This saturday I have my first A/X. Garold has given me a few tips already for setup, but I'd like to solicit the rest of you for advice. The event is being held at a local airport, and promises a "huge" course, using one of the mile-long runways. Supposedly, the tarmac material is much more abrasive than typical streets or track surfaces. I'm used to driving on a road course (Putnam Park), and I know this will be different and need the car set up differently for optimal performance.

Tires - 205/60-15, I'll set them all to 35 PSI cold
Suspension - I have adjustable Konis (red), and rear springs are 140#, fronts stock. Stock front sway bar, no rear bar. At the track, I have the shocks set at 1/4 turn up from full soft. I'm planning on setting to full hard for saturday.
Brakes - fresh Motul, freshly bled. Hawk pads in good condition. 19mm m/c fwiw

I have all my tools ready to go. I'll be there for the course walk. Is there anything that I've overlooked?

Well I assume you are driving the teener vs. the MCS

If you have done track events before just do what you always do but for Autocross do everything 3 times as quickly.

Having done the opposite AXing for 2 years and then doing my 1st lapping day only 3 weeks ago. I noticed there is more time to set up the car for a turn. Driving the correct line is much more difficult for me running cones because you have several turns linked together within 100 yds.

Walk the course as you intend to drive. Make mental notes of where you believe you can brake hard and then trail brake where to roll on the gas. Most courses for me are 3rd gear with occasional 2nd gear out of tight turns. But that's my ZD 5th in 3rd gear spot for ya.

60 series tires should be interesting. expect to have them roll to the side wall pretty significantly, and require pressures closer to 40 PSI to keep the shape stable and tread in contact with the ground.
I would also run your Koni's @ 1/2 to 3/4 rebound and only adjust the rear. I suspect you will experience loose corner entry which will require stiffer rear rebound so you will need some room to adjust.

Brakes will be fine Hawk what?? Track pads will be useless for AX as you will never build any heat. I would bet better braking on stock street pads. I have yet to put my new Porterfield R4S pads on yet.

Have a good time. Listen to instructor's. Have a good time ! Watch the other cars you can learn a lot about line from fast drivers.. Have a good time, If you are not having fun...Drive faster. Oh be careful

Cheers

You won't have much time for anything other then driving or working the course so don't worry about the car too much unless you need to. Try to have the car ready before you get there. More time to memorize the course! Take an instructor the first few times out. Look ahead. Here's some good reading from the club i belong to:

http://www.motorsportsne.com/2006/rules/msneaxman.htm

Good luck and have fun!

Have fun

Couple of tips:
Bring a hat, sunscreen, water....
Don't worry about the car to much, maker sure its in good nick beforehand.
As your just starting ask for an instructor.
Remove everything that isn't nailed down & bring a good helmet, Ie usual DE rules.

When your done, go relax & upload the pictures

AND WE WANT A FULL REPORT MONDAY BY 6 AM....
Yea what they said have fun.

Thanks everyone!!

Of course I'll be driving my teener. All that is left to be done is put more air in the tires, and maybe adjust the Konis. I already have my tools, sunscreen, water bottles, etc ready to go, just like a lapping day.

The interesting part about this event on saturday is that along with the autox, there is also a skidpad and a 700ft slalom. I have no idea what gear ratios are in my transmission right now. If it helps any, at redline in 4th gear, my speedometer indicates just a tick over 100mph.

I will be sure to file a detailed report by the end of the weekend

brake in a straight line, then turn.


KT

Remove the targa top. Roll both windows down. Add about 1/2 quart more oil.

Optional: Buy very $$$ driving shoes.

Required: Have fun!

Interesting Paul.

I keep my top on the car. 1st because it provides shade, 2nd because I read somwhere that all the wind hitting the rear window will cause the front to push.
Maybe I drive faster than you.

I already knew the extra pint of oil trick. At Putnam, in turn 8, the green idiot light would probably illuminate without the extra motor oil. As it is, running with it overfull, my oil pressure drops to around 10 through that turn...

And my girlfriend recently bought me some nice driving shoes, so I have that covered too.

I had read on here previously that taking the targa top off increases body twisting? I'll probably keep it on just so that I'm not baking in the sun the entire day.

I don't think the f-glass top does anything to decrease flex in the car. The front of the top is attached to the w/s frame which doesn't do anything but hold the glass.

And wind hitting the rear window? Comeon

Providing shade is a good reason to leave it on.

Reducing the weight of the car and reducing the weight of the car at the worst possible place to have weight in the first place is too good not to take advantage of.

It is supposed to be mostly sunny, and I can't fit sunglasses under my helmet.

Good suggestions...

I'd say focus on just a couple things...

1) Prepare to be on your feet for a good portion of the day, wear good shoes. If you use driving shoes in the car, bring a second pair of shoes for when you're not driving.

2) Lots of sunscreen and water and stuff.

3) Clean out the car, set it, and forget it.

4) Find a rookie instructor or somesuch first thing in the morning. Really. It'll save you time in the long run.

5) Get there early. And walk the course as many times as you can. You'll only have a few shots at it at speed, so try to familiarize yourself with the course as much as you can.

6) Walk the course some more.... Try to break up the course in your mind into "sections". Each one leading to the next, so you're only having to visualize different groups of features, and not trying to remember each individual cone. The each individual cone stuff comes later....

7) Oh yeah, walk the course some more...

8) Most importantly though, is ask questions!

And have FUN!!! Stuff comes up at you much quicker at an autox than on the track, try to keep looking ahead as much as possible.

-Josh2

RESULTS!!!

My best time through the autox course was 67.888. I wasn't dead last, but close to it. I'm not disappointed though, it was my first time out. We were supposed to get six runs, but ended up only with four. I never hit a cone, but I DNF'd on my fourth run. The sun was setting and I was having trouble seeing and went off course. The FTD was 51.950, set by a race-prepared Mistubishi Evolution 8 that suppsedly dynoed at 557 HP

I'm told it was a very long course. If I can find a diagram I'll post it. An interesting side note -- there was a timed slalom as the last section of the course. For that segment I was 33rd out of 56 at 4.45 seconds. I'm not sure how long the slalom was. There was also a 200ft skidpad set up, my best time was a tick over 20 seconds, and I haven't seen the final results for everyone posted on that yet. There are pictures, but I do not have them right now. I will add them as soon as I can.

I'm not so sure how much of this I'll keep doing in the future. I knew that it wasn't going to be like a lapping day, and that these events take a lot of work to pull off (especially this one, since it had a bunch of extra things)...but being out there from 7:30am until 8pm, and only getting about 5 minutes of driving doesn't hold so much of my interest. Is this fairly typical for auto-x? My PCA chapter doesn't do autox anymore, only lapping, and I wonder if this is the reason?

We run from 9:45 driver's meeting 'til 4:00-4:30.

10 minutes on track.


KT

unfortunately yea that's about it. Try leaving the house at 3:30 am drive 3 hours set up course, run tech or registration, prep your car, drive, work, drive, work, clean up course, change tires back pack car and 3 hours drive home.
Oh and it averages 95 degrees 100% humidity unless it rains. real fun then.

It's a blast.

I do like lapping. totally different agreed. more expensive and harder on car. I just finished putting new brakes on the car. Trashed the rotors (all four) and pads and a rear trailing arm. and half tread on tires.
Yes I did lots of laps.

Welcome to the world of autocross. That does seems like a longer than normal day.

I got there when the gates to the site opened and the course was already set up. I guess they did it the night before? The drivers meeting was supposed to start at 9:30am, but we just stood around the officials while they small-talked until 10:15. First runs were supposed to be 10:30ish, didn't go until after noon. I was going to stick around and help clean up the course areas, but cars were still running when I left. I did help pick up trash instead. Thankfully, I only had to drive for about 75 minutes to get home instead of 3 hours.


With only 4 runs, I really found it difficult to learn the course very well. There was only enough time during the designated course walking time to walk it twice. I was able to get one ride with someone before it was my turn to drive, but there was so much down time between walking, riding, and driving that I had pretty much forgotten everything but "there are a couple slaloms and a loop".

I'll try it again though - hopefully at an event without 120 cars so that I can get some more driving time.

There is nothing that burns my ass more than wasted time during these events. Set up the course, tech the cars, walk the course, have a short drivers meeting AND GET STARTED!!!

I have often yelled out "What are we waiting for???" To get someone to get things moving. If you're going to conduct the driver's meeting, PLEASE have a list of items to discuss. Don't just try to remember stuff off the top of your head. It is about being prepared. It's a meeting and you'er are running it. Would they do this if it was thier company's monthly meeting and they were running it?

OK, rant over.

sounds like a poorly run AX to tool around until noon -- and makes me appreciate even more what a good job the local pca guys do in the SF bay area. we can get 100+ drivers 7-8 runs each and still leave at 4pm.

Wow, that's a poorly organized group.

If you didn't get on course before noon, you should have been able to walk the course untill your feet hurt. Oh, remember to walk the course more!

The problem with smaller clubs is that there often far too few people that are willing to step up to the plate and help organize it. That means that a small handfull of people are doing all the work (and there is quite a bit to do), and they burn out fast.

I remember even 10 years ago when our local chapter would be struggling to get through an event when more than 100 people showed up. Now, if we get less than 200 it's considered -light- attendance, and our events still run on time and everyone gets at least 4 runs. We made a concerted effort to make sure we ran on time. Things like setup and changeover were key elements to making the day move smoothly.

Maybe they were having a bad day, don't know. But don't give up on autox yet!!!

-Josh2

I had my first taste of a SF Bay Area SCCA event a month ago. Huge registration lines, lots of waiting, four runs and then your out of there. They do have a nice bar code system that allows them to scan all your information into their timing system. Then barcode goes on your car.

I truly appreciate PCA events in our area now! Nice relaxed atmosphere, hardly any waiting, tons and tons of runs.

Dudes........these are volunteers and you get what you pay for.
Anyone that thinks setting up an AX is a walk in the park ought to give it a try.

Without a good core group of knowledgeable volunteers, nothing would get done....so building the group is the first priority. Knowledgeable folks come from the group of competitors......those willing to put time beyond the obivious set-up/tear down.

Several times I have answered folk's complaints with "if you want to influence
the event, volunteer to help out".......mostly that's all it takes.

Most of the time we make our schedule. Sometimes we don't....if you have a problem with that, volunteer to straighten things out. Those worderful people that
make it possible to put on an AX have my undying gratitude.....those who sit back & whine...fuchem'.

I've been involved with my PCA chapter's lapping days for the past few years, and I do have an appreciation for just how difficult it is to run a large event with only volunteers. This was being hosted by a new group, and I have offered to assist them if they continue to do this in the future.

I did get some updated info on why things were delayed so long in the morning. Someone in a N2O equipped Evo decided to make a top speed run down the airport's active runway instead of going to the parking paddock. This made the airport management a little bit "upset" and I have learned that they were on the verge of kicking us all out before anything started....

This is another thing that the PCA seems to do really well - absolutely zero tolerance for fuch'in around. The jerkoff who nearly ruined everything was allowed to stay and participate. At our track events, I've witnessed people being asked to leave on account of their on-track behavior. This past weekend's A/X somehow attracted a whole bunch of the 2Fast2Furious crowd, most of whom have never been to any type of organized event ever, which I can imagine only magnifies any type of organizational chaos. On reflection, I witnessed in the staging area that many of the drivers only cared about getting to the start line and had no concern for running orders or anything that might have helped the stewards keep the day coordinated. Lessons learned in case there is a next time...

Wow, they actually let that bozo stay?!?!?

Man, with any of the clubs I run with, something like that would have resulted in a permanent "go home! and don't come back!" from the event chair, the safety steward, and anyone else who happened to be close by.

Cr*p like that is what makes it harder and harder for legitimate clubs to find sites to run at. 2Fast2Stoopid has created a VERY bad image for sports car enthusiasts. It hurts autoxers especially hard as the sites we use are usually privately owned facilites that are not designed around motorsports (airports, stadium parking lots etc.). And the owners often associate cone-dodgers with street racers. At our local SCCA club, we have a zero tollerance policy in place for that cr*p around our events. We don't want to loose what precious few sites we have...

-Josh2

As Solo Chairman for my SCCA region I can't even to begin to tell you how much a PITA it is to run a event. I am very greatful for my "team" that knows what to do and when. The thing that makes any club event run smooth is the core group of people stepping up and doing their part. For our events it takes a core group of 3 for registration, 2 saftey people, 2 starters, at least two hopefully 4 for timing, 2 for grid, and 2 for tech. So it 11 - 14 people to run the event PLUS the drivers to work the course when they are not running.

Geoff, check out your local SCCA region and attend a few of their Solo II events. I'm not sure what PCA in Indy does for Ax. Both should give a better understanding of how Solo II / AX events "should" be ran. Heck if you are not busy come up Sunday and run our AX event

I do intend to check out the local SCCA. My PCA chapter has been trying to get an a/x organized, but we can never get the critical mass needed to host our own - there just doesn't seem to be too much interest. I was hoping to learn some more about running an a/x this past weekend so that I might be the catalyst CIRPCA needs to have our own event.

Where do you run your event?

Pictures!!
Click to view attachment

That is quite a bit of body roll. Coming off a slalom, heavy braking into a tight left hand turn

Click to view attachment

Speed!

Click to view attachment
Last one for now

Great Shots! Your car looks great! You definitely need a bigger front swaybar!

thanks for the pics!!

Our a/x's at LPR, GGR and RR PCA's seem to always turn out well.


KT

Is that the same surface that the "2 wheeled" cars run on?
1st picture looks like you are attempting a "Fritz"

What Tiars you got on that car?

Attempting a Fritz

Tires are 205/60-15, Pirelli P6000. I know they are not optimal, but they were on sale. The front sway bar is stock from the factory. I used to have a large rear swaybar, but I took it off. Rear springs are 140#. I did set all tire pressures to 40psi cold.

This event was held in Anderson, IN at Darlington Field (KAID) using the parking tarmac (pictures show this part), taxiways, and part of one of the runways.

A "Fritz is going up on 2 wheels in a turn.

I think those tarmac pieces of concrete have insane grip.

Be careful out there.

Geoff currently we are running at the Lake County Government complex in Crown Point. This is not the best lot but our only choice for this year our other two locations are under construction. I know its late notice but we are running this Sunday (6/11) if you have time to come out. Here is a link to our SCCA region website with details. INR SCCA

"Fritz"


KT

Video from the A/X

Sadly there is no 914 content in that video, but you do get to take multiple runs through the course. The veterans said it was very long and very complex.

What do you think?