I'm going to upload a picture of this when I get time but here is the jist...

Just got my (new) engine appart from what was obviously a valve train fault.

All of the lifters on ONE SIDE of the engine had failed very badly with minimal milage on it. They had completely worn away the cam surface and are just holed out now. No other signs of problems in the motor other then the cam surface is also screwed. The other side of the motor the lifters are still in pretty good shape.

Details on the engine setup...

Less than 20mi on motor since assembled
Stock valves
Stock springs
stock rockers
stock rods
stock lifters
mild aftermarket cam

Any ideas what could cause this? As I plan on putting the engine back together with new lifters and cam but I am leary without finding a "smoking gun".

BTW - If anyone knows where I can find some 96mm piston rings I have the details on them in the want adds forum.

THANKS!
James Renfrew

Same thing happened to me a few years ago. Any chance your engine was built by FAT Performance of Orange Callifornia? I finally got a set of ceramic lifters (thanks again Clayton) which is the ultimate if somewhat expensive answer to the lifter problem.
Cheers, Elliot

Sorry not FAT. But I think the cam did come from there and they were really crappy with the warranty on it or lack of I should say. The lifters were in mint shape when they went in and now obliterated.

I wonder if you didn't have a oil passage clog up and stop lubing that side of the cam/lifters, could happen.

Lifter failures, sad to say, have become a fact of life in the Type IV world. Something happened in the past ~5 years or so, and the quality of lifters and cam blanks evidently went into the sewer. Do a search on "lifter" (especially on the Shoptalk Forums Type 4um) and you'll see a bunch of horror stories.

The ceramic lifters are a very expensive solution which is supposed to work very very well indeed. Sadly, the supplier is not supplying very well at the moment. I think Jake had figured out how to get cams and non-ceramic lifters that would not shred each other. John C over at aircooled.net might have as well.

My motor was built with a FAT cam and lifters, something like 12 years ago. I had one lifter come apart on me right after the motor was built (though I think that was a result of the valve seat dropping) and FAT replaced it with no hassle.

--DD

This failure was using factory original lifters and not aftermarket or OEM replacements.

There was plenty of oil in both valve covers and the rocker assemblies.

There was oil in the push rods but I can't say for sure if there was actual flow.

Its not about oil rather the cam/lifter hardness matching each other. I recommend only using Jakes cam/lifters at this time as he has done the research to beat the problem.

The ceramic lifters is another solution if you have to use someone elses cam. (why)


The is/was a problem of bad materials being shipped in to the cam/lifter grinders.

There was an interesting article in Hot rod mag for June. Engine oils have been changing over the last several years. There are anti wear components that are being removed. These contain Phosophorus and zinc IIRC. When a motor gets old these components get burned and pollute the air. I always thought that a name brand oil every 3k was what to do. After reading the article I decided to use a better oil. I just started using Royal Purple 10W 40. I decided on this from what I have heard here. The mag also suggested using an oil for Diesel trucks (Shell Rotella) or racing oils. The article is an interesting read and is related to our solid tappets. This is not to say this caused your problem. That may well be a component failure. The article included coments about manufacture problems and shortages about cams and lifters.

Mark

I believe I told you (and so did others) to ditch the cam and get a cam and lifter "set" from Jake. Didn't save much money did you...

Not trying to be a dick, but I see this all the time, cutting corners to save a buck, only to see it bite you on the ass.

Stock lifters haven't worked with performance cams for years, Scat lube-a-lobes are shit, etc, etc.

Buy a matched set from Jake or me (Jake) and you won't have these issues.

Thanks for the feedback, but I haven't assembled the engine since "you told me" so.

I use WebCams when I do T4 motors, and they insist that their lifters be used as well. After a number of lifter failures with other combos, the WebCam sets have been gratifyingly trouble free. The Cap'n

GOOD!

Now get a set from Jake and be done with it!

Even Web-Cam has a less than perfect record.

They do seem to be better than most, though.

The greatly-reduced amount of ZDDP in the current formulations of most oils may be a factor as well. I know that Kendall GT-1 got reformulated about five years ago, and is no longer green. They also took out most of the ZDDP, which means that I'll be looking for another oil to use when I am done with my current case.

--DD

ZDDP?

Zip Dip Drip Protection?

Zerious Drippink Der Porsche

A special additive to maintain the constant dripping that all porsche owners expect.

R

Nope, Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphate.

--DD

When we were racing the 1/4 mile boats we would see time and time again guys in the pits put a $150 stick in a $25,000 engine.
The damn cams woud go flat on the trailer and they would put themselves out of the next round...
Not to mention the damage done to the rest of the engine and the resultant teardown.
I don't skimp anywhere in the valve train, not saying you did, the cam in the black car we bought Genuine P-car , NOS.
I only want to build them once .

JT

Hi

Your using oem lifters, so I would have to agree with


This could happen, thier error was in the handling of the warrenty, very strange about the "one side" thing, vary suspicious
I posted a quick question about Fat awhile back, and was told ...politely...they are stong T4 people, kick ass work, whats changed?
Some questions need to be thought about here, why just one side? Is it possible to, unkowingly, make a mistake in machineing, and loose the hardening on one side, can a cam blank be screwed up in the manufacturing process causing this wear?.Or do we have a case issue?. I realy hate to say this but if it was me, I would have the case sent out to have checked and line board, even if it was already done, ask him to recheck it. Mixing cam and lifter suppliers is not agood thing. Where's Alpha?

Keep us posted!
P.S. My Webcam still runs after 15+ years, they insisted I take thier kit, with lifters and maby (I forget) gears.

Good luck with it
Later

I think the first question is....

EXACTLY how did you break your cam in?

In essence.

At what RPM did you break your cam in at?

How long (minutes) did you keep it at that RPM?

And did you vary the RPM during this cam break in period?

Did you start it and stop it during the cam break in? If so, how many times?

Also you said you used STOCK lifters and a mild cam.

Were the stock lifters new?

Or did you have used stock lifters refurbished? or were they simply re-used?

Where did the lifters come from? Were they supplied to you? Or did you have them from the beginning?

Was the cam a Web, Euro, Gex or a named brand aftermarket cam? You stated you thought it was FAT. Are you sure?

(NOTE: FAT was trying to but lifters from Jake because of their Ttype 4 lifter/cam issues were becoming VERY problamatic)

I am asking all these questions because you apparently have a really anomalous and very interesting issue with your lifters/cam combo.

I find it intriguing that the lifters on ONE side of the engine went flat.

And I want to understand how this happened.

I have done much homework on this subject specific to type 4s.

And I am REALLY interested on seeing how this came about.

Therefore some history of the engine build is in order if we are to help you with everything we know.

I also agree with many of the fellas here that suggested you get a Jake Raby cam.
More importantly: You will probably get better horse power, torque and cooling with his cams and lifter setups. (Thats typical)

So please get back to this thread with the answers posed in this blurb.

Oh... And before I forget................

WELCOME...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cause you came to da right place..!!

Twystd1

what she said?

Whatchoo talking Willis...???

Twystd1

Every time i cam goes flat, god kills a kitten....





And... it's claytons fault. LOL

Hmmmmm.....let me guess....was it the 2/4 exhaust lobe that went south?....just a wild guess.





Never use a stock lifter with an aftermarket cam. Never.

Hey Mark, You thinking what I am thinking?

Lets wait for the answers and see what is really going on with this lifter issue.

If you're thinking what I'm thinking, then I'm thinking what you're thinking and then I was thinking like woooh dOOd that will take some thinking.

I used that exclusively for years until they decided to "fix it" Was it only 5yrs ago? Seems longer, but probably jus' bcuz I miss my green orel.

JR....

Whered ya go...????????

We need info!!!!!!

Twystd1