bought this vortex plastic gizmo for my truck - I'll save 100Kms per tank (60miles?) on a 2000 Xterra and it do notice I have more jam at the pedal - but the guy discovered the fuel savings thing as a side line to finding more power for a carbed corvette dragster

this 10 cents worth of plastic (mine was $80 Canadian) sits in the air intake between the filter and top end of the motor - but the bloddy thing works - I'll get my money back in 3 fillups

I have PMO's on an early 911 and I am thinking about buying 6 of these things

anyway more of a comment than anything - with the price of gas these days...

josh

Although all applications are unique, all tested platforms showed either no improvement or a slight decrease in fuel economy.


But, if you fell it works for you then rock on.

There's a sucker born every day, and you were the one born on your day. The Cap'n

http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/02/Autos/tips...r_mpg/index.htm

http://www.automotivedigest.com/view_art.a...rticlesID=19063

https://secure.platypusvideo.com/articlenew...hp?articleID=32

Seeing as how any car I have ever owned needs to be at a certain air fuel mixture to work there is absolutely no way something like this could work.

If anything, clogging up the air way would cause me to run rich and end up burning more fuel then it should be.


Now if I really want to I can always lean the mixture in my daily at highway speeds. With a apexi AFC it's just a matter of leaning over and pressing a few buttons.

Now since the 914 runs 11-1 compression I don't think I will be messing with that at all. Don't need to go blowing it up.



If saving fuel is your thing get some skinny fuel efficient tires.

Or buy one of them 3cyl econo boxes.

I have this bridge...

I don't know if you have an FI or carb setup but, lessening the air flow through your carb will decrease the ventury effect on your carb thus using less fuel. You might be even runnig lean and thus running your engine hotter. If you have an FI system, then the fuel will keep spraying into your cylindwers thus running rich due to the lack of air because of the restriction from the foreign object. What is your temp guage reading? The so called vortex effect does not help atomize the fuel since a FI is designed to do that. In a carb, the more the fuel air mixture gets banged up in the intake and gets heated the better it burns. This vortex like disturbance is not a good thing for an internal combustion engine. Its not a turbine and could not increase airflow to the engine which in itself would not be a good thing since you would need to adjust for a richer fuel mixture if extra air is added to the mix and your cam would not function efficiently since the grind would not hold probably long enough for the denser gas as well as the extra exhaust it would generate. If you are runnig hoter, you are burning up your engine, if you are runnuig colder, you are not using your fuel efficiently. Remember the 180F rule.

How you say SCAM!!!!!

Dude, I have a couple more product suggestions. If you employ all of them, including the high-performance muffler bearings and piston return springs, the collective synergy could result in unheard-of horsepower and fuel economy!!

tornado

SpiralMax Turbo Exhaust Tube

Wide variety of performance upgrades

E-ram.....

Josh, you say it works. It seems as if the "tornado" unit has worked enough to continue to sell.

I think you need to do some serious comparisons.

Throw your car on the dyno. and run a baseline, then do a run with the thing in.

Next, you need to run one tank of gas with the thing in, and one tank of gas with the thing out. and post milage used.

Andrew

If you want to save fuel, thread out the acc. pedal stop bolt.

well said but you can't lump all this stuff as a scam - is it possible these engineers missed something? Maybe I associate with the wrong engineeers but I would'nt let most of them go to the 7-11 to get my corn dogs

I don't belive in ghosts, santa and that OJ did'nt do it - but the numbers don't lie, my gauges and wallet have no sense of humor.

I agree with the different application senario - my 2000 Xterra is running off the same pathfinder technology (bulletproof as it may be) but basically 20 year old technology. I don't think a dude who bought one for his prius will has the same savings.

its got to have something to do with running leaner - and lean is fast - too lean can of course be VERY bad

as for the obstruction thing - decreasing airflow - I think this thing is making the engine gulp more air by volume, like how a water (same laminar flow theory as air) goes down the toilet in in vortex much quicker. (virtually a forced air intake?)

tell you what - if anyone has access to a dyno, a carbed motor, (or FI) and is a skeptic I will contact the fuel genie people. I'll tell them to put thier money where thier lips are and pony up 4 or 6 gizmo's to see the results

I'll need the inside diameter of the air intake hose or the inside diameter of the carb stacks

game on?

"Josh, you say it works. It seems as if the "tornado" unit has worked enough to continue to sell."

WHAT? All that has worked well enough is the advertising! Given enough hype, there are a LOT of people who will buy ANYTHING. Remember the magnet that wraps around the fuel line? I see them flying out the door at HF (right next door) everytime fuel prices go up. One of their best selling items. IIRC, magnets work on ferrous metals. You know, like iron? How much iron is present in gasoline? All that magnet does is change silver from the sucker's pocket into silver in HF's cash drawer. Works well in that context ............. The Cap'n

Motorpants.
I have a sbc in my 914,
a bbc in an el camino
2 944 turbo's, one stock, one not
and a 01 galant.


Im game.

Butt-dyno's are always inaccurate. This can make mileage tests inaccuate as well. Dyno suggestion is the best one.

These 'vortex' objects work because of ADVERTISING! Period. Gullability and marketing. If these objects really work then they would be used by OEM's already. Seriously, let's use some uncommon sense (it's uncommon because common is an endangered species in human-kind nowadays). Tie a string to a fan housing and turn on the fan. Does it spiral? NO. Same applies to these spiral-max-nados pieces of crap. Even if it did cause a "tornado" effect, how is that going to continue when it reaches the plenum and has to be divided into 4 cylinders? 6 cylinders? 8 cylinders? If such a device actually worked then the geo-physics labs would have these simple devices to further their studies instead of specially equipped labs that cost an arm and a leg and then some...

Sell enough of something (play the odds) and you will get some who find the device does work. Further examination would quite likely lead to defects that the device band-aides (covers up). You could get the same effect by putting a Radio Shack resister in the wiring to fool the ECU.

Automobile companies spend billions on R&D. If there was a 10 cent piece of plastic that could suddenly increase mileage and/or increase performance, they would be all over it.

20 years ago there was a device that had 'data' plastered all over it showing the
tons of trials where whole fleets got 20-40% better mileage with it.

Of course the data looked real, except that it wasn't done scientifically.
Specifically, they were not a double-blind tests. So, the effect they measured
was not the device at all, but instead all the drivers' paying attention to their
driving habits that contribute to better fuel mileage.

I'm not sure what they look like or where they are installed, but the only effect I can think they may have is to introduce addition turluence into the airstream. On engines where the fuel air atomization is poor, this could make it optimum. You can bet that if this technology was used on race cars of all sorts, then it would be a proven technology. If not, then it is mostly bunk.

The Mad Physicist

Volumetrically speaking, the downward travel of the cylinders will create a vaccum which will demand an air fuel mixture to replace the void it created. The easier or the less resistance the intake has, the better the engine breaths thus we put bigger valves on heads for example. What you want is a quick in and out with the fuel and exhaust in such a way to give you the best power band your engine can opperate on. One of the best ways to suck fuel into the combustion chamber is to have the exhaust extract the gases from the tail pipe like a header system with an extractor. An extractor is like a funnel shapped pipe which spins the exhaust gases inside itself just like the water jug idead you mentioned. Just like a water jug, its on the exiting vortex like force of the water that the air gets sucked in. As for fuel economy, less air=less fule=less ass unless ya wanna put some laughing gas into the mixture.

Yes, I can lump all of this stuff into one pile and call it a scam. In fact I just did.

People who tout the benefits of these BS products are either mistaken about the improvement or are intentionally trying to decieve others to make a buck. I don't know which category you fit into.

The reason people buy the tornado is because they are foolish and uninformed. The reason they don't bitch too much about it is because it wasn't that much money and their pride doesn't allow them to admit how stupid they were for buying it in the first place.

There has always beeen a scam going on and people have always bought into it.
Slick 50 was the big deal in the 80's, everyone I talked to about it was convinced it improved mileage, HP, and engine life. They were wrong on all counts.
Then split-fire spak plugs. Again, no benefit at all despite the testimonials.
Magnets on the fuel lines? Don't even go there.
People buy crap because they want to believe it works even if it doesn't. Sometimes they can even convince themselves, but they can't convince me.

send inside diameters of either the intake hose or carb stacks and I'll call these jokers - I'll get'm

couple things...

-I have nothing to do with company in any way

-this thing does'nt spin - its a stationary twisted shape

-throttle attitude by the driver is key point! - PERHAPS subconciously maybe I might have been a little easy on the go pedal - next fill up I am going to over compensate to remove this factor - good point and something I thought about

-what are some of you guys scared of? Breakthroughs happen all the time, maybe the dude who thought of this has 50 years in a F1 R&D lab - probably not but the guys probably not retard either.

If I consistantly shaved a 10th off a lap time because I wore I green sock and one blue - I would search for a reason but in the mean time I would continue to wear the stupid socks

PM me an address to fedex a gizmo - if these fuel genie bitches will not pony up I'll send one (out of pocket) for an FI car - if somone wants to dyno it

josh

It doesn't have to move to create turbulence since the air itself is already moving. Any obstruction in the flow path will introduce turbulence. The obstruction does not have to reduce flow itself, but will add some resistance at least. Various methods of introducing turbulence are used in high performance heat exchangers to improve the coefficent of heat transfer.

To say that this would screw up the air fuel mixture is incorrect. The fuel is metered according to the volume or mass of the air flow along with other methods with either carbs or FI. Better fuel economy would come from a more efficient burn and greater power at lower RPM.

I'm not saying that this device delivers on it's promise, I'm only trying to put a bit of science into this thread. I'm a hype buster along with everyone else.