I encourage members of PCA Golden Gate, Loma Prieta, Redwood Region and Zone 7 to post comments on the GGR "Online Community" BBS concerning comments made by the GGR Competition Director that the region do away with Ladies Classes in AX and Time Trial events. You can go to this link and see the comments I have made and add your own:

PCA-GGR Online Community

Basically, the proposal to make a proposal is to do away with Ladies classes. The thought is that everyone is the same and we shouldn't differentiate by gender. Doris and I have always tried to recruit more of the wives, girlfriends, significant others of people running at the events to help promote the fun that we share as a couple driving at the events. Doris isn't the quickest driver but she isn't slow either, as she has a Time Trial lap record for women in our 914-6 and has finished as high as 7th place in overall standing at a Zone 7 AX. But in her opinion, which I am expressing for her here, is that on a social and competitive level, most of the women she has tried to recruit for AX events don't want to compete against the men. And since there are only a handful of women competing, it's self fullfilling as a lack ladies participaton will continue.

The bottom line is this decision will be made by a group of track folks without any say so from other memebers. This is not a slam on the governing folks at all. But I suggested why doesn't the board actively advertise and promote recruitment of female members and new members in general. Why not do it at every AX when doing the drivers meeting? Ask the members what they would want to see. Not have a group of people who drive race cars do it because they are the exception to the driving experience, not the rule. Most folks in the club just want to have a nice time and compete in a friendly environment, which includes ladies against ladies. Doris' feelings are that it promote comradarie with the women.

But however you feel, it is best if we hear from several voices, not just a few, for or against the proposal.

I urge you to go to the website and post your comments. The section to look at is under "Rules Proposals".

Thanks,

Doris and Bill Pickering

I'll have to agree with Doris on this one.

At first blush, it seems like having a separate Ladies class isn't a good idea, or necessary. However, a great many women seem to have a problem with the idea of competing directly against their boyfriend/husband. It's also nice to see a husband AND a wife each take home a trophy at the same weekend. Women are usually seriously coerced into coming out in the first place, and if they can place well simply because there are fewer competitors in their class, that often encourages them to continue, and perhaps improve to the point where they're competitive.

So far as I know, women aren't REQUIRED to compete in the Ladies class, so if they don't feel this way, they're perfectly welcome to compete in the "boys" class. If the PCA rules aren't like this (the SCCA rules are), then I'd be in favor of changing the PCA rules to remove the requirement.

My wife doesn't agree with this, and feels there shouldn't be a Ladies class, so YMMV. My wife has also never competed in AX, and I doubt I could convince her to try. I think anything that can encourage more women to come out and play is a good thing, and having Ladies classes seems help.

The real question is what the objective is for the club (whichever one).

Does the club want to encourage woman to compete?

If the answer is yes, as it well should be, then why don’t we ask the women what they would prefer to do? It is critical to get them behind the issue; otherwise the entire process becomes a non-starter.

Their combined voices should be heard.

I like this approach much more than leaving this important question defaulting to members that may have a prejudice viewpoint.

Hi Randal,

This position has been brought up by David Leong, competition director for the GGR. He states his position as hoping the L class goes away. But this is from his position as competition director. We also discussed more women participating and what could be done. He thought that would be a separate issue for the club (board) to address. I agree. But I would submit that the club talk with it's membership before passing a rule discussed by only a few.

Bill P.

P.S. DD....thanks for posting!

Bill,
I posted my 2 cents worth. I feel the ladies should continue to have the option to run Ladies or Open classes.

This has nothing to do with our current Comp director persuing his duties, but cleaning up after the Adhoc comm. and the fact that they did not eliminate the ladies classes last year. They originally wanted to remove them but I think they got bogged down in trying to sell their points proposal to the membership and kind of dropped the ball on the ladies class elimination. IMO.

This is an old topic in GGR and has come up many times in the last 16+ years I have been a member.

As the former competition director I can say that any rule we currently have the helps promote more folks to come out (be the male or female) then leave it ALONE.

Our rules currently give the ladies the option....so leave it that way. If none of the ladies use it then it will die on its on accord.

I just want the over 45 year old group started by next season! Maybe a veterans class?

If PCA clubs wanted to promote womens particpation it would take more than just a seperate class in my opinion. They would need to run a few womens only events.

Bill,

I'd be glad to post on GGR web site, but David's last position on the site is that the rules haven't changed, i.e., woman and open classes still exist.

Am I in the wrong place?

I have never encouraged any female to run in the ladies class. I have always felt they could run with the guy's if they received the same amount of seat time.

I personally dont feel this is any different than a new AutoX or TT person showing up to their first event. Do you start a "newbie" class? No.

I dont see a NASCAR ladies class.. Formula 1.. AMA .... Indy..

This is brutal honestly here.. and for "here" only:

If someone is afraid of running against the "men" they *probably* dont have what it takes to "make it" in a AutoX series. I'll spit it out.. it takes a different person to even attempt this stuff. I'm finding out that not everyone is cut out for it.


B

Hi Randal,

Here is the direct link to the thread. Is this the one you had read?

Link

Thanks,

Bill P.

Hi B,

What is being lost here in my opinion is that the regions tend to position AX as a "come out and have fun event". And you and I are guys. That's what is missing. Why do the ladies not want to compete against the guys? Doris would tell you you're missing the point, cuz your a guy! Get married again and you'll remember what that means....

It's the flip side of the coin. Guys want to race against each other, and most don't get as much satisfaction beating up on the women who can't physically throw a car around. And driving around rubber cones so that you can spend time either as a couple or to compete against other women is the farthest thing from NASCAR, IRL or even GGR TT's.

Your comments are the same mentality of all the guys running the regions. It's GUYS! And you car guys hang out with car girls. But there aren't as many car girls as non-car girls. If it's about competition, let it all hang out. But this is a bigger issue. In my opinion, what needs to be raised is for the Golden Gate Region to decide if they want to be the racer only region (which they already are) or do they want to make the AX series a social series with loose competition or a race series with a stricter interpretation.

But there is no women other than Doris stating an opinion. And the other issue is that if you go to the PCA-GGR website, there's no mention of the proposal. So if we don't talk about it, debate it and ask women.....

I have personal experience with Doris where we started doing this together and she was timid. But as she gained experience and some recognition (Zone 7 Rookie of the Year, Ladies class winner in AX and Time Trials, etc.) she has also developed as a driver. Great instruction has helped (thanks Dan!) and she can do 100MPH+ in a 914 on a race track . But having the option of running against other women and how she stacked up and talking with them after the event is what she enjoyed.

But just my opinion. I just want discussion about it. Once GGR makes a rule change the Zone and neighboring regions follow along, so in reality GGR is making policy for Northern California.

Bill P.

Much better Thanks.

You only have to look as far as the post on GGR forum and here as well to see the problem. If women want a class they need to unite and voice their collective opinions. Right now its a bunch of guys debating the issue.

Aye Grant, thars the rub....

Won't get the ladies debating anything util you can get them out and involved.
Look at the results from any TT or AX that GGR puts on. Probably at least 90+ percent male.

IF we dont give the ladies every opportunity to compete on any level they feel comfortable with, we will continue to have very few.

there are a core of about 4-5 ladies at TT that can whip the butts of anyone there on a regular basis. Probably another 5-8 that compete on a more leasurely basis.
What ever works for each of them is OK by me.
If it means a separate ladies class to keep them coming and bringing some of their lady friends then OK.

Why does GGR continue to think they have to reinvent the wheel every year?

Just leave the bloody rules alone for one bloody year.
We have had enough monumental changes for a while....
Lets just tweek what we already have instead of changing constantly.

I'd even go as far as to say there needs to be a womens only event or two each year. That would help attendance at other events I bet.

Well said Dan!

Bill P.

Grant,

You can't get enough 914's to do an event, let alone an event for women. It's the chicken and egg thing...You need to get more women out to events. Make it attractive somehow. Right now you may get 10 women out at the Millerton Lake event at the end of the year. What could be done is advertise a "bring you wife / girlfriend" event within an event. Do a write up in the newsletters, pick an event and have the women all sign up to run with each other. Make it social, make it special, and make it fun and non threatening.

Bill P.