Hi,

Does anyone know how rare a factory 1970 914-6 GT is? My step dad recently came arcoss one and is currently putting it all together (parts had been removed). So if anybody knows much about them or even better, how much they go for at an auction, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks

Really really rare if it is in fact an authentic GT.

Here's Armando Serrano's site with more information and pictures than one can possibly go through

A geniune GT is rare, and worth big money (six figures). However, there are a LOT of replicas, as they're not particularly difficult to make. A really nicely done replica made from a real 914-6 could fetch more than $20K, perhaps a good bit more. A replica made from a 914-4 (look at the VIN, a real 914-6 will start with 914, a conversion from a 4 will start with 47) will fetch less, perhaps $15K if nicely done, perhaps less.

Look where he is posting from.

The number one dealership in the early 70's for converting the 9146's to GT's and M471's was located in Kansas. Art Bunker?? I think was the name of the dealership.

It wouldnt surprise me at all if he has a dealer converted car.

Show us pics.


B

The Kremer car was on the blocks for $145k almost 8 years ago. The market for that type of stuff was the softest then as I've seen it. I'd estimate $30k north of that now... depends on what it is.

Since this is your first post, everyone was so stirred up with a mention of a 914-6 GT, that they forgot to welcome you! So there it is! Welcome to the world headquarters of 914 info.
Just give us the VIN number and watch the reaction. Also, send for a Certificate of Authenticity which will be helpful for the history of the car. (Pictures when you can)

Don

Lots of great info here. And some extremely knowledgeable people.

Welcome. I hope it's real...

PICS PICS PICS!!!!!!

A real 914/6-GT isn't worth that much. Maybe $1500 or so. It's probably not worth the time to restore it. Lucky for you, I'm looking for a project car and I would be willing to pay $1200 or so.

Parts donor at best.....

prices vary widely, cars with actual porsche racing history tend to fetch quite a few bucks ...

here's a list of known factory GT VIN numbers, compare and cross your fingers ...

914 043 0019
914 043 0705
914 043 0709
914 043 0983
914 043 1640
914 043 1732
914 043 2541
914 043 2542
914 043 2543
914 143 0139
914 143 0140
914 143 0141

anything other than that was dealer/customer build and will not be quite as rare and/or expensive.

oh, and


Andy

Kinda like checking lottery numbers. Good luck and

Hello and welcome

Did your step dad find it in Nevada?

little mistake, huh

there are more GTs built by the factory, but your list just shows the cars used/raced by the factory ...

Gustl

sorta ... the factory build some for customers, some were build by dealers and some were build by customers (using the m471 kit i presume) ...

point was, a car with know racing history will fetch far more money ...
Andy

Yes, known racing history is the biggest factor. That is why I'm doing my best to research my friends car. Records that are searchable on the net are scarce. Of course the other cars noted in the material get added to the database as well. There are a lot of cars out there that we don't know the whereabouts of. As Brad says, Art Bunker was well known to have fielded a team back in the day. I don't know if any are accounted for yet. Overland Park is just a few miles from Kansas City, so it seems to be a good prospect. Anyone else from the area?

I saw an add on the Max Moritz car (the car in my avatar) for $135K a few years back....

And that was a dealer preped car...that´s not cheap...

Saw this one on www.mroks.com:

Porsche 914/6 Group-4, 1970.

This Porsche 914/6 Group-4 car was fitted with a type 901/25 engine
in March 1970 by the Swedish importer.
VW-Sweden entered the car in the 1970 Swedish National Championship.
It was then driven by Leif Hansen who finished 2nd in class.
Except for the national Swedish races the car was also entered in some
international races run in Sweden.

In 1970 this car was the Speed Record Holder in the Röforsbacken Hill
Climb, driven as a private entry by well known Björn Waldegärd.
The car continued racing in Sweden in the hands of various local drivers
until 1999.

In 2000 the car went to a new owner in Southern Europe who had the car
prepared again to top-level in today’s historic racing.
All work and preparation to this car have been done to the highest level.
The car is a very fast, reliable and competitive car.
It has FIA papers and is road-registered within the EEC.

914.0.43.0071

Gustl

We yhave paperwork from the factory saying its genuine straight off the production line and modified at the factory(i think). ill look through all of our pics. we have a ton, so it will take me a while to find the good and right ones. I ll post some pics when i find them!

Excellent news, please keep us informed.

Ahh... Found the letters!Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment

Wow! Looks like a good find!

This guy has a list of what I assume are all the 914-6's serial numbers. No pictures though...

http://www.pca.org/914/9146SerialNumbers2.htm

Did your step-dad buy his car from any of these folks?
http://www.pca.org/914/SIGsiteRegisters6.html

wow, love the misspellings on the PCNA document.... and it is from america...It wouldn't be so bad if it was from germany, but you would think that americans could write english....

I'm not seeing anything in those docs that suggest the car is anything but a factory 914-6. Maybe someone could decode the engine number to shed further light on the subject.

From the letter, it may be that the flares were either factory or dealer installed. It does'nt actually say so, I agree, but just that would add significant value, even if more is needed to reach stratospheric figures.

An original /6 is nothing to sneeze at, to begin with. The engine serial number may tell us more, but I don't have the necessary data at hand.

Michel

I'm not too sure where he got it. I just discovered he has had it for quite a while, i just never knew about it. And thanks for all the welcomes, last forum group i joined pretty much told me go **** myself. But thanks for all the info. My step dad knows alot more than me, i was just doin some research for myself. ya know, see what i could find out.

But currently, the 914 is at my uncles bodyshop being resprayed. My step dad dropped a wrench on the door panel! I almost thought he was going to throw up. It was really bad, it left a huge chip in the paint.

So lately he's been working on our new race car. He spent about a year and a half working on his other one only to have a sway bar get bent getting some air at Heartland Park in Topeka, Kansas. Put him straight into the wall.

so.... just wastin time writing.

flares are nice..
but doesn't make it a full GT
the option for flares and racing parts was M471
funny that the documentation doesn't show your car to have that option.


I agree.. doesn't mean its not an awesome car, but might mean its a 30K car instead of a 130K car.

brant

The M471 option was basically just the flares and related parts, and does not designate a GT. So all this means is that the car was originally delivered as a regular street 914/6. But then, a lot of racing 914/6 GT's also started the same way. So this could be a dealer conversion or a home conversion either of which means it could still be classified as a true GT. To be classified as a GT it would have had to have been raced in an appropriate class back in the early 1970's. A considerable number were raced back then. What will be most telling is the degree of conversion and the number of original GT parts that were used. Actual race history may be able to be determined. The older the conversion, the degree of conversion, and the extent of the racing history will dictate the value of the car.

This car is not on my list. I see it listed by Larry Lee, which means he has some record of the car. It would certainly be useful to find out what Larry has on the car.

The DOT date for the car should be 03/70, this is the date of assembly.

ok, ill check and see what Mr. Lee has to say. Thanks!

I agree with this.
its worth further investigation.
my friends car came with not only the steel flares, but the correct cooler, the original hoods, and the correct thermostat.. a fairly complete package.

see what else your father in law's car has to go with the flares
motor ID is a big plus too.

brant

I frequent that track.

What car got damaged? When was it? Was it at a club race, or at a D.E.?

I look forward to seeing it out there. Typically at D.E. events, ours is the only 914 there. For club races, usually a bunch from Colorado show up.

There is a DE at Heartland Park this weekend (June 2,3,4). The car and my dad will be there (I don't know if I'll be there or not as I have a new son, am trying to get over my surgury from last Friday, and trying to complete my 914/6 conversion).

It was a white 914. it was about a year and a half ago, so it was before they repaved it. he was going down the main straight and he got air on the part where the dragstrip runs into the road course part, or at least thats what i think he said.

I believe he was finishing up getting his liscense to drive in the PCA, but im not too sure. I wasnt there.

His current car isnt done yet. probably wont be until Fall or early winter. Its going to be an open cockpit car, probably orange and be number 89. He's thinking about racing in a vintage 914 class i believe in the SCCA.

I would actaully like to come to the track this weekend with my dad, but im shooting a movie with my friends, and i cant miss this one. sorry.

And Congrats on the new baby!

Im still looking and resizing some pics to post. It took me a while but i realized why i couldnt post the pics as is. Theyre way too huge. but ill get em, and ill even post some pics of the race cars.

There was a guy in Junction City, Kansas who claimed to have a disassembled 914/6 GT... but he was a strange bird. Didn't return phone calls and flaked out a couple of times I asked to come take pictures. I got the impression he was worried someone might try to steal it... or maybe the story was a total fabrication. Eventually, I gave up.

Might be the same car... but I never did lay eyes on it.

Welcome... and congrats on the score!

-Rusty

I saw in an Excellence article there were 50 914-6 GTs. Is this the case? Did people in Europe get these cars and not race them?

my opinion.
part of the problem with this discussion/thread.. is "what constitutes a GT?"

there were I believe 200 fender kits produced.
they had to produce a certain number in order to legalized the option for their racing cars.

so does that mean 200 GT's existed
in my opinion no.
I don't think a fender kit constitues a real GT
a fender kit, makes it a cool 914-6 with fender flares, but doesn't really make it faster.

so it all boils down to what really is a GT and what is not really a GT.
most people agree that a real GT has race history, a hot motor, and the fender kit with associated bits and pieces.

I think the 16 or so GT's are pretty universally agreed upon.
but the remaining 200 fender kit cars are more debateable.

brant

I believe the factory acknowledged 41 cars in a past issue of Pano. This included some dealer built vehicles... not sure though. I'd have to dig up the issue and scan the list. But, I'm way too lazy to do that

(there's one here in UT BTW)

I always thought it was GT kits that were produced. These included all the GT parts. All the parts were sometimes not put on the dealer preped cars. A member here posted a few years ago about finding some.....

If we are talking about "real" GT's wouldn't you also onclude the cable operated headlights and fixed roof in there or were those only for the FACTORY built GT's? If only the factory GT's had those parts then maybe we should have a GT Junior class Seriously though we have factory built Gt's...dealership built GT's .....and GT clones built aftermarket using factory parts correct? (not including modern day DIY GT's) Also curious about whether the dealership built cars were ever actually logged in as such or were they just built and sold as a "stock" 6 or even 4 for that matter Inquiring minds want to know........

All of the parts may have been available seperately from the factory.
and perhaps they agreed to produce 200 of each part.

but Very few of the flared fender (even factory or dealer installed) cars have all of the parts. Most don't have the oil cooler or correct thermostat.

some have flares without the correct balsa wood reinforced hoods.

not many at all have all of the parts.
I think fender flares are by far the most common of the parts to be actually found.

brant

I'm betting it is a M471 car that is being raced. The 916's and M471's were the only 6's I know of that shipped with "leatherette" interiors.

Andy,

you know what I'm thinking.. right.. a certain silver M471 is still sitting.. maybe I'll have the funds again one day...LOL


B

don't get me started on that car ...

btw. i have a solution for your /6 problem ...
call me Andy

According to Glen Stazak their were 400 GT kits produced for dealers

As I recall, that was his first DE with the car. (and the first time with any of the Kansas City clubs)

We warned him numerous times to be careful of Alpha Zero, but he ended up eating concrete instead.

It was a freshly done car.

I especially liked the BONDO in all the weld joints. The BONDO/Welds looked pretty until after the wreck when it became obvious that the welds were crap.

The guy seemed nice enough.

I doubt very much if another M471 or GT surfaces in this area that none of us know about. The last real M471 that we knew about here in KC was traded for a 308 and some cash several years ago. I believe that car is up north now.

There were factory produced cars in a variety of configurations. There were dealer produced cars in a wide variety of configurations. There were home built cars as well. In the truest sense, IMHO, a GT is a car that was built and run in the proper classification back in the early 1970's. There are lots of clones being made, and many run in competitions today. Due to the many classifications that the cars were run in you see a lot of variation. For example, IMSA mandated a fuel cell, so these cars did not get the 100 liter tank modifications. Many had no need for headlights of any sort. Some would run in open (spyder) configuration, others in closed form. Generally they would have started with a 2.0 engine with about 200hp. Later they moved up to the 2.5 liter GTU limit. Most would have some form of oil cooling, but with fuel cells crowding the front trunk, the 'usual' GT cooler was rare in the USA and Canada.

Don't forget that these cars were workhorse race cars. Banged up and readied for the next race. Log books were not mandatory or well annotated when used. As the rules changed, so did the cars. When they were no longer competative, they were dumped in favor of the the next hot ride. This was true even of the 917.

don't talk about this special car - this one is top secret

Gustl

this is an excerpt of the famous GT-list from the Porsche factory,
dated 06/30/71