Have a day off & doing some 914 cleaning & tinkering. Removed my hubcaps to see if anything needed a going over & it brought to mind a judging incident at (I think) the Traverse City Parade in '89.

I eventually lost out to the class winner by 1 3/4 points (yeah, I keep records of this stuff too) & pretty much figured I couldn't win because I had my chrome wheels & Yoko tires on for the auto-x. But I missed 2nd place by a .2 point. Why, because one of the judges decided he wanted to see under one of my hubcaps! Bear in mind that the 1st & eventually 2nd place cars had alloys. Though I'd detailed everything under all the caps the prior afternoon, I felt it unfair since other cars were not assked to do so. Reluctantly pulled off a cap. Dew from the early morning had condensed on the inside of the hubcap & I was gigged a half point. Fell to third - the only time I've ever finished less than second at a Parade, or anywhere. Bitter pill to me.

So, what's your opinion? I don't ever protest, because I've always felt I was fairly beaten. It's like getting a speeding ticket - I've never gotten one I didn't deserve. But what would you do in a similar situation?

I'd forgotten about this incident for many years until today, when I pulled off the first hubcap.

maybe they should pull off the cyllinder heads on each car and see who has the most carbon build up. were you gigged again for not aligning the hubcap correctly after it was removed? seems abit excessive but now you have something else to clean

Next thing you'll be telling me (as a newbie) is that judges suck the tail pipe to determine it your running to rich or to lean.....

I didn't think you could be judged on a "internal" part of the car, for example, inside cylinder heads, inside the gas tank, inside the oil filler, inside the hubcaps?

Figured you'd be the first to comment on this!

By the way, the very first Parade I competed in was in 1973 (Poconos). All hubcapped cars had to remove all of them & display them next to each wheel in the grass. Everything was removed from the front trunk & displayed on top of the spare tire cover - all tools removed from the pouch & lined up in front of the car. Frankly, it was kinda cool but someone would always walk by & inadvertantly kick the spare cover. Your display was wrecked!

Back then the judges were REALLY looking for dirt. They could reach for & touch anything they wanted (and always found a piece of gook up under the motor!). In fact, they even reached inside the tailpipe to tyry to find some exhaust residue! Funny thing is, contemporay Parades are MUCH tougher & the judges have been restricted as to efforts to find crud. And I think the cars are better prep'd.

Don't think that would happen today. Judging today is done by "professionals" - people who really know the models they judge. They're more concerned with prep & originality, though they still love to find dirt. You are "selected" as a knowledgeable source to be a Parade judge now. Back then, you were chosen as a judge only if you were the slowest to try to run away! "What have to been driving for the last 15 years?" "356? - good, you're a perfect 911 judge"

Things are definitely more professional now & I'm appreciative of that.

I think you should have protested before you took the hub cap off and pointed to the other contenders lack of hub caps. Yes, I've seen them pull hub caps in other shows and not just Porsche concours. But, the judge should make it an even playing field. When I'm judging 356's, I request that all ragtops must be up including windows at least 75% up. This gives everyone the same playing field. If they don't, I gig them for that item or I don't gig the others. Depends on the given situation.
Take chrome bumpers on the early 914 cars vs. crash bumpers on '75/'76 cars. How do you keep the field equal?

Don

I've only been doing local events here since 2001, which require alot of work, but nothing to the level you do Pat. The zone and national events must really bring out some exceptional cars. Too much for me. As a matter of fact when they had the Zone 1 here in NJ, I drove down to the event but didn't bother entering being my rocker panels were still in the shop being refinished. In hindsite I should of parked it on the lawn with the others for grins and giggles. The car was prepped, but not finished.
As soon as you drive the car (which I like to do often), your spending countless hours getting it to that level again. So, I try to get the best of both worlds so to speak. I drive it and enjoy it, and maybe spend a week or so going over it prior to a local event.
PA isnt too far, let me know if your showing in events this summer. Plan on going to that VW event Dave mentioned in Sept?

No events for me this year. Motor's going to come out because of an oil leak - sealing ring between case & barrel has apparently gone belly up. As long as I have it out, I want to refinish some pieces I'm not happy with. You'll see me asking for suggestions on some of those as I progress.

You're correct about the quality of MOST of the national event cars - it is usually awesome. But I'd never let that keep me from showing a respectable 914. It's still a lot of fun, with no downside - your car will never be as well detailed as that day. I used to stress out about not placing first but think I'm past that now. Not that I won't try to win, but just being amongst kindred freaks is worth some grins.

If it doesn't interfere with a vacation (not certain), I am definitely going to the VW event, as a spectator. I'm originally from Cincinnati (still have my regional PCA affiliation with Ohio Valley Region) & they have a really super VW-Porsche event every year - hundreds of cars - lots of fun. I expect this event to be similar & it doesn't hurt that I'm a vdub fan.

Pat,

If you will remember, years back at PCA Zone 1 Concours events there were two judging sessions. The first determined the division winners, the second was a re-judging of the division winners for Best in Show. So on the first go around you were judged against cars of the same type; 914's against 914's, 911's against 911's etc. However for best in show you (or in this case my 914) was competing against 356's, 911's, 924's, Boxsters, etc. Talk about inconsistancies! There is no way to have an equal playing field with such variation. That's why judging has to be subjective. Even with a points system, it all really boils down to a subjective assignment of a number quantifying a car's presentation. With this in mind you are going to run across seemingly gross inconsistancies that make absolutely no sense to the participants but, for whatever reason, the judge felt a need to differentiate in order to "fine tune" the number he or she must put on the score sheet. If you approach judged cars shows with this in mind you will tend to be less stressed out, relax and have fun.

Some examples of some wierd judging with my 914:

-In the re-judging for Best in Show I got points off for dirt on the fan belt. I was a bit taken back by this but, when you are judged against cars that literally have never been driven, have no oil in the crankcase or trans and trailered, the judges have to get real intense. There are literally 10ths of a point that separate the top 5 cars.
-I have, and continue to have points taken off for a lumpy dash and excess glue on the dash mating surfaces, all of which were original from the factory. I refuse to fix them because it is original.
-I came in second at one Zone 1 event to a guy that had a very non-stock modified 914 that drove his car to the event and received so many mileage points that he actually got over 300 points out of a maximun 300. Wow, that's better than a perfect score! I remember being a little miffed by this and asked the head judge that if this had been a Porsche Parade how would I have done. His answer was I would have won but, in an effort to attract more participants, the rules were relaxed regarding originality. So now I don't go crazy prepping the car for Zone events anymore. Can't get over 300 points by just prepping!

My take on the whole Concours thing now is to go an just have fun. If I win; great. If not; no big deal. Sure, you're going to have some questionable judging, but I'm not going to get all puffed up over it. I still trailer my car though. Why? Gives me more time to drink beer and BS with all the people I've had the pleasure of meeting through the years!

Dave

Yeah Dave, you're correct there. I've trailered my 914 before for Parades, but somehow spent just much time w/prep. While all others are swilling beer & eating dogs, we're mucking around cleaning. I CAN honestly say that don't own a set of tire "footies" yet, but who knows. By the way congrats on your recent win. We could sure use some detailed photos. PG