My son just got his license on Tuesday and drove his '76 914 to school for the first time yesterday. We have had the car for over a year in preparation of his right to drive. The car is very nice, needed very little. Last summer he did remove the wheels and did some paint touch up. After he reinstalled I double checked to make sure all lugs were tight. Not driven again until last week.

So yesterday he drives to school (10 miles) and drives home, no problems. At 5pm he drove back to school for a drum lesson then got back in to come home after the lesson. About a block from school his left rear wheel came off, the rear fender rolled over the tire totally folding it in and at the same time lifted the rear off the ground and spun him accross 3 lanes of traffic. He ended up against the curb in the oncoming trafiic lane stuck. When he came down it must have been hard as it broke both rear mounts off of the trans and destroyed his exhaust. On top of all that his tire proceeded into a rear fender of a car waiting to enter onto the street causig a huge dent.

Here is the thing, all 3 of the 4 lugs were within 20 feet of each other, the forth lug still in the rim. My question for you all is it seems that someone had to intentionally loosen his wheel while at school don't you think? It seems if the lugs were not tightend they would have worked loose and would have come off at different times not all at once like they did. I had just drove the car last week and it was perfectly fine, no vibrations or funny noises. None of the lugs were stripped or damaged and the rim holes are not egg shapped indicating a prolonged period of loosness. So what do you guys think?

The blessing is he was not hurt. If he had been on the freeway (less tha a mile from where it happened) he probably would have flipped and been injured if not killed.

Now I need to steal parts (trans & exhaust) from my other 914 to get him going again not to mention the body work and probably $1000 damage to the other car. Someone either tried to play a joke on him or is really out to get him which scares the hell out of me...

Thanks guys, just looking for verification this was no "accident".

I am sorry to hear this. I am glad your son is ok.

It sure sounds like it was malicious. You would notice loose lug nuts because the wheel will typically wobble and grind if the nuts aren't tight.

What a terrible first day in a 914...

If, and a big if, the lug bolts loosened on their own, there would have been a severe vibration as the wheel came off center while rolling...It should have been highly noticeable...at least that is my opinion.

I once sent a car out on the track after I had changed rims/tires. The first pass I could see the wheel wobble and called for the workers to black flag him. It was my fault as I had not tightened the lugs...but the wheel never came off and this was under racing conditions.

Sounds like some "friends" helped him out. If the lugs were not sheared, ovaled, etc...someone is playing a very dangerous game.

I've had this happen twice to me on cars I flat towed. Each time it was my fault because I brain-farted. And yes the lugs were all within feet of each other, there was no damage to the rims. You really get little warning, it all happens pretty fast. But I was flat towing, not driving. I would hesitate to start looking for malicious people. If I had to guess, your 16yo failed to tighten one of the wheels. I mean, 16yo's will make mistakes.


EDIT: I just re-read your post where you said you double checked the lugs. So... Who knows, I just would be careful about assessing the blame. Maybe the lugs weren't seated well on that wheel even when you checked? I mean you guys were the last "known" hands on that wheel. I hope it is not malicious.

No disrespect to your son but as a NEW driver with zero experience driving, if the wheel was not tighten down he might know what it would feel like as it loosened up……I had a similar experience on my truck . But drove it 30 miles before it worked its way loose… IF that wheel did not get properly torque and the car was driven the wheel will not just fall off with in a mile or two….
What lbs did you torque the wheels too? What are the wheels, stock steel? Fuchs, other?

I'm so sorry about your son's misfortune..... all things considered, I'm glad no one was hurt.

With that said,........ it's a classis Porsche

It draws a lot of attention

Particularly amongst kids

I can just see a couple punks out smoking a cigarrette in the parking lot going "what the hell is that car?"

"Ha Ha...... we'll show the rich kid"

etc..... etc.....

Maybe it wasn't directly malicious toward him...... it could have been random...... but it was without a DOUBT malicious.

I know he's going to be upset..... but I wouldn't advise he drive it to school anymore.

Sucks..... some assholes just have no respect for anything.

if fuchs/mahles/pedrini's,

did you use the LONGER lug bolts?

Thanks for the replies. We are thankful he or no one else was hurt. It's just parts and money.

True my son was a licensed driver for just 1 day but has been driving for a year now, we live outside the town in a rural area so he got lots of supervised miles. He has also been racing go karts since he was 8, all the way up to shifter karts. We once forgot to tighten one of our kart wheels and well into the race a terrible vibration began but with only two laps left you can't come in so finished the race and the wheel sheered off the hub on the way to the pits. But it vibrated big for 2 laps with over 8 turns, a chicane and a straight away and he knew something was wrong.

Also true my son probably had his stero up very loud. He said he felt a small vibration right before it happened but nothing otherwise. And like I said I drove it the week before to and from circuit city (12 miles each way) with the radio off and no vibration at all.

The wheels are fuchs and when I checked them I did with a breaker bar so didn't set an accurate torque but I am quit sure they were tight. I am mechanically inclined, have restored a couple of cars and do all my own work. But anything is possible. But I would expect some thread damage or evidence of slopiness around the rim lug holes.

My wife just called and said she has reported it to school security. They said kids tend to talk so word may get around. Then again it could have been a freak deal. But if this kind of thing can occur like it did I am going to safety wire two of 4 lugs on each rim for peace of mind.

Thanks again,
Jim

No sure about the length of the lug bolts, thanks for the thought. Will check that when I get home today and start the repair process...

Unfortunately, we had a similar experience, although not mechanical, with our son on the frist day he drove his 914 to school. When he came home all proud that he had driven to school and back on his school permit, his dad spoiled the fun by pointing out several dings in the body that weren't there when he left for school that morning. He had parked it way out of the way so that wouldn't happen, but it was also away from any watchful eyes that could see it. Turned out some of the football team decided that it was a nice target and started throwing rocks at it. One of the girls at school happen to see them and the word got back to my daughter. The school authorities did absolutely nothing. They were star football players after all.

I hope you reported the incident to the proper authorities, and have a uniformed officer at the school checking out your son's car. You will find out evenutally who did it. Young people have a real hard time keeping a secert, and some even like to brag.

Know this doesn't help, but knowing things like this happen are, unfortunately, a part of growing up.

Tom Cooper

Measure those lug bolts... could be the culprit.

IIRC (and I am sure someone will correct me). Fuchs require the 100mm studs. If not wheel fall off go boom.

ps... glad your son is OK. In the end it is really all that matters.

i recently brain farted and drove my 914 with 4 VERY loose lugnuts.
I drove the car 100+ miles (at high speeds) before I realized i never tightened the lugs after my repair. I lost one lug, and the other 3 were severely loose. But i did not lose all four, and all 3 started out loose.

Do as Aaron said and check the measurement of the lugs on the remaining wheels. The FUCH lugs are noticeably longer than any other lug.
Perhaps someone can post a comparison photo?

I will check those lugs. On my other 914 it has aftermaket wheels and I remember some of the wheels on it had a mixture of different size lugs but didn't know why. The guy I got it from propably had the "use whats handy" approach.

Your experience with loose lugs is exactly what I would expect, a more prolonged process...

Fine-

You are going to make me admit to this. I am a dumbass

Last June I lost the driver side rear wheel. There was a very light "thump" a few times before on accel or decel. No vibration before it was too late. No rear wobble or grinding and the lug bolts were found within a foot of each other. I was pulling to the side of the road to check out the thumping. One lug bolt was still holding the wheel to the car. The brake caliper was resting on the inside of the rim.

I had driven it several times between taking the wheel off and the wheel coming off or had any signs of it being loose. I don't think my wife is out to get me, so I do not suspect sabatoge. All other wheels were tight.

I have been in the habit of "seating" the lugbolt then lowering the car to the ground to tighten them. The only thing I can figure is I bound the wheels between the lugbolt and the ground and the ball seat seated to the front of the rim or a little loose. BTW- short lugbolts on a steel rim.

Glad to hear that no one was hurt.

I'd keep an ear out. Kids do stupid things in HS, but I suspect this was an unforunate accident.

Thanks Matt, could have happened just like yours then. I would be relieved knowing there is not someone out to hurt my son.

Come to think of it though, my daughter was a bit put out when she was asked to give up her garage spot for the 914? Course the bolts would be all chewed up by the pliers she used to loosen the lugs...

Sorry to hear about your son's 914.

Seems like 914 losing wheels isn't too rare. My new 74 had one of those incidents with the PO.

I almost had a front wheel come off on my 71. I noticed a vibration, turned around to go home and had to stop 200 yards from my house as the front wheel was ready to come off. There were only 2 lugs left on and they were very loose. I had hubcaps so I didn't lose any lugs. In less than 1 mile, I went from no vibration at all to horrendous vibration and almost losing the wheel. BTW, it was about 1 week after I had removed the wheel and re-tightened and driven the car almost every day.

I think 914s are prone to losing wheels because the hubs don't have centering rings. Not only do these keep the wheel in the center of the hub, but they support the weight of the vehicle. Without the centering rings, the lugs take all the weight and tend to come off and come off quickly.

Spoke

I too am glad your son wasn't hurt.
The same thing happened to me about a year ago. Did a valve adjustment and forgot to torque down the driver side wheel. 30 miles to work(20 on the highway) and 50 feet from the parking lot the wheel dropped. The only warning I got was one creek sound about 50 feet before I lost the wheel.
One lug gone
One lug chewed-up
and the other two were still in the wheel
as far as the threads in the hub, only one needed to be retapped.
I F'N HATE HIGH SHOOL KIDS(anybody need a music teacher in Denver
, but this would be a very different prank than throwing rocks.

Wow, quite a few experienced 3 wheelers. Perhaps checking lug tightness should be a regular maintenance check. Maybe I'll take a couple of pics and post to show how much damage this can do...

Yep, just happen to me this past Sunday Ran AX with my street tire in the rain, never checked the torque on the lug bolts before I left home

I was moving slow in traffice on the way home all of sudden heard this bad grinding sound, worked my way over to a parking lot and the driver fron wheel came off. I haven't had this wheel off my car for months. Needless to say I will check my lugs more often. I only had minor damage, but still

I hope this wasn't malicious but it very well could have been.

In high school my brother had (still does) a 81 Jeep CJ 7. Other then some of the sports cars at school it was the coolest and most well known car in the parking lot. Being well known makes things an easy target for some and one day some a-holes decided that it would be funny to unfasten the hood clamps/hood straps. Well, my brother left the school and headed on down the very steep, twisty road behind the school on the way home. In the middle a turn the hood flew up and he almost drove off of the road into the trees and off the steep hill lining lining the road. There was lots of damage and scared him and his friend sh--tless. Kids talk and he eventually heard through the grapevine who it was.

Never touch another mans wife, his car or his french fries.

I had a Fiat 850 Spider that lost a rear wheel in an intersection. I had just gotten new tires on the rims, and brought them home, installed them and forgot to tighten the rear driver side. I was going slowly, so not too much damage except a mashed oil pan and a slight crease in the rear fender. There was a brief noise and then it was gone. So your son may not have heard it in time to react.

On my 914, my front driver's side was loose. I had driven it to work and was on my way to a customer site and I felt a very pronounced shake. Pulled over and all 4 were loose. Retightened them on the side of the freeway, and it was all good.

I guess with old cars, we need to pay special attention to those kinds of things.

Glad your boy is ok.

I wonder if there might be something to do with hub centric vs. lug centric mounting. I could immagine that with hub centric mounting, there could be enough static friction at the hub ring that a wheel could stay on fairly stright while the lugs rattled loose and then suddenly let go.

Just a thought...

-Josh2

Only the front wheel is hub centric...the rear is as always hell to hang

D'oh, you're right. I started thinking "front" for some reason...

Strange thing is, wheels do fall off. I've seen more than a few, but it's usually old brittish sports cars at a road race or an autox...

Drifiting a little off topic now...

We all know DD's acronym for PORSCHE. Persnickity Old Roadster, Sucks Cash, Helaciously Expensive.

I heard a really good one today for LOTUS. Lots Of Trouble, Usually Serious.

And yes, I've seen more than one Lotus (or would that be Loti) loose a wheel at an autox...

-Josh2

I nearly lost the rear drivers side wheel on my Subaru Outback Sport this march after I swapped my snows out for my regular wheels and tires.

I had gone around and made sure all the lugs were tight, for all four wheels. But one of them had obviously loosened up. It was over a week of driving 90 miles a day. One morning, half way though my commute, I noticed a little shimmy. There was a lot of traffic, and crawling down 83 I descided it was probably just poor road surfacing.

Then it got a lot worse, to I switched lanes and pulled over. All 5 lugs were loose, and when I jacked the car up I could wobble the wheel freely. I was lucky, if I had lost my wheel during the monring rush, my life could have started to really suck that day.

As it was, I jacked it up, tightened everything down, and finished my commute without any more issue. But I also check my lugs every so often to make sure they are all tight.

Zach

to prevent any future tampering of the lug bolts, you could put some locking lug bolts that require a special socket to remove the bolts, or convert to lug nuts all around and then purchase a set(16) of locking lug nuts. Ive had the rear wheel come off before, but luckily we were traveling at a really low speed and the only things damaged was the rear brake dust shield, a little and it was fixed. Just recently i went to get a new set of tires for the rear of my 14' and i wasnt sure if 195/60's would fit in the rear so i had them remove the front tires and install them on the rear to test fit. They fit and after installation i paid and left the place. As i was making the first turn toward home i noticed that one noise from the first loose wheel encounter. I pulled into a parking lot, and wouldnt you know it the guys at the tire shop forgot to tighten the D/S front wheel. Luckily i never go anywhere in the 14' w/out my tool box. Retightened and drove home safely.

...I can't believe how many "914 wheel falling off" stories everyone has to tell! --makes me want to run out to the garage right now and check all of them for the heck of it.

Here's an idea: Could the lugs have been some of those cheap sets that they sell on ebay all the time? When I had asked the forum earlier when I ran across them, I heard from many members that the ball on the lugs didn't match the seat's geometry very well. Something like this could make you think the lugs are tightly seated but actually not seated well at all, thus prone to backing off??

Either way, I'm glad your son is OK. I'm a teacher and I've seen some unbelievably malicious pranks done to other students at school. If your school doesn't do anthing about it (football team)--don't let it rest there. It wouldn't suprise me for a minute that someone played with the lugs.

I've gotten my pencils and pens stolen off of my desk before in grade school.

some BAD things happened at my school though.

b

Good morning all, and thanks for all of the replies...

Well the lugs are plenty long and no didn't buy them from ebay. They are noticably longer than on my other 914, long enough to go through the fuch and all the way through the hub and then some. I pulled some of the damaged pieces off and will post some pics in a bit.

Seems most of the damage occurred when he spun across 3 lanes and hit the curb a$$ first. Totaled the exhaust, broke the trans mounts, bent up one of the exchangers and even bent the front motor mount on one side.

Here is another question: The trans in this car is great, hate to replace it. Since the rear case is damaged, how hard is it to just swap the rear case from another trans? And can I do this with it still in the car. I looked in one of the manuals I have and it says disassembly starts with removal of the rear case. So what will fall out of I remove it? Or would you recommend I remove the trans to have at it?

Thanks again for all the responses, it seems this may just have been a freak accident.

Thanks,
Jim

where in the pnw are you located? do you need another heat exchanger?

k

K - Richland, WA. 3.5 hours east of Seattle.

I would love to keep this car stock but it will come down to cost. If I pull the exhaust off my other 914 then I will do away with the exchangers. If I find a replacement then I have to purchase a new exhanust.

So not sure which way I will go but please send me an email and tell me how much. O need the left one only as the right seems ok. I have a fedex account so shipping would be easy.

Anyone out there have a trashed trans and want to sell just the back cover with the mounting arms?

Thanks,
Jim

Richland WA. Where the *$%# is that?

No way, it must just be us DA Tri-Citians.

I've got to know alot more now, street, school, where you got the car, and I might have some parts for you.

How did the brake caliper fair? I've only got one of those now for 2 cars.

PM and e-mail on the way.

And on the subject, My lug bolts are the stock short ones for the steel rims.


Matt Meyer
Richland WA

Here are some pics of damage...Click to view attachment

oh. 75-76 heat exchangers. it's important. a local member spirited triebor sp?(jim young) has a number of those that would do ya fine. i think he has a correct muffer too. i have a hangar you can have for $0, just mailing costs. no point wasting time fixing the bent one did the wheel get all bent up too? pm sent.

k

k - Thanks for the email, you have a reply. I just got an email from Matt who might have an Ex for me. (Matt I'll call you shortly). I will take the mount, let me know the mailing cost and I can paypal to you.

Matt - happened as he was leaving Hanford High heading south on GW Way was slowing down to make a right at Spengler. He said he was going about 30 when it came off. He ended up against the curb in the southbound lane right accross from 7/11.

The rim is fine, went tire first into a '93 honda accord, left a big dent in rear quarter. Will probably cost more to repair than the car is worth. No way they can match the faded paint...

Thanks,
Jim

whoa, wheel in the pictures is not a Fuch...are you sure the shoulder of the lug bolt is a match with the wheel? if mismatched you would be able to tighten, but, because there is a very small contact point it will collapse at the contact point and you have an instantly loose lug bolt....the lugs for the fuchs are different that the Rivieras shown...?

NO PAYPAL!! . no offense intended. kind of a running conundrum regarding my parts sales.

k

Wow, thanks for the clarification on the wheels. Were advertised as fuchs when we bought it and I don't know enough to question the difference. The lugs seem correct for the wheels however. Nice tapered fit like a steel wheel.

Can anyone help with my trans question. If I pull the rear case cover as it sits what will fall out?

Thanks

Well, I think we can now safely rule out an attempted theft of the wheels . . .

Yes, You can replace the end cover in the car. Best thing to do is to do a search for replacing first gear on this site. You will see whats involved. Or search for Red Beards trans rebuild.
David

Thanks David