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Trekkor
I have used many. dry.gif ( $$$ )

Falken Azenis-YokoA032r-Hoosier A3s04 and R3s03-Kumho710's.

I like the 710's the best. Mine are not sticking on the a/x track like when they were new. Too many heat cycles.

I need to keep one set for a/x and another for the track.
Hoosiers are on closeout sale right now, I have a pair of two hour old Yok A048's and Toyo RA-1's are another good choice.

What seems to work for you?

Slicks are always an option, too.


KT

Joe Ricard
Sanctioned events probably have a spec tire or a limitation by class or run group.

I have R3SO4 for the event this weekend. I don't expect them to last past the one day.

Next set of tires will be take off slicks.
Aaron Cox
trekk, whats the story with the "misting" of the vracers between runs? would that help you out with longevity?
jhadler
Some tire compounds are designed to heat up quicker than others. There's an optimal temperature range for the tires, and if they retain too much heat between runs, they start to go off, and get slippery. The spraying of water on the hot tires cools them down, so they don't overheat durring the next run.

Some tires are better than others at handling heat. Falken Azenis tires for example, you'd think would be fine. They're not super sticky race tires right? Bzzt. They begin to go off at surprisingly low temperatures compared to a race tire. So even those tires often need spraying down between runs, especially on heavier cars...

-Josh2
SirAndy
i went from crappy street tires straight to goodyear racing schlicks ...

GoodYear R250, yeah baby! aktion035.gif


i'll *never* go back to any DOT anything, victo what, kuhme who ....
driving.gif Andy
J P Stein
I started on hardball street tires....205s at both ends.
Then:
Victor racers 205 & 225s
Hoosier R3SO3 225s at both ends. I learned about the longevity of tires on 914s
from the first 2 types
Hoosier A3SO4 225 at both ends
Hoosier 10 X 22 X 16 R35 slicks both ends
Hoosier 10 X 22 X 16 R35 R & 9.5 X 23 X 15s F Both in R35.
grantsfo
Kuhmo 710s for me. I still need to drive to events and 710s are bare minmum before I go to race slicks. Quite a few people drove on 710's to the SCCA event I drove in this past weekend. They reported having few problems driving shot distances on these tires.

What are race slick equivalent to 265/45/16 and 225/50/16? Where is best place to buy race slicks? I'd love to run the last couple events this season on real race tires.
J P Stein
QUOTE(grantsfo @ May 16 2006, 11:29 PM) *

Kuhmo 710s for me. I still need to drive to events and 710s are bare minmum before I go to race slicks. Quite a few people drove on 710's to the SCCA event I drove in this past weekend. They reported having few problems driving shot distances on these tires.

What are race slick equivalent to 265/45/16 and 225/50/16? Where is best place to buy race slicks? I'd love to run the last couple events this season on real race tires.


Slicks are problimatic, size wise.
The cantilevers are made 7/8 X 15 wheels.
Normal slicks are big & go bigger.....generally, they take a wheel
the same width as the tire......10 inch tire, 10 inch wheel.....these are smallish.
.....metric cross section would be in the 255 range.
Compounds from from one make to another don't have any relationship that I can discover....but for AX, you want the softest they make.

Hoosier's & Goodyear's website list the sizes available.....and their not getting cheeper

J P Stein
[/quote]

So if I have 8" fronts and 9" rears and run 265 in back and 225 in front what would specific sizes be? I need to be careful not to go much wider than the metric sizes as my fronts just barely rub when I make shrp turns and rearss are real close to rubbing.
[/quote]



You don't say what diameter wheel you are using.
Cantilevers are for a 15 inch wheel. I don't wanna lead you astray
cause, frankly, I don't know what will or won't fit to your application.
You * should* be able to fit something like Andy is using on his similarly flared car.
Those are not the smallest slick Hoosier has.....but it's close.


Go here for the Hoosier selection:
https://www.hoosiertire.com/rrtire.htm

You'll have to search for Goodyear stuff as I don't have that bookmarked.
Trekkor
Grant, since you are running five lug. get a second set of rims.
Aren't a set of 7x15 Cookies around $200?

Randal may be able to help you find tires.


KT
SandyI
Just ran my first event at Streets of Willow on 235/255 Toyo RA1's on 17" Fikse wheels under my GT flares. The RA1's work great in the heat at Streets. (It was about 95 on Monday. Hate to think how much hotter it will be for the next POC event at the end of June.)
Joe Ricard
Andy's cantilevered slicks MUST be mounted on 7" wheels.
I will be fighting this also when it comes time to buy the next set of tires.
my Diamond wheels are 8" wides and my centerlines are 8.5" wide
The slicks I have on the Centerlines are barely suitable for AX. I highly doubt they wil stand up to track stuff. Hoosier C3000 22 X 9.5 X15 compound R25 designed for Formula Atlantic cars.

Guess I need to bite the bullet and buy some 7" wheels
J P Stein
QUOTE(Joe Ricard @ May 18 2006, 04:12 AM) *

Andy's cantilevered slicks MUST be mounted on 7" wheels.
I will be fighting this also when it comes time to buy the next set of tires.
my Diamond wheels are 8" wides and my centerlines are 8.5" wide
The slicks I have on the Centerlines are barely suitable for AX. I highly doubt they wil stand up to track stuff. Hoosier C3000 22 X 9.5 X15 compound R25 designed for Formula Atlantic cars.

Guess I need to bite the bullet and buy some 7" wheels


8s work better.
SirAndy
QUOTE(Joe Ricard @ May 18 2006, 04:12 AM) *

Andy's cantilevered slicks MUST be mounted on 7" wheels.
he's correct!
the goodyear slicks don't stretch. they are designed for one rim width only!

the ones i run (R250 in 15 x 9) *ONLY* (and i mean ONLY) fit on a 15x7 wheel ...

the sidewalls are so stiff that the tire can not be stretched ...
smile.gif Andy
J P Stein
Sorry, Andy, but that is not correct.
You may think/do what ever you want, tho biggrin.gif

You want pics of a guy that runs Goodyear cantis on 8s and has been doing it for years?
I'm doing it now with Hoosiers....and yes, there is a good reason for doing so....
not that you would be interested since it can't be done. biggrin.gif
Joe Ricard
QUOTE(J P Stein @ May 18 2006, 01:36 PM) *

Sorry, Andy, but that is not correct.
You may think/do what ever you want, tho biggrin.gif

You want pics of a guy that runs Goodyear cantis on 8s and has been doing it for years?
I'm doing it now with Hoosiers....and yes, there is a good reason for doing so....
not that you would be interested since it can't be done. biggrin.gif



OK old guy, Pm me with the details. So far you have a damn good track record of givng me good advice.

as evidenced by my car being fast as hell.
SirAndy
QUOTE(J P Stein @ May 18 2006, 11:36 AM) *

Sorry, Andy, but that is not correct.

no sir, you are mistaken on that one. they might make them for 8" rims, i don't know.
but i do know for sure that they CAN NOT be stretched ...

here's a link to the goodyear PDF for the EAGLE slicks. also, see attached picture, they only show ONE rim-size, no range, one size only ...

http://www.racegoodyear.com/pdf/2006_price...sports_spec.pdf

smile.gif Andy
Trekkor
I'm pretty sure the chart is showing specs for the tire on the rim it was mounted on.
All charts are this way.

EDIT: Most charts are this way. I don't know anything about the tires you run.

The tire has to stretch...Otherwise it would be *impossible* to install chairfall.gif


popcorn[1].gif



KT
SirAndy
QUOTE(trekkor @ May 18 2006, 09:04 PM) *

I'm pretty sure the chart is showing specs for the tire on the rim it was mounted on.


ok all you smartasses out there obviously know more about those specific tires than the manufacturer ...

trek, have you *ever* looked at a tire-chart in your life? if you had, you would know that you get a "range" of possible rim-widths. do you see a range anywhere on that chart i posted?
have you ever touched the bulge sidewall of a goodyear slick? did you know that you could probably hammer a nail into a 2x4 with that sidewall? any idea how *hard* that damm thing is? ever looked at the design of the goodyear slicks? ever wondered how they can have ~10" of contact patch mounted on a 7" rim? ever crossed your mind that this might be a "special" design to get around the the racing rules that don't allow wider rims but didn't specify the actual tire size?

the attached picture doesn't give you a great view of the sidewall, but it's shaped like a c-clamp and the sidewall is as hard as a rock.

i have no clue what JP does with hoosiers and other brands and i don't care. i never said anything about other slicks, just the goodyears i'm running.

let me sum up for you what i have learned about the GoodYear G19 Eagle slicks:

THEY FIT ONLY ONE RIM SIZE

is this clear enough for you?
confused24.gif Andy
Trekkor
Easy, Killer...

Now bring me a drink.


KT
grantsfo
Yep Summit says 7 inch only

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.a...15&autoview=sku

My Kuhmo 710s arrived today - very nice!
SirAndy
QUOTE(grantsfo @ May 18 2006, 11:01 PM) *

Yep Summit says 7 inch only


QUOTE
Minimum Recommended Rim Width (in): 7.00 in.
Maximum Recommended Rim Width (in): 7.00 in.



how about that?
owned.gif Andy
nebreitling
i've heard of people mounting canti's on everything from 6-8" wide wheels. look at hoosier's tire charts, and you'll see a range of 6-8", with 7" being recommended.

goodyear may be different. but whatever.
nebreitling
btw, nieslony runs his rear goodyear cantis on 8" rims, and his front on 7".
SirAndy
QUOTE(nebreitling @ May 19 2006, 09:18 AM) *

but whatever
i'm sorry that i feel so strongly about this, but that's the kind of attitude that kills people ...

as stated in my previous posts, i know nothing about the hoosier slicks, or kuhmos or whatever. that's why i don't make any comments on those ...

racing is dangerous enough already the way it is. recommending to stretch a racing slick on a rim it was not designed for is just plain stupid and a recipe for a tragedy.

- best case scenario: nothing happens, all is fine

- worst case scenario: the tire comes off the rim at 120mph at searspoint and the guy dies


is this really what you're after? if so, remind me to never share the big track with you guys, as i value my life ...

it's one thing to substitute homedepot for a raceshop when it comes to accessories, but playing/cutting corners with the very thing that keeps you in a straight line at 120mph is just plain stupid.

and recommending it to other people is borderline criminal ...


again, look at the picture i posted on the previous page. all but one tire are designed for a 7" rim. 7" rim *only*. this was done to accomodate the club racing rules that only allow up to 7" rims for some of the more popular racing classes.

both of you guys, trekkor & nathan (i don't know about JP) have never even run goodyear slicks yourself.
how can you even make a statement like that? what if a newbie comes in here and see's your postcounts and thinks you actually know what you're talking about. and then ends up dead a month later ...

did i mention that i feel very strongly about this?
safety should always come first on anything track related, not your ego ...
beerchug.gif Andy
nebreitling
okay, but i feel it's fairly extreme to construe my 'whatever' statement as criminal negligence. Rather, i intended it as a disclaimer to the effect that:

a) i have not run these tires, but am considering doing so

cool.gif i have seen and heard (countless times) of rims from 6-8" being used on cantis with NO anecdotes of failure due to rim width

c) i specifically disclaimed goodyear from the discussion

d) i have absolutely zero ego on the line with regards to this argument.


so there!! :beer:
DanT
popcorn[1].gif
SirAndy
QUOTE(nebreitling @ May 19 2006, 11:27 AM) *

i have seen and heard (countless times) of rims from 6-8" being used on cantis with NO anecdotes of failure due to rim width

i was talking explicitly about the goodyear slicks, so i can't and won't speak for any other brad cantilever slicks ...

again, anybody who promotes the use of *goodyear* slicks on rims other than the size listed by the manufacturer just lost all their credibility will me, no matter how old you are or how much experience you might have otherwise ...

you're playing with peoples lives ...
dry.gif Andy
Trekkor
I don't recall ever recommending anyone do anything with the Goodyears...I made a few wiseguy remarks, I give you that. naughty.gif

I've spent a good amount of time looking at tire charts for nearly every tire manufacturer.

Most give acceptable rim sizes and measurements on a specific rim size.
http://rogerkrausracing.com/GY1.html

KT
jhadler
It's not directly specific to the issue of stretching cantilever tires onto wider rims, but this tire tech article at RS racing is very handy...

Tire Tech

Ron Vermulm is the guy behind RS racing, a really nice guy...

-Josh2
SirAndy
QUOTE(trekkor @ May 19 2006, 01:12 PM) *

Most give acceptable rim sizes and measurements on a specific rim size.
http://rogerkrausracing.com/GY1.html

i must be blind! sad.gif

i count 4 (four!) out of at least 100 tires that give a "range" of accepteable rim sizes, *all* other tires are for one (and i mean one!) rim-size only ...

please tell me what you see on that chart that i don't ...
confused24.gif Andy
Trekkor
My "most" was not for just that chart. I mean most charts.

KT
SirAndy
QUOTE(trekkor @ May 19 2006, 02:33 PM) *

My "most" was not for just that chart. I mean most charts.

ok, so we agree then? smile.gif yes, most charts, especially street tires, give you a range of acceptable rim sizes for a tire. i agree, no problem there ...

for the goodyear slicks, however, the manufacturer is very clear about the fact that their slicks only fit *one* size rim, and not a whole range of rims.

please, do *not* stretch your goodyear slicks onto a rim size that it is not approved for by the manufacturer. please.

and if you do, or think it's acceptable to do so, please stay away from me on the track ...
KMA.gif Andy
jhadler
Here's the thing...

There's a WORLD of difference between racing slicks and DOT radial tires. They are totally different creatures.

Just a quick outline: Radial tires are very rigid along the treadface, and relatively soft along the sidewalls. This means that the tires can fit onto a "range" of rim widths without grossly distorting the treadface. Bias ply tires are very ridig along the sidewalls, and very soft at the treadface. This means that the treadface (contact patch) will distort if you mount the tire on a rim width that it was not designed for. _SOME_ slicks can work with a range of rim widths, depending on the manufacturer, and others most assuredly CANNOT.

These are just the gross manufacturing differences between the two. Needless to say, the radical construction differences mean that suspension setup and driving technique much change between the two. And anyone that says otherwise hasn't optimized their setup on either side...

-Josh2
SirAndy
QUOTE(jhadler @ May 19 2006, 02:49 PM) *

Just a quick outline: Radial tires are very rigid along the treadface, and relatively soft along the sidewalls. This means that the tires can fit onto a "range" of rim widths without grossly distorting the treadface. Bias ply tires are very ridig along the sidewalls, and very soft at the treadface. This means that the treadface (contact patch) will distort if you mount the tire on a rim width that it was not designed for. _SOME_ slicks can work with a range of rim widths, depending on the manufacturer, and others most assuredly CANNOT.

that about sums it up and that's all i have to say about this ... i'm done ... do as you please, but stay away from me while i'm out there ...

good luck!
driving.gif Andy
J P Stein
Bill:
Thanks for the info, but (not to sound like a smart ass) this is old news to some of us.

Now smart ass mode:
Apparentely, we of the hinterlands (anything outside of the bay area) are unacceptable sources for any sort of information relating to this subject matter.
The "you're gonna die & take some innocent with ya" demagoguery was a bit much....but I'm sure there is more where that came from. You being a member of the inner circle biggrin.gif may convince others that they should reconsider their position.

If there was a good R35 straight side slick in the 8.5/9.0 inch range, I wouldn't use the effin' cantis......the reason would probably start another round of "you're fulla shit" so I'll keep my own council on this one.
J P Stein
Hay, Bill:
My 240Z buddy tells me that he talked to Goodyear about the
cantis on 8s and they gave him the go-a-head some time back....so they are consistent.

He's been running them on 8s for years......too damn quickly, I might add. biggrin.gif
As a matter of fact, he's running your ex cantis now......sorry, I couldn't find a P car for em' biggrin.gif In my search for traction I came across the 4ea 10 X 16s with a pair of slicks so the ones I got from you (a hell of a buy, btw) got passed along (for a hell of a buy) to him as his were toast. He killed me twice this season on em' so far....but still can whupp his little blond 17 year old grandaughter....wonder how long that'll last huh.gif
Trekkor
Sooooo...On to other tires. I've got 11 track days on my calender, not including GGR TT series.

I *must* order tires today or Monday if I want to have them ready for Friday.

I just can't decide which I want.

710's, Hoosier R's or Toyo's... or other?

My track days are not racing, so times aren't critical.
I'm looking for longevity and consistant grip over the life of the tire.

Number of heat cycles before garbage would be nice to know.

I need to keep this new set off the a/x track as that destroys tires and due to the track use, they aren't competitive either.

help.gif

Also with the Toyo's. I know for dry racing, they get 'em shaved for better performance. ( Spec Miata tire )
Since I need life of tire, can I run them unshaved for longer life or will I be disappointed due to the squirmy feel?

Thanks,

KT
DanT
Bill,
Are you still trying to pass off that chassis on some unsuspecting sole? biggrin.gif

This is an interesting discussion. I am surprised at the amount of peptic acid being churned up by this.
If you spoke to the goodyear folks, I would think that would be a pretty definitive answer.

Also the experience of folks like RKR, and other such should be sufficient to quell most fears or concerns.

I have been running TT/DE/AX for quite a number of years (16+) and have never personally witnessed any tires of any type coming off the bead of the rim.

I have run against cars on street tires, DOT Rs, Cantis and real live slicks.
It is something that just doesn't seem to ocurr very often.

wink.gif
DanT
Trekkor,

You aren't considering Kumho Victoracers?

I am enjoying the grip of mine....

Trekkor
I'll consider anything.
Tell me how long they last.

Remember, I won't a/x them.


KT
nine14cats
Trekkor,

Talk with Rich Walton about the Toyo's. The Toyo Cup cars are getting some pretty good longevity out of them. I also noticed that several of the cars in the VARA group in SoCal have switched from the Kumho's to the Toyo RA-1's based on similar lap times and longer wear.

I'm doing the same thing as far a tires...I just ordered my new set of R250's for AX and when the time comes I'll re-order my GY R600's since they are wearing great and are the spec series tire I need to run....

P.S. I'm keeping my gumball hoosiers for the Time Trial runs.... happy11.gif

Hey...I just heard I may make Buttonwillow TT.

Dan...you available to instruct Doris?

Bill P.
DanT
Bill,
I'll make some time for Doris during the weekend. Don't know when it will be but I will make sure to get in with her.

What happened, did you find that 4 diamond motel in Lost Hills.... wink.gif
Trekkor
I just talked to Rich. I had actually put in a message to him a few hours ago.

I'm going to try a set of Toyo's: shaved.
They are cheap, too. ( OK, cheaper )


KT

drew365
I'm sure all you CSOB know that Hoosier is discounting their 05 tires to clear them out. I ordered two sets Monday and they showed up today. Pretty quick and cheap. Relatively speaking in a world of $3.30 diesel!
SirAndy
QUOTE(Dan (Almaden Valley) @ May 19 2006, 04:36 PM) *

I have been running TT/DE/AX for quite a number of years (16+) and have never personally witnessed any tires of any type coming off the bead of the rim.
It is something that just doesn't seem to ocurr very often.

and that proves what? confused24.gif

it's not even that much about the tires, it's about the attitude behind it ...
i, for one, don't like the idea of running on the track with other pilots who think homedepot is the best place to shop for their racecar parts or think they have to cut every possible corner just because they can or try to squeeze the last penny out of every thing they put on their car or run tires on rims they were never designed for ...

apparently, nobody else has any problems with "stretching" safety until it fits their liking ...

honestly, this has been a real turn-off in regards to my desire to go club-racing with you guys ...
dry.gif Andy
Trekkor
Home Depot sponsors racing...If that helps. Jumpy.gif


KT
SirAndy
QUOTE(trekkor @ May 19 2006, 05:39 PM) *

Home Depot sponsors racing...If that helps. Jumpy.gif

thank you for proving my point! sad.gif i knew this would be the way you are looking at it.

i don't think there is anything funny about this ...
dry.gif Andy
Trekkor
Seriously, we're a safe group.

I won't do anything to put you or I in risk.
My car always passes tech.

In fact many of us run equipment not required for safety's sake. Even me. clap56.gif


Don't be mad biggrin.gif


KT
DanT
QUOTE(SirAndy @ May 19 2006, 05:30 PM) *

QUOTE(Dan (Almaden Valley) @ May 19 2006, 04:36 PM) *

I have been running TT/DE/AX for quite a number of years (16+) and have never personally witnessed any tires of any type coming off the bead of the rim.
It is something that just doesn't seem to ocurr very often.

and that proves what? confused24.gif

it's not even that much about the tires, it's about the attitude behind it ...
i, for one, don't like the idea of running on the track with other pilots who think homedepot is the best place to shop for their racecar parts or think they have to cut every possible corner just because they can or try to squeeze the last penny out of every thing they put on their car or run tires on rims they were never designed for ...

apparently, nobody else has any problems with "stretching" safety until it fits their liking ...

honestly, this has been a real turn-off in regards to my desire to go club-racing with you guys ...
dry.gif Andy


OK, I wasnt' going to go here but I can't help myself.

Andy, exactly how much track/AX exprience do you have.?
I am not quite sure where you are coming from with this. You rag on lots of folks about what they are doing but I don't hear you doing any of it for the most part.

If you haven't come out to one of the track events and witnessed personally what goes on, then how can you comment on it?

Thanks for the effort you put into this site but that does not entitle you to rip on any one that does not completely agree with your narrow point of view. I guess the information that Bill accumulated is not interesting or informative to you in any way?

Flame away



My Nomex is on.

There I said it.
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