I recently had a problem where the car would not start. I isolated it to the starter switch which as when I shorted the relevant wires out at the starter switch the starter would engage and the car swould start. I've now replaced that electrical part at the end of the starter switch mechanism but it has made no difference. If I take the electrical bit out and start it with a screwdriver it starts no problem. It appears that the key does not turn enough to engage the starter. Has anyone else come across this? I can't see anyway to take the tumbler and whole mechanism apart, so am I screwed??? do I have to buy the whole switch/lock/tumbler mechanism or am I barking up the worng tree

Look up the tech article on the pelicanparts.com site. Pics and description of the replacement. I've been through a couple of the plastic pieces. It's a common failure and fairly easy fix.

-pt

Thanks for your response but as I said in my post I've already replaced the plastic part and still no go

Perhaps it is not the plastic part. Did you check the part of the keyed mechanism that engauges the switch parts in the plastic part? It may not be in good repair.

What year of 914?

I had the same problem on my 75. Starting Problem. It was not the plastic/electric switch.

I replaced the whole ignition switch assembly, because I could not figure out how to get the assembly apart. By assembly I mean, lock tumbler, and part that goes around the steering column. It seems to have worked.

The tumbler part of the assembly is NLA I think so. I bought mine here from someone who was parting out their car.

I am pretty sure Dave Darling has written how to remove the lock tumbler from an earlier year. It looked pretty easy IIRC. Follow the tech article to remove the assembly then turn the key and pull it out.

It is NOT the plastic part! I have replaced it with a new one. As far as I can make out the part of the keyed mechanism that engages the switch is in good order.

It could also be the wires that attach to the switch. I had to take the holder apart and clean the wire clip ends and reinstole them into the holder before mine would work.

Same thing, switch attached to wires, turn with screw driver it worked. Put it all together, no work. Clean wires, reassembly, works.

While its apart, lube the lock assembley with dry graphite and you should good for another 30 yrs.

On my dad's car we went through a couple plastic pieces b/c the other pieces around it (not sure what they're called) - basically replaced the whole housing (tumbler wasn't much of a stopper - fairly easy to use your old one). You can prob get the whole setup from anyone of the guys parting their cars out. Prob can be had for about $25 or so...

It does get frustrating but that is what separates us 914 owners from the Boxter owners (That and about $30K)...

I can see the problem The part of the lock mechanism that engages the electrical switch is twisted ever so slightly. Which means that it doesn't turn the electrical switch as far as it should. I've got an idea for a bodge which should sort it for the medium term. Basically file the bits that stop the mechanism turning at the limits, so that it has at least a few more degrees at full lock. If that doesn't work I'll get a secondhand lock/tumbler mechanism (but parts ain't easy to come by over here )

Thanks for your help guys.

Did I not say as much in my post? --> "...Did you check the part of the keyed mechanism that engauges the switch parts in the plastic part? "

No need to yell at me.

Sorry Dr Evil but when I state in my first post I have replaced the plastic part,

then the next post says 'perhaps you should replace the plastic part'

then I again state 'I have replaced the plastic part'

then you come along and state 'maybe it is not the plastic part' it's a case of NO SHIT EINSTEIN

I took on board you're comment of looking at the state of the mechanism but at first glance there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with it... it took a good 10min stare at it to notice the slight twist (and I mean slight). If you said 'check out the mechanism for any twist' I would have been on it straight away, but I was looking for something obvious e.g. cracking, breaks etc. But thanks for you help anyway

I have had this exact problem. I just corrected the problem on my car a couple of days ago.

Moggy - You are exactly right on with what I found. I bought and tried 2 new replacement switches and both exhibited the same problem. The replacement switches just do not seem to turn far enough to make the needed electrical contact to engage the starter. I went through most of the starting system before I finally norrowed the problem down to the white electrical switch not working. I used a multimeter to determine how the switch was working. I disassembled a couple of old switches that had cracks in the housing to see how they work. After understanding how the switch should work I took aprat the new switch and made a couple of modifications to get the new switch to work. I put the white switch back in the car and it now works fine.

The modifications that I performed were to bend the internal "Y" shaped contact terminal to create earlier engagement of the contact. I also replaced the internal rotating disc white plastic part with the part from one of my older switches. THe older disc has less slop in the receiver end that the tumbler spline enters into that forces the rotation.

This was quite a painstaking endeavor to diagnose and correct the problem by reworking the switch. We need to identify the "bad" switch manufacturer and also determine if there is a replacement switch that works properly.

Here is a pic of most of the internals of the white switch.

Usually the switch goes bad but seeing as how you have replaced that, then it is probably a defective replacement switch, or the key tumbler is not able to rotate completely. We may have to send you some replacement tumblers. The little slides become worn and sometimes have burrs, or you may find broken bits inside that prevent proper operation. I know I have rekeyed a bunch of locks, but don't recall specifically if I have done ignition tumblers.

Do the switches have manufacturer markings? What year is it?
Doug, I hope we will not be plagued with bad replacement switches.

Ack.. I'm going to tackle this same thing on Saturday. I have the new white electrical part. However, I can start the car now by turning the key to START while sticking my finger up the access hole under the column and pushing the wiring harness one direction. I figure its the white switch or the wiring... I'll let you know!

Jason - That is exactly what I had to do to get my car started before I rebuilt the switch. A slight push on the connector and the starter would engage. I initially thought that it was going to be a wire connection issue but it wasn't the wiring. It was the white switch.

I suggest performing a bench top test on the key/tumbler assembly with the white switch installed to check that it functions properly. All that you need is an Ohm meter. I hooked up the leads from my multimeter to the terminals on the white ignition switch that are used for the large center red wire and the terminal for the yellow wire. When the key is turned to the start position the Ohm meter should show continuity between the 2 terminals. If you have continuity, you're good to go. No continuity means that it will not engage the starter.


Last night I found a older white switch that I had in my parts stash. I hooked it up to a spare key/tumbler assembly to determine if it would work properly. I tested it using the Ohm meter. The old switch worked as it should. I removed the old white switch and installed the extra new white switch that I had into the key/tumbler assembly and the new switch did not work -no continuity between the red and yellow terminals. Then I removed the new white switch, turned it with a screwdriver and was able to get continuity.

There is no manufacturer information on the new white switch that I can find. My experience and Moggy's experience is telling me that there is a batch of bad parts out there ( who knows what qty) or this particular brand of switch will not work in our application.

Doug,

Thanks for the info and explanation. I bought mine from Pelican. Seems they had two flavors (manufacturers). I bought the VAG one. Just got it yesterday. I will do the bench test as you recommend.

Hate to take a chance since one needs to remove the lower dash/column parts etc to get to this thing...

Oh OH I know, This is a no shit Here is what ya do.
I had this problem whenI converted early to late. Seems the late tumbler piece was worn a bit and would not turn the plastic piece far enough.
What I did is took a dremel to the tang on the tumbler assy. it is what stops rotation. took a few thousandths off and whala now turns far enough to engage contacts. SIMPLE.

Warning there is poetential for you to become a future DAPO if you screw it up.

[quote name='Doug Leggins' date='Jul 13 2006, 08:18 AM' post='726762']
[quote name='AZ914' post='726731' date='Jul 13 2006, 11:43 AM']


...There is no manufacturer information on the new white switch that I can find. My experience and Moggy's experience is telling me that there is a batch of bad parts out there ( who knows what qty) or this particular brand of switch will not work in our application.
[/quote]

I was/am having the same issues. I found a NOS white plastic replacement switch at a local Import parts house that is at least 10+ years old (the part number label on it had faded to blank!) Same deal, it works with a screwdriver, but not with the mechanical switch part connected.

My 'fix' involved building up the tumbler assembly metal tab that fits into the white plastic switch. On mine you could actually see where the tab was shiny and worn down a few thousandths. I wrapped a single layer of thin mylar duct tape around the tab (just the part that inserts into the white plastic switch). While I had it all apart, I noticed that the tumbler assembly was somewhat sloppy in the steering lock housing, so I put two thin strips of the same mylar on the tumbler assembly. There was similar slop between the white plastic switch and the steering lock housing, so I put some thin strips of electrical tape on the white plastic switch. The key now engages the starter everytime (knock on wood).

It'll hold me over untill I find a NOS or nice used tumbler/key switch. BTW, does anybody know if the VW tumbler/key switch assemblies (except for the tumblers) from the same period are the same/similar?

I also thought about dipping the end of the tab in that 'plasti-dip' stuff to build it up, but didn't get around to trying it.

I talked to Brad Mayeur, and he told me he can set one of his better used tumbler/key switch assemblies to your (good) existing key.

BINGO Thats exactly what I did. Now works a treat.

Nanner Nanner nanner. I win. Fixed another one. Glad it worked for you.

HELP!

Got the whell/dash apart and noticed that my 'late' (75) tumbler etc is different from those pictured in the Pelican how to article..

Anyways, the old white plastic part came out when I pulled on the plug from the back. The part looked good, no cracks. But since I have a new one, I plugged in the the new white plastic switch, inserted it from the rear until it seated in, tried to start... and had the same problem, no starty.

So I tried the screwdriver test on the old and new switches, both will start the car. So it seems that my tumbler piece is not turning far enough to engage the starter. BUT, I cannot get the tumbler portion out of my dash. The 75 piece is different from the early pieces and I can't seem to just turn the key and pull. Something is holding it in but I see no set screw or anything. Any ideas how I can get that thing out?

Thanks!

There is a spring clip holding the key tumbler in th housing. and a paper clip is enough to depress it. and a itty bitty set dcrew holding the plastic contact part in the housing.

giving up slowly...

I see the spring clip in the little slot. I've deressed it and I'm able to pull the tumbler out about 2 millimeters.. thats it. I don't see a set screw anywhere.. do you mean on the white electrical part or somwhere else?

Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentHere are a couple of pics of my ignition. I can stick a small screwdriver in the slot (marked with the arrow) to depress the spring clip.. I can pull it out a smidge but thats it. I can see that the clip is depressed when I do this.

What gives?

Ok, I found an earlier post with info on my 75 ignition column assembly. Seems that I have to pull the whole thing off.

This was a pic from that post:

I've pulled mine off. There is talk of a set screw. I'm not sure if this is to hold the white plastic part or the tumbler part itself. The white plastic part just unplugged. Here is a pic of the back of my assembly. Any tricks to this besides the spring clip I mentioned earlier?

Ok, well, I figured out that hole is for the set screw that goes thru the white electric switch so thats not my problem

?

I got it out!! Sorry for all the posts.. I was panicing.

Ok, now to ground this down a bit to let the starter engage....

Ok, so get this..

I appear to have a bit of the 'twist' in the mechanism that turns the switch. So I did like Moggy etc and ground down one of the tangs so I'd get more rotation.. maybe only a few hundreths.

Now.. if I take the tumber and stick it in the switch (outside of the entire column housing), I can turn and start the car. However, if I plug the tumbler in the housing and the connect the white switch in the back, I can't get the starter to engage.

Do I need to ground more off or is there something else I'm overlooking in regards to the housing??

Thanks for any help!

What tangs are you guys grinding down? I have this same problem and ended up putting in a push button. Yea I know, but at least she'll start.

???

Regarding the tangs.. when you turn the key, part of the tumbler rotates and hits a 'tang' I guess you call it. There is one to keep the key from being turned backwards as well. Anyways, I took a little off of the one that stops the rotation during 'start'.

Strange that if I just plug the tumbler into the white plastic switch while holding both in my hand, I can start the car.. put it back in the housing and no go.. trying to figure out why.

How did you wire your push button?

I grinded half of my one off. Now it works great.

I suspect you need to grind off more. or the set screw that holds the white plastic part in is not doing it's job very well.
Keep at it. your close. I thought the push button was a PITA when a DAPO put one in an old bug of mine.

Thanks guys.. I'll keep grinding. Actually, I don't have a grinder, I've been filing.. ugh. Maybe a trip to the hardware store for a dremel is in order.

Regarding the set screw.. there wasn't one. It seems that the switch fits in tight but I should probably find something to stick in there anyways.

Yup, I don't like the push button either, but I do like my car starting. I spliced the switch between the black wire leaving the switch and the yellow wire. This way the button only works when it's switched on. I mounted the switch under the dash so I didn't have to drill a hole in the dash. To remove it I just have to pull two splices and the button and you'll never know it was there.

Now I have to tear into this again to see these tangs. I'd love to remove the button.

BK911,
I'll snap a pic of the tangs and my twisted switch when I get home tonight.

I'd love to see a pic of the tangs. I am not sure what you are grinding off to get more rotation.

Strange that if I just plug the tumbler into the white plastic switch while holding both in my hand, I can start the car.. put it back in the housing and no go.. trying to figure out why. ---When the tumbler and switch are out of the housing you are able to insert the tumbler further into the switch. THe hosing will only allow for a given amount of insertion of the tumbler into the switch receptacle. The additional insertion causes more pressure to be applied to the internal parts of the switch which results in earlier contact.

Doug.. thanks for the explanation.. I thought I was going nuts.
I didn't get the picture last night, too busy running around town and didn't get to work on the car. I'll do my best to get it tonight.

Here is a pic of my tumber.


The RED arrow points to one of the TANGs.. not the one I'm grinding but the stop position tang.

The BLUE arrow points to my TWISTED end that fits into the white plug.

Thats virtually a photocopy of what mine looks like regarding the twist. Don't bother trying to twist it back.... I did this but within a few days it had resorted back to it's previously twisted position. I ended up grinding half of the tang off to get the rotation. The proper fix is to buy a new tumbler mechanism... but I'm cheap I'll leave it, now that it works, until the problem rears it's head again then I'll buy a new tumbler mechanism.