Ok guys. I've done my searches and asked questions, but I am still unsatisfied with my current grasp of the subject.

I know that a lot depends on the region you live in and the type of racing you want to do, but I'm trying to get together enough information to start putting the car together to class specs of some sort.

The last thing I want to do is to end up being completely uncompetitive due to how the 914 is classed or end up racing with a bunch of stuck up weenies or playing nascar wanabee with a bunch of red necks.

So, here is my objective.... If I'm going to go racing, I don't want it to be pretend, I'm pretty competitive, and a wall full of vanity trophies that really mean nothing doesn't excite me. I want real competition so there is a true sense of satisfaction for doing well, in addition to being challenged by the skill of the other cars and drivers.

I know if you put a wazoo engine in a lesser prepared car, you'll get classed with the GT3's and such and get eaten alive. At the same time, I can't be that guy racing the stock 1.7L against the clock while everyone else is mixing it up.

In terms of performance, I have a few options currently. I have John Peterson's old track car. It's got 911 suspension, fuel cell, fire system, bolt in cage, running a warmed over four cylinder. It will be getting a real cage before I race it.

I have a tons (literally) of type 4 stuff, and a few strong engines, extra sets of webers, etc.

I also have currently have three six cylinder engines. #1 a 1969 true 2.0S motor, low time and 170hp from the factory. #2 is a 1976 2.7L rebuilt to very hot street specs with a lot of cam, should be 230hp +/- on pump gas #3 is an early 3.6L that has a broken head stud, it will need upgraded rod bolts anyway to race it.

I know any race motor is going to get beat on, so I'm trying to accept the fact that an otherwise nice motor could go boom. None of these motors was built as a spec engine for a race class, so I doubt It will be a class leader, but I don't want to be a dog either.

My gut is telling me that a light 914 with the 2.0S six would be a fun ride, and not so fast that you are with the big boys. The 2.7L could be too much for a first track car if it's classed with the high HP stuff. I'm a pretty good driver, but I'm trying to be realistic.

Congratulations if you've read this far, I'm impressed.

On to the racing groups. There is GGR HSR VRA PCA POC SCCA and I'm sure a bunch of others. I've heard that in the SCCA classes that the 914 runs in you'll be banging doors with a bunch of shit boxes that don't mind rubbing fenders with your nice porsche.

I've been out to several POC events with John P., and while it was ok, I didn't get a great vibe, as a group. Maybe I missed something, but it seemed like it was missing something.

I guess ultimately I have to decide to race with one group and travel as needed to compete, or just cherry pick the events from a variety of groups. I'd prefer to race with one group, I think it would be much more competitive and the satisfaction of finally beating someone you've been chasing would be great.


I have to decide before I'm too old or too fat to take it seriously. According to Brant's math, at $50 per pound I can pay myself $1500 for losing 30 pounds, that's a pretty good incentive to get in shape.

So, someone figure this all out and fill me in.

Obviously there is no one right answer to your dilema.
As far as what class to set the car up for, pick a group to run with, get their rule book and then decide. I think you'll find that the 914 is at a disadvantage with most rule books. Possibly because they were too successful for many years, now they are not usually at the top of the class without meticulous preparation and great driving.
As to which group to run with, part of the answer is who has the most events within driving distance of where you live. If you want to run with serious racers only, you probably should set yourself up to get an SCCA license. I've been running with the POC for about 4 years and have enjoyed every event. Getting an SCCA license is part of my long range plan. Mainly just to get some other experiences.
After I turned 50 I decided it was now or never to do wheel to wheel racing. It's sometimes hard to justify the costs, but I didn't want to be turning 70 and wish I'd done it.
I'm sure someone will give you more specific info on car classing. With the POC I'm V-3/R5, which is one of their most competitive classes. I struggle to run mid pack. My goal is to work my way to a top 10 finish, I'm the only 914 in most of our races. Stubborn or stupid? The difference is only in the spelling.

When I started campaigning the car, about half of the other teeners racing in various groups on the west coast were 4 cyl cars. By the time I sold you the car, I was running against nothing but 6's. That silver 356 the one day was one of the few fast 4's around these parts. If you are going to race a type 4, it better be a hot one. I think I would go for a small 6. It still better be souped up. A big 6 is gonna put you up against competition with serious $$$$'s.

I liked racing with the PCA but they travel all over the country.

There are a lot of really fast cars in POC.

SCCA does not race in Vegas. I really enjoyed racing with them, but that was in a Mazda Spec RX-7.

The 914 seemed to fit in with the vintage groups well. HSR had a Porsche 2 liter class. I had fun in VARA racing against lots of different types of cars.

It is nice to travel and race at a variety of tracks. It is really nice when you get to race at the LV Speedway or Spring Mountain in Pahrump. You not only have home field advantage, but you get to sleep in your own bed and only have to fill up the tank of the tow vehicle once.

#1 - get the rule books from the groups you think you might want to run with. Put yourself in a position where you can be competitive.

I was going to say that from the sound of it your car would be V5 in the POC. That seems to be a fun class with very fast 4's. My friend runs a 914 in V5 but only in the Short Track Series at The Streets of Willow. He has the class record in each direction. His car harasses a lot of big money cars there. He runs a 911 on the big tracks because his gearing limits him on the straights in the 914.
As you probably know the POC does one event each year at LVMS. They dropped the Phoenix date. We also run at Buttonwillow, Infinion, Laguna Seca, California Speedway, and Willow Springs is our home track. If you think you can handle the drive to those events let me know and I'll give you more info on the whole program.
Vintage racing is something I plan on trying in the future, but I suspect you'll find the on track competition a little less intense. Which can be a good thing.

Thanks John and Drew, that's the kind of advice I was looking for. Do to my rather ridiculous parts stash, it can be a real challenge to commit to a set of specs.

I'll echo what was said already. Pick a club, pick a class, read the rules (a lot) and prepare to that class. Anything else is just having fun at the track. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but if you want to compete seriously, you need to prepare to the limit of the rules. Everyone else on the podium will have done so already. You don't get there any other way. And no two classes in any club or clubs will have the same preparation allowances.

Yes, having a store house of parts is great, and can be a good starting point, but it really won't automatically put you in a good spot to build a competitive car for multiple classes.

Once you decide that wheel to wheel is it, and that you want to compete seriously. Really weigh out what level you want to dive in to. A built race motor is a given. And they aren't cheap, no matter how you slice it. And every class will have different rules on how you can build the motor. There are three important things you need to do when building a racer for a specific class.

1) Read the rules.
2) Consult the bank account.
3) Read the rules again.

Repeat as needed....

-Josh2

Steve,

there are different attitudes or flavors for the different sanctioning bodies.
I'd visit some of the races held around you.

its going to come down to whom is in your area, and then which of them has the best "feel"

my typical recommendation is to start small, with a stock-ish type class so that its not about $. Then get some seat time affordably before you know exactly what and where you want to go.

my background is pca and club racing...
but I'm really loving the vintage scene right now because the people are so friendly and so invested in their cars. Every single entrant I've met has been approachable and all it takes to start up a conversation is a simple "nice car" comment before a friendship is borne... its more about the comraderie, but the racing can still be intense!

brant

Great insight from everyone. I just don't want to make a stupid mistake like putting a 300hp 3.6L in and becoming a speed bump for the cup cars.

I need to check the value of the 2.0S motor, and as long as it's not worth too much, I'll commence flogging it in the near future. I've always liked Brant's car, and I think the power to weight ratio is healthy enough to be fun, but not crazy. In fact, maybe I'll just race Brant!

Now, off to the lab

I agree with putting the most emphasis on getting seat time. Racing is an evolution of both the car and driver. You'll have a better feel of what you want to be racing and against who after you've done some events. Keeping a low profile and my nose clean was the number one priority while I went through the program to get a race license. Best to develop the driver first and the car second. Nobody likes to be slow, but speed seems to come in small increments so don't sweat it at first.

heck Ya!!
I'd love that...
why don't you drive out for a vintage event.
my club is traveling a ton since we lost most of our tracks.

I'm not going to make it, but there is a big event at miller in a couple 3 weeks..
or come out to Colorado for the enduro and I'll put you up!

brant

I'd mostly agree with the "pick a class and go" sentiment. The way to pick a class is to attend some events as a non-competitor and just see what appeals to you. Pick the tracks you're most likely to travel to as a competitor (Vegas' own track, Phoenix, Willow Springs, and Buttonwillow, I'd say), and see what runs in what classes with what organizations.

Look at PCA, SCCA, and whatever vintage organizations run near you. Buy copies of everyone's rules books.

One cautionary note I will make is that you shouldn't expect to be instantly competitive. You should expect to be a rolling chicane for even other cars in your class for at least the few event or two, and perhaps the first season or two. Not because you're being out-spent or out-prepared but because you'll be going up against guys that have 10-20 years more track experience than you do. I've seen far too many racers get all worked up, convinced they were going to be dicing for the lead in their first events, only to be bitterly disappointed when they found themselves lapped. It takes time to be competitive, so be patient.

IMHO, what class you run in is almost immaterial for most people in their first events. I'd prep the car to the safety rules, make some swags at setup, use the most reliable engine you have, then just drive the car for awhile. After a bit, you'll have some idea of what you're up against, and what direction you want to go with the car and your driving career. Only then should you spend big money to build a car to the limit.

The "too old" part should also be discounted. There are PLENTY of guys still racing competitively in their 60s. Most of them would probably kick your ass if you had a 3.0 and they ran a 1.7.

So this is tough love..... actually it's exactly what I needed. I'm also half way done reading through Brant's build thread again, and it's enlightening.

It hurts to say, but maybe racing John's car with a little work and staying four cylinder is the best way to start. That way I could get some seat time and enjoy myself while building a more developed car on another chassis.

I can't believe you don't think I'll be winning races my first weekend! Have you no faith? All I have to do is build a car strong enough to stay together after I've knocked all the other cars off the track.

That and selective color blindness so you can avoid seeing the black flag being waived menacingly at you.

-Josh2

At least in the vintage world you rarely run into the case of going head to head with some 20 year old kid who's been pounding around kart tracks since he was 8. These are the competitors to fear.

My track experience has all been on bikes, from racing them *mumble* years ago. My last race weekend, I finished second. The leader lapped me, on a bike that was half the weight and twice the power of mine, he was only 13 years old, and he was small for 13 (weighed maybe 75lbs, I was about 140lbs then, I won't say what I am now). He'd already been racing bikes for 7 years by that time. He went on to become something of a figure at the National level, until his younger brother came along and totally eclipsed him. Said younger brother is now running at the World level (Nicky Hayden, for those who follow bike racing), and older brother Tommy (that 13 year old) has pretty much vanished from the scene. I don't think Tommy is even 30, yet.

There are a couple of bad drivers, but I mostly disagree with this statement.

I moved out of IT because people don't value their cars enough to keep from hitting others. In production, the people have more $$ in their cars and value them more.... hence less contact. I know of 1 driver in my region that I avoid at all costs (he runs in FP) and there are 2 (also in FP) I avoid at all costs in the Northweast region. Anyway, the point is, in my experience it's been pretty easy to keep my car from getting damaged. I'm sure as I get faster it will become more difficult, but this has been my experience.

I noticed that a black 914 that won a national title (not sure which class) did so by punting the first place car off line from the rear. There was a picture in Wheels of the contact. Not the way I'd want to win but that's why I'd never win a national title. That and no talent.