ok, we pushed the car and it started right up.

Couple of questions.

How long does vapor lock typically take to happen on a drive

Does the starter use one of those round relays that I can swap out and see if that's the problem. It doesn't sound like the key is triggering the solenoid at all.

Thanks.

No relay. Some people add aftermarket relays.

Vapor lock only causes a fuel delivery problem and won't affect cranking.

I understand that, but it died before developing the no-crank situation. Just wondering if it could have been a vapor lock that initially made it die out.

DRATS!! on the no relay for the starter thing.

Gotcha. Don't you love it when there's more than one problem at a time?

I had a no-crank problem and it was a cracked ignition switch. I don't know if your car has the seatbelt relay junk under the passenger seat... if so that's a place where a bad connection can cause trouble. I tossed all of mine and just joined the solenoid (big yellow) wire and the brown-only grounds there.

You're already on track with checking grounds and battery connections.

Might be a good time to upgrade to one of those high-torque starters if the other things don't fix it.

Hey Helo,
I'd recommend keeping to one topic. It makes it easier to keep track of what's going on for the particular situation (no start in your case). Also, just because you aren't getting help from others doesn't mean they're not reading what's going on

That's typically obvious by the 180 views and 5 replies.

How to test the starting circuit:

Power to the yellow wire at the solenoid? If not, it's the ignition switch.

Try tapping on the solenoid with a wrench. If this fixes it, the solenoid is worn out, and needs to be rebuilt/replaced.

Try tapping on the starter motor with a wrench. If this gets it cranking again, the motor is worn out, and needs to be rebuilt/replaced.

Is it really hot out? Wait a couple of hours, and try again. If this works, the starter is tired, and needs to be rebuilt or replaced.

If it's the ignition switch, does anything happen when you turn the key to on? (Alt light come on?) If not, check the red wire to the ignition switch from the junction near the fusebox (lots of big red wires joined together). If there's no power there, your battery is disconnected or dead.

If turning the key on makes the usual stuff work, but there's no cranking and no power at the yellow wire, then you need to replace the plastic part of the ignition switch assembly. It's not easy to get to, but the part's fairly cheap (under $20), and you don't have to replace the key.

thanks for the wire help... I'll take a look at that.

Robert: James is right on with the starter. On the vapor lock, where is your fuel pump located?
:PERMAGRIN: Joe

Fuel pump is still in the stock location near the right rear wheel area

Have you checked the ground strap over the tranny?
:PERMAGRIN: Joe

Nope, how do I get to it? roughly...

Vapor lock will usually occur after the car is hot, say after driving some distance,(usually on a very hot day), and then maybe the car is either stopped at a traffic light and the engine is idling, or maybe the car is turned off and then you try to start it after a short time. What happens is that the fuel is not running through the fuel pump fast enough to keep it cool, and then the fuel vaporizes, and the pump can not pump vapor. After everything cools down enough, the gas vapor condenses back into liquid, and the pump works again. This happens most on the stock fuel pump location because it is under the engine shelf where heat collects. Joe O.

Thanks Joe, that's awesome. That really hits home with what I'm experiencing. I've driven it locally several times with no issues. About a mile or so. This trip to work this morning was it's first "long" trip.

As for the starter, I think there is a relay added to it. On a STOCK starter, there's a solenoid ON the starter and that's it, right? Mine has the starter, with the thing on the starter, then on the sheetmetal to the left of the starter is another thing. I assumed that was the solenoid but after looking at this paperwork in the folder from the car, I believe it's a relay.

I'm going to do a search on relocating the fuel pump and try that out to see if it clears up the problem.

Thanks again for the info.

Robert

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&a...st&p=736336