Folks that have built 2056 motors...what was your final compression ratio?

This is for a streetable motor that will also be used for Track/AX duty.

I am planning on using Stock FI from my '74 2.0L. Along with appropriate Web cam and lightened flywheel.

What type of pistons have you used?

Did you get your own Cylinders bored out, or did you get a package with Ps & Cs?

My goal was essentially indentical to what yours sounds like.

2056 while maintaining d-jet. Here's what I found:

For the most part, the 96mm P&C's that are available new aren't great (some are considered junk). Concensus was using bored out OEM cylinders is best. I took the Jake Raby package route for this and got a set of bored out cylinders with KB pistons and rings.

For the cam, I went with the webcam #73. Slightly more agressive that stock, but still OK for d-jet. Jake has his own version of this cam that I would probably buy instead if I had it to do over again.

Lifters: If you can get a set of lifters with the cam from Jake, that's what I would recommend. I went with ceramic lifters because I was scared of the rash of lifter problems that were going around at that time. I couldn't take the risk.

Compression. This will depend mostly on your cam. Jake recommended 8:1 with the #73 webcam. I had originally planned for 8.5:1, so I settled on 8.25:1 (don't ask me why).

I think that about covers it. D-jet won't be plug and play. You will have to do some tweaking to get it to run perfectly. There are a variety of ways of doing this. Fuel pressure, or MPS tweaks are the most common. I bought a WB O2 sensor to tune with to make sure I was properly tuning the mixture.

I think that about covers it.

Demick

stock D jet FI
MPS tweek
Jake FI cam
chineese 96 P&Cs
8.5 comp
52cc heads
.095 deck
I should not have sold that one
it pinged on crappy gas but only under very heavy load. dropping teh timing back 1 or 2 deg stopped it though

Oh yeah - I thought I would need mid-grade or premium, but I don't. Runs perfectly on regular. No pinging under any conditions.

Demick

thanks Demick...

That was exactly the information I was looking for

9.5:1 on the motor in my personal car. It needs premium.

9:1
96 mm p&c's
weber carbs
215mm flywheel
.055 deck
1.7 rockers
89 octane

Dan, it seems to me that as long as you are getting GGR "points" for using a non-stock cam, you might as well put in a more agressive unit. of course, this means carbs or aftermarket FI -- but it's more power. you get GGR points for compression at 9:1 in a 2-liter.

i run 9.5:1 compression on pump gas (91), which seems to be a practical limit for the crap that passes as gasoline in our great state.

what demick said is right on. go for oem jugs matched to your new pistons. i also used kb's. one needs to be careful with the clearances on the kb's, but there are no issues if you get it right. jake will know what to do, or i'd be happy to drag out my notes.

Anyone have any idea how much power a more agressive cam and aftermarket FI will free up?

Demick, how much actual tweeking did you have to do with your D-Jet setup?

Hi,
Do you have a WAG as to the power difference between 9.5:1 and 8.5:1???

Rich

i think that all depends on "how aggressive" the cam is -- which will obviously affect your choice of compression, headwork, etc.. but all other things being equal, a lumpier cam with a bit more compression and carbs should be worth at least 5hp -- prolly a few more with well-tuned FI. It'd be fun to dyno demick's and my engine back to back -- there's your answer. still, i think i have a few ponies on demick based on seeing his car run (i also have like 200 less lbs).

n

9:1 ... had it ping on crappy regular once, so i ran premium ...

Andy

I'd guess the lumpier cam and higher compression should be worth more like 10hp. Maybe more as my power still falls off a cliff at 5K rpm.

Demick

5k? oh... my engine cams up at 4k and pulls through 6k, around which i shift.

so yeah, based off the spinning alone, prolly more like 10hp+.

that seems odd ... still running d-jet? i had my rev-limiter set to 6k and the engine always wanted to pull beyond, just never had the nerve to test the limits ...

Andy

Yes, still running d-jet and stock heads, and a very mild cam. So my engine characteristics will be very similar to a stock motor.

That is what I am aiming for...I guess I will try to get an answer from Jake as to how high of compression can be run with D-jet. And which cam can work with that combination.
I really don't want to go to carbs...and am not yet ready to step up to MS.
I wish there were some off the shelf options for induction.

Any other ideas? For those that have gone to mega squirt...what are the drawbacks...pitfalls....

How difficult to tune to car?

megasquirt could lead to some substantial down time while you work out the inevitable bugs... but it would let you run a much more aggressive cam than the Djet. i've kinda been toying with the idea of 'squirting my motor -- i think i could get more power out of it with the ability to fine-tune. i also just like the idea of tuning by laptop.

anyway, any Djet-friendly cam is not going to want much more than 8.5:1 compression, i figure. just curious: why the aversion to carbs?

I guess I am just being a purist about the D-jet....and I really didn't want to play with the jetting etc of the carbs.
The carbs in and of themselves are fine. On my 914-6 with 2.7RS motor I had Weber 40IDFs that had been gone thru by Jerry Woods and in 5 years I never had any problems....Oh well maybe I should consider carbs
Also the person doing the tuning on that car was a Weber guru as well and so I just never even thought about them being a problem.

Anyway I was just trying to build a motor for the car that did not require alot of fiddling every month to keep it running nicely...

I figured that about 8.5/1 would be the max for the D-jet...

Just trying to see what others have done so I can avoid any problems others might have had going to high.

I'm not a big fan of carbs either. Just had lots of problems with them in the past (not on the 914). Always had much better luck with FI. But if I was building a motor for a race car like you Dan, I would want to go more agressive than the d-jet could handle. So I'd probably bite the bullet and go with carbs. At least it would be fairly quick and easy to get them set up and running with the new motor. Then, you can always convert over to an aftermarket FI system later if you find that you really don't like the carbs (at your convienance).

But I definitely wouldn't want to build a new motor and do an aftermarket FI system at the same time. Just too many variables all at the same time since there is no plug and play aftermarket FI system available.

Demick

yes, this is part of my quandry...how aggressive to get with the new motor...

I don't want a grenade so it won't be too aggressive...

I have seen Bill Newlin, years ago, detonate about 1 highly stressed 4 banger per year. Not what I am looking for...
I want a bit more reliable power.
I have had the big horsepower track cars in the past and now I just want something that is reliable, that I won't embarass myself with.
That is why I have been leaning towards a lightly stressed 2056 with FI and mild cam. 8-8.5 compression ratio.
Get in, turn the key, and go

A good cam matched with Carbs/Aftermarket FI should be worth 20-30 hp (or more if you've got a header). The stock D-Jet cam sucks that much.

9to1 compression
96's P&C's KB
Jake 9550 cam with Jake lifters
Djet
HD Valve springs
42x38 valves
52cc chambers
Lightened flywheel

It runs fine on regular although I use mid grade mostly. Does fall on its face at 4500 anymore as it did with the stock cam. The Djet provides good mix control until 6000 rpms which is as far as I push it. I don't see the "Big" advantage of aftermarket FI over Djet as they both measure fuel. I do see aftermarket FI as being easier to tune and maybe being more accurate in the long run. MPS's are getting hard to find and that is the key piece in Djet.

I just finished building a Jake Raby 2056. My heads were flycut befor I sent them to Len Hoffman so they came bach at 50.5CC. My calculations come up with 9.2 /9.4 CR. I had to shim the barrels .057 deck height. that with a 50.5 CC head and no head gasket = 9.4 with a 96MM paston and 71MM stroke. I'm not sure of the real potential yet as the idle jets are too big. I've ordered some 060s when I get it right I'll DYNO and let youall know. Al

I have a Jake 2056, quick specs:

8.8:1 - I do run premium
KB pistons - bored out OEM cyl
Jake split duration cam
44 webers
Dyno'd at 131hp to the crank
been going now for 4+ years with no probs

I can get you some more specs if you need em, but as this motor was built in 02 I am sure Jake has some better tricks out now, so I would talk to him if you are going with his goodies.

Tony