into the thing. I think I'll just fill the OEL tub with another 3.5 quarts (finishing my oil change) and push it off the ramps and back into the garage.

I'm not sure I exactly understand what you guys mean when it comes to what's under there. It sounds like there's a fan, the alternator belt, the alternator, and some other stuff. Will the oil pool there, or will gravity eventually get it all out?

If need be, I can let it sit for a week before I try to start it, especially if it can cause some damage. I really don't want to drop the engine, as I've never done that before. I guess if I have to...

With that much oil you may have submersed the bottom of the cooling fan and alternator belt. It may even be enough that it will flow into your h/e's and ducting. If you're going to put it back in the garage you better put something under the fan housing or you're gonna have almost a gallon of oil on the floor.

If it were me, I would put it up on jack-stands and try to drill a small weep hole at the lowest point of the housing and let it drain for a day or two then clean it out as well as you can with brake cleaner. Once it's all out and clean you can plug the hole with some jb weld...

I wouldn't run that engine until you are absolutely sure the oil is all out of there. Alternators do not like oil, and if just a small amount gets into the alternator it will die.
Personally I'd drop the engine and clean it up....It's not that hard to do.

Here is an easy method.... http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/9...engine_drop.htm

If it makes you feel any better, I did the same thing about 15 years ago on my first 914 (or any car) oil change...

-Steve

Thanks man.

After looking at that engine drop article, it sounds like a huge amount of work (there isn't enough room in my townhouse garage to actually do anything other than park the car). Assuming that I do the lazy thing, and simply try to start the car next weekend, and the worst happens (sounds like worst case is me killing the alternator), is there a source for new alternators, or would I end up spending $500 for a used one?

Along the same lines, how difficult is it to replace the belts on these things?

I like the idea of drilling a drain hole. Just so that I don't drill a hole in my block or something (the way today is going) - this is where I should drill right?



Anyone see any problems with this plan? (other than I'm too lazy to drop the engine)

Just to expand a little on what others have said. The hole you pored the oil through is where you shine a timing light to adjust timing (if you can find those friggin marks...). The marks are on the fan (impeller) that blows air over the motor, and the impeller also drives the alternator belt (and smog pump on late-model 914s). So basically, you dumped oil on the front of your engine. Ordinarily you'd just spray it down w/ some kind of degreaser and hose it off and be done with it. But.... This is an air-cooled engine, so the fan does a lot more than just blow some air over a radiator. The air gets routed through a fairly complicated system of ductwork with thermostatically controlled flaps and other fun-ness, which is absolutely crucial to keeping your engine from overheating. The ductwork also makes everything with oil poured onto it very inaccessible. I don't know enough about it to say whether or not it can be cleaned w/o pulling the engine, but it does need to be cleaned. Oil + dust = thick grime = bad cooling. If it were me, I'd be persistent and try to see if one of the old-timers here has suggestions for cleaning things up w/o an engine drop. That's a lot to ask of a brand new 914 owner, and you should have some fun with this car before you put it up on jackstands. But if it comes down to an engine drop, there's plenty of little things you can do, "while you're there..."

Can you remove the heater air duct I marked? ... if so you may be able to clean much of the oil out. You have the right place marked to drill, but careful not to go too deep.

Thanks guys, I'm getting a better understanding of what's going on now.

Pugbug - I just removed that part - came off pretty easy. I also ran a towel up in there, but it didnt' get too much oil on it.

If I run the car with that part removed (just idling, not on the road) I'm assuming that nothing bad will happen (it appears to just go back to my muffler.

I'm still not going to try and start it today.

I haven't drilled a hole, because it appears with that part removed, I can clean any oil that collects with a towel.

oh yeah, I put about 3.5 quarts in the timing hole, and just emptied the pan that was under the engine - it had about 2 quarts in it.

So I've got a total of 3.5 inside the engine, and 1.5 rolling around the outside.

I'm going to have a beer now

Guess who's heat exchangers are going to be REALLY stinky now?

If you have already drained that much oil into a pan I would disregard the hole drilling and just let it drain. Sounds like it's coming out. Give it at least a full 24 hours.

I think you should start looking for information on how to replace an alternator belt though.

It'll work out.

I've done WAAAY worse than that to my car....

If your car was on stands the whole time then you can consider yourself lucky. That means that the oil is not all the way through your heat exchangers. Also, it means that you can do what you did (remove the S parts) and clean in ther real well. I would get some non aerosol break cleaner like Chem Tool and dump it in there to disolve as much of the oil as possible. When you start your acr the air will blow across the heat exchangers and will stink up the inside of your car so the more oil you remove, the less stinky it willl be.

I did the same thing once. It has been a long time, so I don't remember exactly what I did to fix it. However, I remeber taking off all the access covers, and heat exchanger tubes, etc. (not the exchangers themselves), and cleaned them up. I took off the alternator belt and the alt cover, and cleaned up inside the air box with a rag and stiff wire, etc. This was on my 1.7 motor that lasted about 150,000 miles after my mistake. Good luck. Joe O

Any writeups on how to change the alternator / belt? My haynes manual should be here in the next few days, but if there's something online already, maybe I can get a jump on it.


I also wanted to thank everyone for all the help. I don't think it's as bad as I originally thought.

thanks again!

If its still goofed up in a feww weeks, I'll come down and help ya;)

I don't think it's as bad as I originally thought.

thanks again!
[/quote]

At least yer not gonna have to drop the motor.................................















Yet....

Some day you will...

you know you got TWO of those, right? there's one just like it on the other side.

then there's a rubber boot that goes from the fan housing to the alternator.
take it off BEFORE you run the engine so you don't oil up your alternator.
and don't forget to put all that stuff back on *before* you drive the car.

i predict quite a lot of oil on your cylinders and heads that will burn off and smoke like hell if you don't get in there and clean the fan with brake-cleaner ...

Andy

Yeah, removing the S-shaped ducts on both sides would be my plan of attack. You won't be adding another hole to the metal, and you can still pour whatever solvent you like down the same hole you mistakenly poured the oil in to wash it back out. Do not replace the S-shaped ducts before you start the car, as they will just send the oil and smoke from the burning oil into your heat exchangers and into your passenger compartment if the red heater lever is up. It is certainly going to smoke quite a bit once the engine starts warming up and burning off the oil. You really should replace the alternator belt as others have suggested, but that's not too expensive of a mistake.
It won't hurt the car a bit to drive without the S-ducts in place (except that you won't have heat) and you can put them back on as soon as you've burned off the oil to get your heater working again.

I'm sorry for this , but I can't resist.


From the immortal words of Red Forman:

"you dumbass"


Luckily, you didn't ruin anything other than several quarts of oil and a bunch of paper towels (and perhaps a fan belt).

How many quarts did you pour in there before finding the error of your ways?
(I hope it wasn't 4).

This post belongs in a thread from a while ago "stupidest things I've done while working on my 914". Thanks for sharing, but I personally would never have admitted to have done this. Not in a million years.

Thanks for the laugh, I needed one.

Also, Terry, just in case you're as clueless as I was when I first got my 914 :

The part of the exhaust system you mentioned (and which people have been talking about) are the Heat Exchangers. Since the engine is air cooled, there's no water to air exchanger (aka heater core) so there has to be a (much larger) air to air heat exchanger. The inner tube is the exhaust pipe proper, and surrounding that is an outer pipe for (supposefly) clean air. When you turn on the heat, some of the air that is blown by that fan you oiled goes through the heat exchangers, then gets a boost from an electric fan (at least some years), and runs through tubes in the chassis up to where is gets blown into your face. Hence the concern with smells ......

Just an idea : you may consider actually removing the heat exchangers if it looks like they got oil into them. The very first time you remove them, you may have to deal with rusted nuts and bloody knuckles, but then you replace these (the nuts) with fresh ones, and use some anti-seize (or Milk of Magnesia - do a search) and you'll then have an easy-to-remove exhaust system. I may be crazy, but I like to remove the heat exchangers when I adjust my valves. More work, less frustration. But then again, I don't actually have my heaters hooked up, so its a little less to remove.

Anyway, things are looking promising. Good luck.

I really don't think that you harmed your alternator as it would be pretty much out of the way if one were to pour oil onto the cooling fan.

I would do pretty much as the others have advised (wait and let as much oil drain as possible).

The problem with running it just as it is, is because the car is air cooled, and the fan blowing the cooling air over the cylinders and heads is oily now, oil wil sling with the fan spinning creating an oil mist in the cooling air. This oily air will deposit oil on all the cooling fins on the cylinders and heads. The oil will attract and hold dirt which will help to insulate the engine from the cooling air. This will make the engine run hotter. That is the real danger. How much hotter, nobody can tell, but it will end up running hotter.

Clean the spilled oil up the best you can with some sort of solvent and wait for as much to drip out as you can. The more the better.

Hang in there and again, I don't believe that you harmed your alternator with oil. When your Haynes manual arrives, look at where the alternator is located and you will see what I mean.

Good luck to you and don't take my "dumbass" remark too seriously.


Oh, and by the way, welcome to the club (but you really need to get a set of jackstands)

Just my $0.02

Oops, just re-read my previous post. The reason I suggested removing heat exchangers was to wash the oil out of them if any got in. certainly to to leave them off ! Hope that was clear.

Uhhhhh Might wanna re think that drop the engine suggestion.
Putting oil in the wrong hole might be an indication of a lack of mechanical ability.
Dropping an engine could be an all summer evolution.

Just put the drain pan under the fan housing. Let it sit for a day.
empty out the pan then buy a can of brake cleaner. Spray the whole thing in the fan housing. get it everywhere you can. Remember to put the drain pan under the fan housing again.

If you are not sure what the heck we are talking about GET A BOOK.

I think Mike (Dr Evil) is right. Front of car tipped down = much less distribution of oil. It has to be pooled in the impeller housing. I would take off both the cooling ducts attached there and mop into it, blast it with solvent, and if you are outside, a buncha degreaser then the garden hose blasted into there too. Sure it may throw some oil into the cooling system. It is a 914 after all.

At least you didn't drop a chopstick down the spark plug hole! ROFLMAO! Sounds like you've got everything more or less sorted.

Good luck,

It coulda been worse. You could have put it in the gas tank... or tried to drink it!!

Hence the reason Porsche stopped having external fillers for the dry sump oil tanks....too many ooopsie, that SURE looked like a gas tank comments....

sorry you just gave me my daily gut bustin' laugh. some thing i "might have done" if you didn't do it first, naw i can read kruat.

if you take off both of the branch pieces (the ones that attach at the bottom of the fan housing) , you maybe able to flush the oil remants out pretty well at a coin-op spray and wash. working from around the fan area and letting it drain out. cover the open ends of the heat exchangers before you spray. this would be easier with the engine lid removed. you should keep sticking rags into the housing holes to sop up the oil.

k

Don't forget the check the sheet metal between the impeller housing and the firwall. If any oil slpashed off the fan in probably collected there too.

With 3.5 qt's in there you are going to need alot of brake cleaner. If I may sudjest

first useing diesel fuel to flush out the thick oil(it will thin the oil out and make it
easer to flush) and than use the brake cleaner. And there is a weep hole in the

bottem of the fan shroud already.

I feel for you. I just happen to have my engine pulled from my 74.
Its a 2.0L but I'm assuming that the impeller housing is the same
or very close.

Don't start/run the car just yet.....

Here is front picture of the housing. (Minues front engine tin)
Click to view attachment
The left side of the picture is the passenger side.
After looking at this closely and also looking directly down
the access hole I doubt if you got any oil on the actual front of the engine.
It looks like it will drop straight down through the impeller openings
and pool up inside the housing.
The plate with the timing mark guide is very close to the actual impeller
and for the most part would block oil from running behind the impeller.

Also, what I hadn't remembered is that the drivers side opening
in the housing is much higher and there is some internal ducting that
is part of the housing. Based on this, I think it is very unlikely that
you got any oil in the drivers side heat exchanger or flapper box.
You might want to pull the drivers side heater duct to verify though.

This also means you can't blast anything like cleaner through the housing
from one side and out the other. There isn't a direct path.


Also in looking at the fan and belt closely: (with half front tin in place)
Click to view attachment

There is over an inch between the impeller blades and the edge of the impeller.
The belt would be under this. So it is quite possible that no oil has gotten on the
belt either.
There is a rather large lip on the edge of the impeller that could collect oil.


My guess is that the bulk of the oil if not all of it simply poured straight down
and didn't splash too much. It pooled up in the impeller housing until it
started to run out the passenger side heat exchanger and then poured
out the flapper box. Depending on how clean your housing was and how
well it fits the remainder of the oil might even run out the bottom of the housing
since it splits in half and the split is directly along the bottom.

----------
It all depends on how the oil ran through the opening.
Was the car on jack stands in the rear when the oil pouring occured?
If so, then the oil wouldn't pour straight down and might hit the rim
of impeller and splash a bit.
If it splashed it would pool up in the tin and quite possibly get on the fan belt.
Worst case, all the oil hit the rim of the impeller splashed all over and half filled
the impeller housing and half filled the front engine tin.
AND, the engine tin fits well and still has tight seals and is holding the oil.
(unlikely, but possible)

Things to do:
---------------

You should be able to tell alot by leaning WAY over and looking down
from the top to see how much oil splashed around. Use a mirror and you
should even be able to see inside the impeller and the front engine tin.
(Use one of those mirrors on a extensible stick so as not to drop anything
else inside the impeller)
NOTE: If you haven't already remove the engine lid, it is easy and
there is no way you'll be able to get your head
back far enough to see unless you remove it.

Also, look very closely at the bottom and see where the oil dripped from.
Look for the highest wet spots.
Did the oil run out from the center of the bottom of the impeller housing,
the heater duct work/flapper box,
or did it run out from the bottom or edge of the front engine tin?

Clean all the oil you can through the passenger side opening.
Get a flash light and even look inside, you should be able to clean
it out pretty well as long as you have patience and take your time.
Use some sort of solvent as mentioned. more than likely at least
some of it will run out through the split in the bottom of the housing.

------------------------------
Knowing how much the oil splashed and where it leaked from
will be a guide as to what and how much to clean.

Don't be too quick to start it. Once you start it, any remaining oil will be flung
all over the engine, cylinders, and oil cooler which will attract dirt and
potentially make the engine run hotter.

--- Bill

Good idea So.Cal.914, but then you have the smell of diesel fuel all over. And I personaly think the smell of diesel makes most automotive smells seem like roses comparativly. Also, if you breath too much of it in I think it makes your [um stupid.

Some good advice here. If you need any more help, you know where to find me.

Hey I didn't know you had to change the oil on my first car.

It's ok it was only a z28.

Just wanted to thank everyone. I took off the heat exchangers on both sides of the cover (the s pipes), gave it a day and a half to drain, cleaned with a rag, and fired it up long enough to pull it into the garage (maybe 2 minutes total). No crazy sounds (although I didn't really expect any). More oil came out of the passenger side heat exchanger port, probably a half to full cup, and I got some smoke, but it sounded ok.

I'm going to let it sit in my garage while I repair a good amount of rust, and will report back long term to let you guys know if I need a new alternator, or if the engine is running hot.

thanks for all the help guys.

Hang in there, Terry! I've done stupider things, though maybe not so messy! It's like any other learning event, but look at the number of teachers you have here! Kepp that 914 going. It's really a pretty simple device.

Hey, eventually, after your seals fail, that area will be full of oil anyhow.. just a big mess, but no damage.

I've done some pretty stupid things in the garage. I remember the time I was asked to help a friend change the oil in his truck and I was chosen for my skill and general car knowledge. My friend had his doubts after he saw the huge "Exon Valdez oil slick" I created on his garage floor due to my forgetting to put the drain plug back before filling! I know this didn't create quite the problem you had but it does illustrate how we all can lose our minds from time to time. Don't feel bad.

Diesel fuel evaporates and he was to use brake cleaner afterwards. And it won't make you stupid, but your dick may fall off.

I once left the ECU disconnected after running the lines to my remote oil cooler.

"How come it starts up, turns a few times then dies?"