I put my old set of 710's back on 5½ rims for a/x only.

We had thought they lost their new tire tire grip.
After about 7 a/x's and 14-16 hours of track time they finally gave it up.

I was spinning out all day. I first thought it was due to going back on the narrow rims while overdriving the car. My head kept telling me I was on 7's.

Could have been. I finally got "my" run at the end of the day. Even with these tire scalded, I was able to get within 2 seconds of TTOD and may have been in the top five.
After the day was over I had a 2 inch wide corded patch around most of the left rear tire.


Fun day.

Crazy thing was, on the run's when I spun out and came to complete stop, I still beat some people. Cost me about 6-7 seconds.

KT

good thing none of your competitors saw the cord....they could protest you and throw out your last run....not good if that was your best of the day...

Really? protest?
Wow...

Here's how it came down:

58- spin
58-spin ( noticed some chunking )
53- clean
57-spin
53-clean
54- clean
51- clean
59- spin ( corded )


KT

Also TTOD guy had the slowest time of the day as well.

:49 and 2:17

KT

Yes, the rules used to specifically state that you could not be showing any cord after a run...if you were and protested your run just previous to discovering the cording would be removed.

I dont' know if it is in the new points system....although that type of stuff was not supposed to be changed or eliminated.
who knows for sure.......it boils down to a safety issue...

Great to see that 710's last so long!

SCCA has that rule.
at least our Region does.
Trek you can only drive to the limit of the tires. Smoother with less wheel spin is usually faster.

Rea wheels spin when coming unloaded in a turn. More spring less rear bar and less rear camber.

not so much, actually, in my experience. i've run 4 AXs on them, with tire reconditioner/maintainer after each day. after 3 AXs my 710s lost significant performance. my hoosier's were competitive through 4 AX's, lasted through 6. but the 710s are already worse than my hoosiers on their 6th AX.

that's okay, they've got an ass-load of rubber still, so i'll use them for a couple summer DEs.

ymmv, maybe i'm harder on tires than trek. certainly, it's easier to overdrive the 710s -- they work at higher slip angles and are much more progressive than the hoosiers.

KT

HA! good work, trek.

How do u get 7 inch wide rims on this car? Is it sensible to say you have to do a five-lug conversion to get the appropriate rims on there as well as the fender flares?[


quote name='trekkor' date='Jun 4 2006, 02:32 PM' post='695413']
I put my old set of 710's back on 5½ rims for a/x only.

We had thought they lost their new tire tire grip.
After about 7 a/x's and 14-16 hours of track time they finally gave it up.

I was spinning out all day. I first thought it was due to going back on the narrow rims while overdriving the car. My head kept telling me I was on 7's.

Could have been. I finally got "my" run at the end of the day. Even with these tire scalded, I was able to get within 2 seconds of TTOD and may have been in the top five.
After the day was over I had a 2 inch wide corded patch around most of the left rear tire.


Fun day.

Crazy thing was, on the run's when I spun out and came to complete stop, I still beat some people. Cost me about 6-7 seconds.

KT
[/quote]

You can find new custom made wheels and used wheels that are 7" wide. I fit 8" custom made Kiezer wheels under my rolled rear fenders. Both require baseball bat rolling of the rear fender lip and proper back spacing. Front fenders dont require any mods.

custom made 7" steel wheels with 5" backspace.

KT

I like my Kiezer's.

Nathan nailed it.

The 710's dont last Kuhmo specifically tells you this in their data sheet.

One solid weekend of front class running road racing and they are done.

They last longer in a AutoX scenerio, but I still only got 4 autoX's on them before they were worthless (running in the top 10 at 140 car+ events)

Be VERY careful with some of this information.

Somebody who runs 15seconds a lap slower than you in the same car on the same tires.. will obviously run longer on his tires.

Right now I'm trying to get twenty hours of track time at DE's.
These tires should get me that.

Competitive laps times are not important to me...yet.

When I finally time trial I hope to have a second set of stickies.


KT

I corded my Hoosiers at B'willow this weekend. After adding up the heat cycles (mostly track day run groups - only 2 autox events) I tallied ~ 25 cycles or run groups. Am considering replacing with Avon product similar to the R304S. Anyone had track experience with these - longevity - "sticktion" or "feel" of these vs the Hoosiers on track.
Greg

SO I am allowed one stupid question a day and this is it.
Why not buy some REAL slicks and go fast. instead of DOT R tires?

Would they not last as long? R45 compound Hoosiers surely would be sticker and last longer. Probably not worth beans for AX.

GRmotorsports article on street and r compounds

http://www.grassrootsmotorsports.com/image...15_tiretest.pdf

Why use race tires when your not racin'?

Hmmm Well I uh know a guy. take off slicks are cheaper than DOT R tires. just happens I probably got too wimpy of a tire this time around. Hey ya got to learn from your mistakes. Damn I should be a freaking genious by now.

some don't want to flare their car, some feel they have more to learn before stepping up to even stickier tires (which can cover mistakes), some want to properly brace their chassis before subjecting 30 year-old spot welds to such massive forces... BUT, slicks are faster, no doubt about it -- and prolly cheaper if you stick to take-offs.

Sorry about parsing ya like this, but
I keep reading this.....I never have gotten it. I make mistakes all the time and they're always hanging out there for God & everyone to see. I never spent much time on shitburger tiars....are you trying to say that had I done that I wouldn't be making these mistakes that have turned me into a laughing stock for all my AX buddies?

Do I need to go back & try again?

Are you coming to the WCC to show me how to do this stuff?

as far as i'm concerned, the only way out is through, so i figure you'll be mounting some formula atlantic slicks on your ride soon. go for it, pick up some time, slay the field, and take home the trophy girls.

anyway, i think this advice applies more to track than AX.



no, dissertation and stuff. but you should be teaching me, mr. experience.

Interesting point of view Nathan, I got video of my mistakes now and have vowed to learn where the brake pedal is. Biggest mistake I make is not braking hard enough before I turn.
G-tech also shows me how far I am stepping out of the traction circle.
and as far as taking the trophy girls home. Well uh yea that would be cool too.

Here is the pic of the pass side R3S04's - down to the steal belts on ~25% of the circumference. Running just north of 2 degrees neg camber - inside portion of tire is GONE. Just amazing this didnt have a bad ending. Gonna buy some R3S06 (new) Hoosiers next week. Nearly every track day was at Thunderhill running ccw - mostly left handers so the pass side went away prior to driver side rear.
gw

you don't rotate your tires, greg?

Nate,
Can't swap front to rear - running 7" and 8" rims...but good call on the left to right swappage - given how hard T'hill is on the pass side going ccw.

oh -- i see. one of the virtues of running 4 same sized tires!

AMEN about THill. i started my passenger side tires like 5lbs less than my driver side a few weeks ago at THill -- and they ended up the same at the end of my session.

JP,

street tires force you to be smooth. Race tires allow you to do whatever the hell you want.

We can all install race tires, but can we go fast on street tires?

I ran a 914 this past weekend on street tires. It reminded me quickly why I preach the whole street tire thing to people. I was only off the fast time for our class by 1 second and everyone else was on Kuhmo sticky tires. I was on 4 year old Yokohama AVS 205/60's.

I love slicks.


B

I agree street tires for begginers, however a good driver can take away seconds with slicks. I had the fortune of running against a well driven 1.8 BX class car most of last season. Our cars were ealmost exactly the same. I was typically a 1/2 second off his time when I ran A032Rs and he was on Victoracers. Then I showed up to an event with Hoosiers and beat him by almost a half a second. Then he upgraded to Hoosiers and I couldnd beat him for the rest of the season. Tires do make a big diiference for drivers who have basic skills. Most of us on the Paddock forum would benefit from good slicks.

I beat half a field of Porsches in my Toyota Echo on street tires last year at a PCA AX. Driving is certainly the biggest component, but once you figure out the driving piece tires make a huge diference.

I'm fairly convinced that I would have faster times if I went to true race slicks.

i was out mowing the yard tonight ( race gas in the tank ) and was thinking about adding flares over the winter so I can run Canti's.

Is that wierd?


KT

Running flares & cantis on your lawnmower would fall under the wierd classiification, me thinks.

AHHahahaha!!

good one.

keep it narrow, trek! a) your paint is to nice, and our cars are similarly prepped --- makes for better bench racing!

btw (back on topic) -- i've got 4 AX's and 3 track days on my 710's. they were not terribly competitive after their 3rd AX, even though there was plenty of rubber. they tend to over heat after a few laps on the track in hot weather, but that's to be expected with any AX-suitable tire, me thinks. even over-heated, they are fairly progressive...

the new issue (Aug 06) of GRM has a Kumho 710 vs. Hoosier A6 comparison. very informative. the average times were almost EXACTLY the same, but the tires acheived those times in a remarkably different way.

That was an interesting article. I never really liked the way the Hoosiers felt, but they sure did hook up nicely.

funny, as i prefered the hoosiers, even though they were a bit more challenging to drive in some respects. have mounted your 710s, grant? why didn't you drive the /6 yesterday?

the 710s will ROCK up the hill climb.