Now the question is what's the recommended set-up to have the most parts availbility/ ease of install.

Early block? late block? Vortec heads? Standard heads?

Give me the low down so I can get a motor. Once I get the motor there will be no stopping me

Well except all the other parts for the conversion

Don't hold your breath on this one since I just dumped a grand into the front end rebuild but I'll get it started!

350 SB is the easy and quick way to go. Crate motor would be good. Check the Renegade site for the kit costs. Good luck, they are fun, I have had 5 of them. Wish I still had each one.
CCLINICOULDHAVEAV8

The GM Goodwrench engine seems to be a pretty popular choice. Back when I built my Corvette, you could get a Mexican-built 4-bolt engine with standard (old design) iron heads for about $1200 brand new.

In a 914, I'd probably go with aluminum heads to save weight... if you can get your hands on an L89 350 ('86-'91 Corvette), you get aluminum heads and Tuned Port Injection. Not the greatest injection out of the box as it doesn't flow enough air to feed a built 350, but plenty of power for a light car. LT1 ('92-96 Corvette) engines are different as they use reverse flow cooling heads (also aluminum), and I believe the injection is set up for a higher RPM range. Some LT1 parts won't interchange with older engines, so do your homework.

I went with an engine built by a local builder, and the engine came with pocket ported iron Vortec heads. The Vortec heads are pretty sweet, but you won't find as many intake manifolds that will work with Vortec as you will with the older heads.

And then there is the '97-'05 LS1 engine, which is all aluminum (Vettes only)... and I'm sure that a lot of Vettes have been wrecked since '97...

Just some ideas... hope this helps.

85-91 corvette L98 not L89

Doh! You're right.

aluminum heads are approximately 25lbs lighter, per head, than cast iron. $2000 for alum heads devided by 50lbs = $40 per lb in weight savings. If you've got the cash go for it. =-) I'm a CSOB. LOL

the vortec's are notorious for cracking as they are mostly mfg'd in mexico. i've got a cracked set you can see.... higher flow but you've got to find a set with no cracks. good luck.

cast heads are found on craigslist and thru word of mouth for $100 per set rebuildable. i've got a machinist near by who's about worthless and I'll travel way out of my way to have the work done on time, on price.

love to see your ride when she's done.
Roger

i thought the camaro, firebird, GTO ls1s were aluminum also...

hmm...

"As the fourth-generation of Chevys ponycar soldiered on it received numerous upgrades, the most notable being the retirement of the LT1 V8 in favour of the fantastic all-aluminum LS1 V8 in 1998,..." ~AOL Autos

My memory ain't what it used to... what were we talking about again?

First yes the LS1 in the camaro/ firebird IS aluminum.


Second were talking about the best Chev to use for a conversion

Now the older SB or the newer SB?

After talking with a few chev heads the vote from them would be the LT1 or newer.

Is there any differences in regards to using them for a conversion.

Different balancers? different mounts? Engine lid interferences with available manifolds etc...

I want to do this in expensively but not cheap so I want to start with a junkyard V8 to get the conversion done then I will remove the motor during the winter and rebuild.

cost wise:

engine out of a low milage wreck (see above choices)

GM crate engine http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/perfpartsjsp/p...ion=ce&cat=9274

Build a 302 (283 crank 327 bore)

You want a fast reving, high hp, low torque engine. The torque is what is suppost to kill the trans. Along with shock loading them.

Bearing in mind I know next to nothing about V8s, I'd think a short-stroke engine that revs would be the best bet, since you're fairly limited on gearing options. Put a high-revs cam in it, and tune it to be happy cruising at 3000-4000rpm.

To keep the gearbox alive, I'd also think going with the smallest possible engine would also help. Even something under 5.0L (i.e., 300cu.in) would still be way more than enough, unless you're building a drag car.

Guys let's stay on focus.

I'm not concerned with the engine peformance parameters at this point I'm concerned with fitment. I know the problem with the gearing of the 901 and the conflict between the engine torque and the 901's more fragile parts.

So again which SBC old... New... LT1... LS1 will be the best in terms of fitment and conversion parts availability.

Like is there a problem with the LT1 manifolds being to tall or the vavle covers on the early sb's having more clearance with the fire wall?

Basically which motor will fit in the engine bay with the least issues.

there's been many a conversation about putting a high winding OHC V6 from Honda, Acura, or... lightweight high winding HP is what it's all about unless you upgrade the transaxle.

i've go the flipped H gear in my 901 so highway cruising is very respectable.

an all aluminum V8 would be just SICK.... LOL Go for it... I'll cheer you on.

oh,
the LT1's and newer engines all fit with some mild persuading.

the intakes on all V8's need to be low rise unless your not afraid to do some cutting or custom work.

kennedy makes conversion adaptors for both old and new SBC's.

valve covers are the least of your worries and new and old will be fine unless yo go crazy with something tall and aftermarket.

LT1 intake manifolds are OK but you mayhave to trim underneath the bonnet like I did.... =-) and I'm using a higher rise street dominator intake with a edelbrock 750 dbl pumper and a real short air cleaner. old block.
motor mounts are the same i think.

i believe both motors will fit about the same.

hope that helps.

As usual good advise from our friend from the GWN.
Best advise so far.
This is the combo that Penske raced in the Z-28's.
I still run one in my beater GMC.
300hp, 188 tq, 17 mpg @ 2600rpm.
Aluminum heads will save about 110 lbs.

JT

fitment issues are both shown here.

the left valve cover hits the firewall and the dizzy will hit the rear trunk and needs to be cut out and re-engineered.

Thanks!!! Dr. Roger That's what I was looking for.

I guess it's pick your battle each style having slightly different fitment issues.

I have a 283 2barrel long block if you want it ((free)) it came out of a 1965 impala - I got it on ebay and picked it up in southern VA. Pick up only.

Jim

--

I have an LS6 in my 74 914. The only thing available for the conversion is a Kennedy adapter plate, clutch kit & flywheel to marry a Porsche trans to it. Beware of all the custom fabrication involved when choosing this route...also, know that a 901 will never live...even with a stock 345-350HP LS1. You will spend even more money on a flipped 930 box...(forget the 915...I've done it all before and they blow up almost the same as a 901...and cost over $4,500). That said, you can have alot of fun with a modern fuel injected all aluminum computer controlled LS1/LS6 motor...it just costs alot and requires a shit ton of work. Also, when using an LS series motor, you will have to cut the firewall to allow enough room for the engine to fit...and you will have to turn the intake manifold 180 dgrees backwards (not a big deal...it's engineered to do this).

Regards,

Bill

are you going with a conversion kit or going to piece it together yourself??

They all fit basicly the same....notch for dist, dimple firewall for left valve cover, the only difference is the height of the intake and that is a matter of choice...


Nice offer Jim, wish I was closer

hey jaiden, you've got to check out wbergtho's V8 914 if you haven't already..... he's got all the bases covered with the all aluminum engine and rad trans solution. clean final product. two thumbs up in my book.

You can buy brand new, fully assembled Aluminum heads for $900 a pair......pick a brand, Eldebrock, Trick Flow plus others...

"most parts availbility/ ease of install" = Gen I SBC
For lower cost use iron Vortec heads. Better flow makes up for the weight over Alu. Get a long block from a decent rebuilder. Otherwise get a (short)block from a rebuilder and buy Alu heads. That's what I'm doing.

Why not use the new 4.6 ford motors? No distributor and they are smaller engines. Plenty of them too. You could carb it or leave the FI and put the ECU in the trunk.

yet another opinion...

do you want to run fuel inj or carburetor? If f.i., then get the late model LS series engine complete with f.i./harness/computer and put that in. The late model heads can be ported to flow 300cfm+ (MORE than plenty for over 500HP), and there are a lot of parts available and more becoming available for those, so you have performance options with that setup.

If carbureted, then there aren't much for manifold options on the late stuff. In that case, a Gen 1 is the better choice as there are about a million intake manifold options for that, let alone every bolt-on known to man. Also, don't use Vortec heads or any factory GM head for that matter. Get a set of AFR CNC ported heads that flow 286cfm off-the-shelf, work with a ton of manifolds, and are around $900 to $1100/pr depending on parts used in assembly (quality of valves/springs/retainers). Absolute best bang for the buck heads. Use a later hyd roller cam block and a nice streetable hyd roller cam.

Or, if not very savvy at all with engines, buy a crate Gen1 carbureted setup and bolt it in. About as easy as it can get.

On topic = installation won't be much easier either way you go - they both need some fitting. I think you need to focus more on what you want to do with the engine once it is in and get the best choice for the future mods you wish to make.

Elaborating = trust me, you'll put in 300HP and that is just crazy-insane. Then you drive it for awhile - you know 300HP isn't that much... I could go to 400HP. Whoa now that would be crazy-insane! Then you drive it for awhile, you know, 400HP isn't that much and that trans was on it's last leg anyway. How about 450HP and conversion to a 915 trans. Whoa, now that would be crazy-insane....

next thing you know you have 525HP and a 930 trans and $50K in a car worth $10K. Knowing desire for 600HP is probably only a few track days away

Summit has the SBC 64cc chambered aluminum heads (EDL-60899 ) with 2.02" intake SS valves/retainers and studs installed for only
$500 a piece. no rockers/nuts.

thats a great price.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.a...15&autoview=sku

of course you checked out the new "hot rod" magazine and saw the newest SBFord in the cover Mustang. pretty sick IMHO.

high winding and small..... <thinking> =-)

I dunno - 370+ hp and a 915 in a 914 has felt pretty crazy-insane to me for the past 6 months! At least for a street car. When those secondaries crack open at full throttle, things happen pretty quick on the street - more motorcyclelike than carlike. To be honest, I've not used full throttle very much because there just isn't enough room to do it on public roads for more than a couple of seconds.

Whoa! You guy have some really high ambitions!!!

I'm just starting my plans for the rear end since I just finished up Phase 1 on the front (refresh the stock)

Here's the overall plan

Since the motor would need to be gone through anyway why not go one step further. Set up the car for the basic V8 conversion and get it to run strong and reliable. I want to be able to get in and go.
After the motor is in running and functional I would move on to the rear suspension freshening and then tighten up a bunch of loose ends.

Once it's functional with the drivetrain, guages and rear suspension stable I'll pull it all back apart and do all the final fit and finish. Rebuild the motor to approx 350hp/ 300tq, replace the CV's and see what I can do about keeping the 901 together.

I'm going to try and take my time and find some deals on the hard parts (front and rear eng/tranny mounts, engine adapter plate) and then get the rest new. I'm pretty good with Thermodynamics (aced it in College) so I'm going to do the cooling system my self beyond the belt driven waterpump.


So wish me luck!!!

Thanks for the offer of the motor but I'm looking for a short block that will fire up quick so I can deal with the other conversion issues as soon as possible and deal with the motor later.

Donations appreciated!! ha!!

How about a lexus or toyota V8? I would imagine they would be all aluminum, and perhaps more reliable and efficient in the long haul.

That is going to be small cubes to get a range like that. A rebuilt 350 with hyd cam will go 300HP/350lb-ft, not the other way around. Sounds like a 283 or 302 is a perfect starting place for you! Could take a 3" stroke crank, later model Gen1 hyd roller block and have 306 cubes (assuming 4.030" bore), a nice hyd roller cam, the AFR heads and have something in the 350HP/300-320 torque range that would last forever, fire up every time, on and on.

I admit it is hard to stretch 525HP out on the street - I can roll down El Segundo Blvd in 1st gear at 40mph without the car even breathing hard - but it sho' is fun getting to 40mph Mine is too obnoxious for the street at this point and was really only a motorcycle cop away from a noise/modified exhaust ticket, if not more. I mostly track mine admittedly.

But I remember test driving my Lightning and thinking "holy crap, a truck that accelerates this fast!" and now I find myself thinking if I cut a hole in the floorboard, maybe I could Flintstone a little more acceleration. Then I get in my fiancee's Focus and damn near get out and push it to get on the freeway, which is a nice reminder that 450 lb-ft is enough for the truck. But I don't "notice" the power like I did when I first bought it - and that is what I meant. I want more... and then more...

I wouldn't half-ass it in the engine department.. you'll want more, and it'll cost a heckuva lot more down the line, because you'll have to redo everything. IMHO I'd do it right and go at LEAST LT1 if not LS1.

...and LT1s aren't that expensive anymore...

Get a 12 step program you addict!!!

You need to get in touch with Skline. He's been working on a smc conversion now for years and years and years...
Cheers, Elliot

not that I have ever tried heroin, but I suspect even that would be easier to kick than an addiction to acceleration I went to Disneyland a couple weeks ago (had free passes - gotta use 'em!) and ended up riding Space Mountain 3 times because it was the only fast ride - and waited to be in the front seat every time. I can't even enjoy Disneyland anymore

IMHO a 302 would be the optimum engine...

but a 327 would be nice too... The 302 will give you more top end hp, and more revs... A high winding high hp 914 is ALWAYS fun.... Trust me.. You dont need any more tq than a 302 will make...

Such a question!
Hard to answer, but for no major $ or engineering/fab and flexibility to expand later, if I could do it over again, I would have used a 4" bore block instead of my 283. Cost the same to rebuild, but has much more availability of pistons and heads (w/2.02" intake). To up my C/R (w/o decking the block) and valve size I had to buy 55cc steel heads (which are 601 w/1.84" int. and nice, but prone to cracking). It was cheaper than rebuilding my "power pack" heads, which had 1.74" valves. Not that I could afford aluminum at the time, but try looking in Summit or Jegs for aluminum heads w/1.84 or 1.94" valves Or domed 3.875" pistons . Some run big valves in the small bores (301's) but that's a different arguement.
Either way, you're gonna want more power. I want more low-end torque. Then I'm taking chances with the 901.
283@300ft-lbs or 350@350ft-lbs? At this point, I'd use the 350.
I have no experience with the LT or LS series, so please pardon my ignorance, but the early sbc w/renegade kit sure was simple.
Ed

I've just basically gone through what you are doing now. After asking a bunch of questions and doing a lot of research, I settled on what Bruce (GWN7) mentioned - a 327 turned into a 302. All the SBC's fit about the same, so it was more a choice of what SBC would be the best choice for me. I went with a quick reving, low torque motor to better match the characteristics of the tranny. To counteract the dizzy fitment problem, I'm looking into various electronic ignitions (as well as EFI), but I haven't settled on anything yet.

I went with the SBC because of all the experience and resources associated with doing Chevy conversions (plus I already owned some the conversion parts), but if I was starting from scratch I would definitely look harder at some the other choices - Suby, Ford, etc.

Ok, I will throw my two cents in here for what it is worth. I strongly suggest the 327 as it is probably the best most reliable engine for the 914. It's a short stroke with a 4" bore that will do exactly what you want it to do. Parts are a dime a dozen and available anywhere. Easily will put out 350HP with minor mods and keep the torque in the upper end where it wont kill your trans.

Joe Buckle is building one for his V8 car. I have a 283 bored 30 over with a RSHII cam installed. It revs very quick and seems to be very powerful when I drive it. Read that as the car flat gets it when you push on the pedal. Isnt that what we all want?

Ok then. I think I will focus on trying to locate a 4" bore block, Make it a rev'r and slap it in.

Anyone know a good place on the east coast to find a decent short block?
In my area the junk yards are not the best. Although Harry's you pull it might be a place to get a cheap tear out but probably not in the older vintage.

Thanks for all the input guys!


Oh and I think that Heroin probably is less addictive then acceleration.

Jim's offer of the 283 is your start. Just bore it to 4" and your at a 302 cu in or find a 1969 or later SBC, the main journal size of the small block was increased in 69

Here's some info I found:

You can make your own 302 small block Chevy. It's really quite simple. You will need to start with a block that has a 4.00" bore.

This can be a 327 that hasn't been bored (very rare, if any exist at all) or a 350 block. Next, you will need a crankshaft with the appropriate main journal size. For the 327 block, you will need a 283 crankshaft. The 283 has a 3.00" stroke. Combined with the 4.00" bore, you will get 302 cubic inches. Most (if not all) of the Chevy small blocks from the fifties and most of the sixties had the same crank main journal diameters.

If you are using a later (1969-on) 350 block, then you will need a 302 crankshaft with the larger main journal size to fit the later block. This crankshaft will also have a 3.00" stroke. In the sixties and seventies, most hot rodders used the 327 pistons and the 283 rods. However, the aftermarket has much superior components now. All you have to do is choose your compression ratio. The aftermarket piston and rod manufacturers make all the really good stuff. Use good tri-metal bearings and a hi-po oil pump and pan.

The prefered cylinder heads for a 302 are units that have a 2.02" intake valve. Again, a good set of aftermarket heads will be better than a set of stock heads. But you can use a hi-po 350 head as well.

I'd top this off with an aftermarket cam that duplicates the old Corvette "30-30" cam specs, and an aluminum dual plane manifold with a 600 cfm carburetor. If the cam you choose is hot enough, you can go larger on the carb.

Here is a formula you can use to determine the cubic inch displacement of any engine. It's helpful because you may start out with a block that has either already been bored, or needs to be bored.

Displacement = pi / 4 x bore(squared) x stroke x number of cylinders

pi = 3.1415927

pi /4 = .07853982

What makes the 302 so good is the big bore, short stroke design. One of these motors can RPM up 7500 rpm if you use the correct oiling system, steel crankshaft and bearings. They really sing!

Only trouble with that 302 config. is piston cost. I've read in the archives (search) of using L99 rods w/350 pistons, or 5.85" rod (not sure from what) w/327 pistons.
Also, I had a brain fart about the 301. If you have the right block you can punch a 283 out to 4". I meant my point to be that there are differing opinions on using big valves (2.02) w/sub-4" bores.
A 327 ia an awesome option, esp. if you got a good deal on it you maybe could use it right out of the box, or junkyard. Sm. journal from '62-'67, lg in '68,'69. Maybe more probable it would be set up for performance instead of for a station wagon?
Ed

hi all, can anybody give me the dimensions of the engine bay ?

Just keep an eye out for good used engines on Ebay. Try to find them with aluminum head. I bought this motor on ebay for $1450+shipping. I'm going to squeeze this in a '70 911 with a 930 tranny. This will be my first time every working on a chevy V8 motor.

Chevy 350 Small block. (1976 block)
4-bolt mains
Bored +.30
Eagle Crank (forged)
Eagle Forge Connection Rods
TRW forged Pistons
Harland Sharp Aluminum Roller Rockers
Comp Cam (unknow Specs)
AFR 180cc Aluminum Heards
Moroso Shallow 7-qrt oil pan (I installed this for more ground clearance)
Weiand Team G single plan intake manifold
750cc 4bbl Carb
11:1 comression ratio

I was told the motor will make anywhere from 450-500hp.

Inspection showed everything to be in great shape. They headers were rusted and there was no starter or alternator. Both of which are easily replaced.

This is what is looked like where I received it and painted the block


Here is what it looks like cleaned up with new valve cover and some cheap headers.








Car is almost ready for motor installation.

Heres my 2 cents:

Keep it simple, carb or TBI TPI requires firewall mods

It does not matter which one, early or late, whatever you can get your hands on They are both the same dimensions.

I am currently building a SBC 302 to replace my 305. I am using a 1970 LT1 350 block with a real large journal 302 crank. Good luck finding a large journal 302 crank though, the only source I could find for a new one was a raw casting from GM preformance for $620 plus machining. If you go with a pre-69 block you can go small jounal crank, much easier to find a 283 crank.

Many people chime in with the why not put a .... in or a ... in it.

The SBC conversion is easy and relatively inexpensive. and it works, reliably. If you buy a kit, you are ready to go. I thought of switching to the new 5.3L truck chevy, its a junkyard engine now, but that would call for a complete redesign, waterpump, mounts, etc. Thats why I chose to do the 302, simple, bolt in fun.

When I built my car, I wanteed it to be simple and reliable. Currently It has a SBC 305 with a mild cam and a 500 cfm 4barrel with headers. (engine was $300).
The car will do 0-60 in 4 flat and see the other side od 160 MPH with the tall gears (highly reccomended)
I have invested $8k and have put on 25,000 trouble free miles. It has been my favorite car that I have ever owned or driven (and I drive just about every car made for work) And i love passing the guys at work in their vipers or going by a 930 at a PCA event.

Hope this helps
Mark

Mark, neat drawing. Is that a 3d model? SW or Pro-E? How'd ja do it? Score on the crank$$!
Ed

Why not a 4.3 Chevy V6, there is alot of race parts available for this motor and it is a little shorter and can rev pretty high

Some of the chevy V6's cause vibration problems when in a 914. (don't ask which, cause I can't remember) there are a whole bunch of threads on this subject....

The 90 degree engine's are notorious...

I 2nd that statement re: finding a 302 crank to refurb. Small journal block may be your better bet, OR maybe you can get bearing spacers for that combo. I have bearing spacers in my 400 (which is altogether a different story), and don't think they have spacers, but maybe they exist, or maybe extra-thick bearings for the conversion

I am referring to a spacer like this (what I have in my 400 block for the 327 large journal crank) but for a 350 large journal to early small journal in your case:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/aspx/dept.../qx/product.htm

oh yeah, as for the V6 shake, that was basically a vibration issue with the firing difference on the early V6s. They remedied that issue, but to putting a V6 in, I say why??? If a V8 fits, put in the V8! I would only go V6 is the V8 wouldn't fit. And the pulsing from a V6 is different, so less torque is necessary to not tear up the 901 - i.e if 300 from a V8 beats up a 901, then 300 from a V6 would destroy it.