I hope Jake chimes in here.

Is Cryogenics really worth it for our engines?

I read an article stating Jake as the sole reseller of this service and he had it done to his company van,,,which in true form he went out and tried to kill the motor.
I read vlave adjustment at 15k intervals (he did check them every 1k, but no need to adjust????

Opinions and a cost estimate would be great.

Rich

I have had EXCELLENT results with cryo on my engines.....Such good luck that after January of this year ALL MY ENGINES will be getting it as a styandard option!!

So far I'm the only engine builder in this industry that has done this type of R&D with cryogenics...
Cooler running,Super Longevity are the main stronmg points of the Cryo

What parts are treated?

Thats according to the budget of the customer. Atleast the cylinders, pistons and head components...

My cryo guys have developed 31 different profiles of cycling for the TIV engine.

All the engines that have received full cryo have ran cooler and made HP than the non cryo engines I have done.

See www.percryo.com they do my work and are great to deal with

We have had direct experience with cyrogenics in relation to our products and other type 4 engine components that Performance Cryo did for us. With our biral cylinders, the ductile iron became near unmachinable after the cryo process and we ended up destroying lots of tooling before coming to the realization that we had to do all the machining first, then cryo :-) As far as testing results on cryo'ed components, we were having camshaft issues with Shad's 2615 and we ended up cyro'ing both cam and lifters with the last set we put in and over a year and a half later, the cam looks just beautiful and the lifters have excellent wear patterns. As far as cooling is concerned, I had my 2L heads and all related valve componentry cryo'ed, but I have only 500mi on that Nickies engine so far (i also had the ports ceramic coated and the exterior of the heads coated with thermal dispersant). I'll tell you in 15-20k miles how the guides, valves, and seats look. And as far as Nickies are concerned, when cryo'ed, they should cool a tad better (might not be noticable), but it increases the strength of the aluminum quite a bit, just as good as going up to the next heat treat (T9).

Take care,

Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
http://www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance

Any luck on unfreezing Walt Disney?

Got a torch.....

Is there a claim or statement here that cryo increases strength of a material? So before cryo yield of aluminum might be 24ksi after it will be more? Im surprised this isnt a more popular process

Problem is that some people who have limited experience with it, or have never seen what it does think that its snake oil... The differences cannot ben seen or felt, so its hard to sell to some people.

The way I came about it was funny. Here is the story..

In was at the Barber shop and the normal girl that cuts my hair was out for the week......The new girl that was there, I did not know.

A guy came in that sharpens scissors and shears and asked who needed his services. Everyone gave them a set of scissors but the girl cutting my hair.....He asked why she did not need hers sharpened, since it had been 6 months, since he did it last........

She replied "My husband froze them and they stay sharp alot longer now" So, they started talking and I started listening.................Come to find out he is in my little town and does everything from Golf Clubs to rifle barrels and engine/tranny parts.......been using him for 3 years now with great results.

I even have all my tool cutters and machine tool holders treated, they last 3 times as long!

If freezing makes the Nickies impossible to finish, and Jake is freezing his machine tool heads, .....

Would it make the body more stable and less impervious to rust???

I would love to know if that would work, freeze a whole body and make it stronger?????

Rich

I wonder if you could use this process on condoms? Imagine if condoms lasted 3 times longer!

I wish Harry Caray was still alive.


M

I am a skeptic. Im also educated in metallurgy. None of the cryo sites offer before and after data. What is Youngs Modulus before, what is yield strength before?what is Vickers or Rockwell hardness before? what are those values after?

The hardness may change. Youngs Modulus and yield strength dont. If they did I bet every cryo site would be BOASTING about it...

like

Diversified Cryogenics

or

the one posted

They mention phase shifts from austentite to martensite.. cool talk for what happens to every ferrous metal when it cools.. aluminum...... nope doesnt happen to aluminum.

Ive used frozen rotors before. There was not any great improvent over the performance or longevity of the regular rotors..

But hey if it blows your skirt up to have cryo parts go for it.... Its your money

I'm by far a metallurgist, but I build a few engines EXACTLY the same. The cryoed engines have made some impressive numbers on the dyno compared to their non cryoed counterparts....

After you try to machine treated parts you will see the differences.

Keep this in mind:
I make NOT ONE CENT off the process, nothing. It takes 203 weeks extra for parts to get cycled and adds more BS to my job if a customer wants it. In short, it does nothing to my pocket book and costs me time.


I feel that it has its merits to the point of taking a slight loss to improve my product. If I had a SINGLE doubt about it, I'd never touch it.

FYI, that engine in the article now has 45000 miles on it....I have had to adjust TWO valves in 45000 miles, thats it! All the rest stay spot on every time I check....

A friend of mine races Go Karts professionally. He increased his entire engine lifespan by 2 full races over the non cryoed engines, and has not had a single engine failure in 2 years (in the past he blew 2 engines/year) his class is limited and they will tear you down in a heartbeat.........we swear by the stuff.