First off let me say what a great idea to have a racer specific forum. Now on the with the show.
I just finished my 2.0 motor with a lot of Jake's help and parts. I run the car in Historic Production in VARAC racing at Mosprt I tested last weekend at a DE day and found after a 25 minute run that the top of the engine tin was covered and I mean covered in oil. I run a vent tube from each valve cover to a catch bottle and 1 from the oil filler canister. There was no oil in the over flow bottle after the run. The only place I can thing of where the oil is coming from is the cork gasket on the oil filler canister. Can any of the race guys suggest another possible source or solution? Could use some help here as my first race is this weekend.\
GB at Treefort Racing
Full Version: Help,Help,Help
Tough to say. But engines running at full tilt boogy develop alot of crankcase pressure.
I have seen catch cans mounted in the trunk and were very big with baffling in them to prevent or catch the oil before it blows out the filter.
I have seen catch cans mounted in the trunk and were very big with baffling in them to prevent or catch the oil before it blows out the filter.
I had this problem for a while with a new motor.
I ended up putting in a 1.5" vent hose from the oil filler to a catch bottle. That solved the problem.
It's definatly an issue of pressure in the case. You have to figure out how to vent it somehow.
I ended up putting in a 1.5" vent hose from the oil filler to a catch bottle. That solved the problem.
It's definatly an issue of pressure in the case. You have to figure out how to vent it somehow.
I'm going to take a guess that you need to replace your valve cover gaskets..
is it just as wet underneath?
when they blow from pressure, we actually always found a ton of oil on top of the tin too... especially the flat sides of the tin (just outboard of the motor/heads)
brant
is it just as wet underneath?
when they blow from pressure, we actually always found a ton of oil on top of the tin too... especially the flat sides of the tin (just outboard of the motor/heads)
brant
QUOTE(Joe Ricard @ May 10 2006, 05:47 AM) 
Tough to say. But engines running at full tilt boogy develop alot of crankcase pressure.
I have seen catch cans mounted in the trunk and were very big with baffling in them to prevent or catch the oil before it blows out the filter.
There's no doubt that the crankcase develops alot of pressure at 7000 rpm's. Is there method of venting the pressure?
QUOTE(brant @ May 10 2006, 06:10 AM)
I'm going to take a guess that you need to replace your valve cover gaskets..
is it just as wet underneath?
when they blow from pressure, we actually always found a ton of oil on top of the tin too... especially the flat sides of the tin (just outboard of the motor/heads)
brant
Brant,
The valve cover gaskets are new and bone dry. there's no oil coming from the bottom of the motor. Most of the oil gathers on top of the block between the tins. That makes me think it's puking out of the oil filler cork gasket under pressure.I also run a line from the top of the oil filler canister to a catch bottle, but the bottle is dry.
The oil filler line has a PCV valve on it. Never did understand those on and engine.
Brant,
The valve cover gaskets are new and bone dry. there's no oil coming from the bottom of the motor. Most of the oil gathers on top of the block between the tins. That makes me think it's puking out of the oil filler cork gasket under pressure.I also run a line from the top of the oil filler canister to a catch bottle, but the bottle is dry.
[/quote]
well thats probably good news then.
are your breather hoses on the heads attatched with hose clamps?
we once had to install barbed fitting into our heads and hose clamps to keep our breather hoses tight...
but you would know if yours are blowing off or blowing by.. just from looking at them. Those breathers are my 2nd guess
I just never had any problems what so ever with that gasket on the filler neck.
but it would be easy to replace if that is suspect.
you might even be able to tighten the bail that holds it on.
one more thought.
Hugely important I learned.
on every single one of your breather hoses, you must make certain that there are no dips or low spots in their path from the motor to the bottle.
It took us a while to figure this one out.
but ours used to be laid in the engine bay loosely without careful enough routing and would have dips in them. Oil used to pool in these low spots and then effectively block the breathing action. Since the crankcase could no longer breath, it would pop the hoses off. We fixed this probem by attatching our hoses rigidly with mounts so that they were held into place in a way that there could not be any dips or low spots.
even though your bottle is dry, it doesn't mean that the breather hoses aren't flowing a ton. If they are routed correctly using gravity, they drain all the blowby oil back into the case and not into your bottle. I'm still using my 2nd guess that your oil is coming from one of the hoses...
brant
The valve cover gaskets are new and bone dry. there's no oil coming from the bottom of the motor. Most of the oil gathers on top of the block between the tins. That makes me think it's puking out of the oil filler cork gasket under pressure.I also run a line from the top of the oil filler canister to a catch bottle, but the bottle is dry.
[/quote]
well thats probably good news then.
are your breather hoses on the heads attatched with hose clamps?
we once had to install barbed fitting into our heads and hose clamps to keep our breather hoses tight...
but you would know if yours are blowing off or blowing by.. just from looking at them. Those breathers are my 2nd guess
I just never had any problems what so ever with that gasket on the filler neck.
but it would be easy to replace if that is suspect.
you might even be able to tighten the bail that holds it on.
one more thought.
Hugely important I learned.
on every single one of your breather hoses, you must make certain that there are no dips or low spots in their path from the motor to the bottle.
It took us a while to figure this one out.
but ours used to be laid in the engine bay loosely without careful enough routing and would have dips in them. Oil used to pool in these low spots and then effectively block the breathing action. Since the crankcase could no longer breath, it would pop the hoses off. We fixed this probem by attatching our hoses rigidly with mounts so that they were held into place in a way that there could not be any dips or low spots.
even though your bottle is dry, it doesn't mean that the breather hoses aren't flowing a ton. If they are routed correctly using gravity, they drain all the blowby oil back into the case and not into your bottle. I'm still using my 2nd guess that your oil is coming from one of the hoses...
brant
[quote name='brant' date='May 10 2006, 07:14 AM' post='680551']
Brant,
The valve cover gaskets are new and bone dry. there's no oil coming from the bottom of the motor. Most of the oil gathers on top of the block between the tins. That makes me think it's puking out of the oil filler cork gasket under pressure.I also run a line from the top of the oil filler canister to a catch bottle, but the bottle is dry.
[/quote]
well thats probably good news then.
are your breather hoses on the heads attatched with hose clamps?
we once had to install barbed fitting into our heads and hose clamps to keep our breather hoses tight...
but you would know if yours are blowing off or blowing by.. just from looking at them. Those breathers are my 2nd guess
I just never had any problems what so ever with that gasket on the filler neck.
but it would be easy to replace if that is suspect.
you might even be able to tighten the bail that holds it on.
one more thought.
Hugely important I learned.
on every single one of your breather hoses, you must make certain that there are no dips or low spots in their path from the motor to the bottle.
It took us a while to figure this one out.
but ours used to be laid in the engine bay loosely without careful enough routing and would have dips in them. Oil used to pool in these low spots and then effectively block the breathing action. Since the crankcase could no longer breath, it would pop the hoses off. We fixed this probem by attatching our hoses rigidly with mounts so that they were held into place in a way that there could not be any dips or low spots.
even though your bottle is dry, it doesn't mean that the breather hoses aren't flowing a ton. If they are routed correctly using gravity, they drain all the blowby oil back into the case and not into your bottle. I'm still using my 2nd guess that your oil is coming from one of the hoses...
brant
[/quote]
Brant,
I've checked the routing of the breather hoses and there's no dips or loose gear clamps.The hoses are rigidly fastened and the catch bottle is located higher then the path of the hoses allowing the excess oil to drain back into the engine.I was thinking of drilling a hole in the oil filler cap and running a vent tube to a catch bottle to allow any pressure to escape.You've never had any problems with the cork gasket on the canister?
Regards GB
Brant,
The valve cover gaskets are new and bone dry. there's no oil coming from the bottom of the motor. Most of the oil gathers on top of the block between the tins. That makes me think it's puking out of the oil filler cork gasket under pressure.I also run a line from the top of the oil filler canister to a catch bottle, but the bottle is dry.
[/quote]
well thats probably good news then.
are your breather hoses on the heads attatched with hose clamps?
we once had to install barbed fitting into our heads and hose clamps to keep our breather hoses tight...
but you would know if yours are blowing off or blowing by.. just from looking at them. Those breathers are my 2nd guess
I just never had any problems what so ever with that gasket on the filler neck.
but it would be easy to replace if that is suspect.
you might even be able to tighten the bail that holds it on.
one more thought.
Hugely important I learned.
on every single one of your breather hoses, you must make certain that there are no dips or low spots in their path from the motor to the bottle.
It took us a while to figure this one out.
but ours used to be laid in the engine bay loosely without careful enough routing and would have dips in them. Oil used to pool in these low spots and then effectively block the breathing action. Since the crankcase could no longer breath, it would pop the hoses off. We fixed this probem by attatching our hoses rigidly with mounts so that they were held into place in a way that there could not be any dips or low spots.
even though your bottle is dry, it doesn't mean that the breather hoses aren't flowing a ton. If they are routed correctly using gravity, they drain all the blowby oil back into the case and not into your bottle. I'm still using my 2nd guess that your oil is coming from one of the hoses...
brant
[/quote]
Brant,
I've checked the routing of the breather hoses and there's no dips or loose gear clamps.The hoses are rigidly fastened and the catch bottle is located higher then the path of the hoses allowing the excess oil to drain back into the engine.I was thinking of drilling a hole in the oil filler cap and running a vent tube to a catch bottle to allow any pressure to escape.You've never had any problems with the cork gasket on the canister?
Regards GB
no I never had that cork gasket fail.
but would be supper easy to replace.
also... I think I hear of people removing the pcv valve and gutting them.
I know the early versus late cars had the valve only on the late cars
(you may or may not have a valve then)
but either way make sure your valve is gutted and it might flow more air through it.
brant
but would be supper easy to replace.
also... I think I hear of people removing the pcv valve and gutting them.
I know the early versus late cars had the valve only on the late cars
(you may or may not have a valve then)
but either way make sure your valve is gutted and it might flow more air through it.
brant
Brant,
I've replaced the cork gasket and sealed with RTV then driledl the oil filler cap for a vent hose. The check valve was removed long ago from the canister and replaced with a vent hose. I've also drilled the valve covers and running 2 hoses to a second catch bottle. Apparently this reliefs a huge amount of pressure. Im testing next weekend and I'll see if this all works. NOTE, do not " T " any of the connections apparently it reduces the flow by 50% after the connection. It's important to run individual vent lines.
I've replaced the cork gasket and sealed with RTV then driledl the oil filler cap for a vent hose. The check valve was removed long ago from the canister and replaced with a vent hose. I've also drilled the valve covers and running 2 hoses to a second catch bottle. Apparently this reliefs a huge amount of pressure. Im testing next weekend and I'll see if this all works. NOTE, do not " T " any of the connections apparently it reduces the flow by 50% after the connection. It's important to run individual vent lines.
I had a similar problem with an oil leak at the oil filler. It turned out that the sealling surfave of the oil filler had a wow in it and the gasket would slip out and oil would leak. If you still have a problem I'd check the sealling surfaces.
New engine, are the rings seated? My nickies with JE rings took about 2000 miles on the road and a bunch of thrashing to seat. A leakdown test might be helpful.
Dave
New engine, are the rings seated? My nickies with JE rings took about 2000 miles on the road and a bunch of thrashing to seat. A leakdown test might be helpful.
Dave
QUOTE(GBallantine @ May 20 2006, 06:18 AM)
Brant,
I've replaced the cork gasket and sealed with RTV then driledl the oil filler cap for a vent hose. The check valve was removed long ago from the canister and replaced with a vent hose. I've also drilled the valve covers and running 2 hoses to a second catch bottle. Apparently this reliefs a huge amount of pressure. Im testing next weekend and I'll see if this all works. NOTE, do not " T " any of the connections apparently it reduces the flow by 50% after the connection. It's important to run individual vent lines.
bump for results...
brant
Hi GB,
I have the exact same problem as you,I've added a second hose on the other side of my breather that goes directly to the catch tank and I'm still getting oil coming from the gasket area of the breather I beleave from around 6 to 7 rpm, in normal street driving condition the problem doesn't occur, only in track and racing condition. It was still there this last weekend at NHIS (Loudon).
I'm thinking of maybe getting rid of that spring that clamps down the breather and make some kind of bolt down device for proper sealing so that the flow of oil & pressure goes straigt to the catch can with out any leaks.Again the system works great in normal sreet driving, it just doesn' seem to be designed for racing applications.
BTW ,great forum! My firts time here, I race with GB in VARAC also, you guys should hear more from me in the futur.
cheers,
Martin
I have the exact same problem as you,I've added a second hose on the other side of my breather that goes directly to the catch tank and I'm still getting oil coming from the gasket area of the breather I beleave from around 6 to 7 rpm, in normal street driving condition the problem doesn't occur, only in track and racing condition. It was still there this last weekend at NHIS (Loudon).
I'm thinking of maybe getting rid of that spring that clamps down the breather and make some kind of bolt down device for proper sealing so that the flow of oil & pressure goes straigt to the catch can with out any leaks.Again the system works great in normal sreet driving, it just doesn' seem to be designed for racing applications.
BTW ,great forum! My firts time here, I race with GB in VARAC also, you guys should hear more from me in the futur.
cheers,
Martin
Hi MB,
According to Jake Raby this oil puking problem thru the oil canister is very common on race motors, especially over 5,500 rpm's. A street car you can drive all day with no issues. The recommendation is to make an aluminum canister with a 3/4 " outlet and secure it to the case with Loctite 518. If you plan on making something up ... build one for me. I'm testing this Sunday at Mosport. I'll let you know how my system works out. Are you going to Shannonville?
GB
According to Jake Raby this oil puking problem thru the oil canister is very common on race motors, especially over 5,500 rpm's. A street car you can drive all day with no issues. The recommendation is to make an aluminum canister with a 3/4 " outlet and secure it to the case with Loctite 518. If you plan on making something up ... build one for me. I'm testing this Sunday at Mosport. I'll let you know how my system works out. Are you going to Shannonville?
GB
No I'm not doing SMP, my next one will be the festival at Mosport.
Is it possible to see this aluminum canister somehow?
At my end I'll try to make bolt down bracket that will replace the spring clamp that holds the breather down.
Good luck at Mosport.
MB
Hey MB,
Good news from yesterday's test session. I ran all day at 5500 to 7000 rpm with not a drop of oil to be found on the engine case or tin. Drilling the valve covers and running vent hoses to a bottle was the solution.Works fantastic. See you at the Festival.
GB
Good news from yesterday's test session. I ran all day at 5500 to 7000 rpm with not a drop of oil to be found on the engine case or tin. Drilling the valve covers and running vent hoses to a bottle was the solution.Works fantastic. See you at the Festival.
GB
Good stuff!
What size hoses did you use?
MB
MB,
I ran 5/8 ths od. Not much room on the top of the valve covers for anything larger.
GB
I ran 5/8 ths od. Not much room on the top of the valve covers for anything larger.
GB
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