Has anybody ever compared the 914V8 to a Cobra on the track or drag strip?Anybody ever raced one?Which car is the better handling car?Horsepower to wt. ratio?

I believe your question is too broad, to many variables to answer without refining your question.

However if things are similar: setup, power, weight, contact patch, I believe the teener has an edge all around and especially on the track. The teener has allot going for it, mid engine, unibody versus body on frame, a near perfect weight balance versus front biased cobra.

I would venture to say that on a twisty technical track a highly tuned flat six teener versus a "big block" cobra, I would give the nod to the six as it would be able to carry much higher corner speeds.

Look at the current F1 cars, now all are V8 versus last years V10 and are 200hp down from the V10. This year the cars are turning faster laps at all tracks, why? Besides better aerodynamics they can carry higher corner speeds due to less mass.

there was a Cobra at one of the ORPCA AX's. It spun out quite a bit (180's) and couldn't even dream of keeping up with even a 4. They are for going straight & wide turns.
.......I think

.....b

Bad analogy.

The cars weigh the same, there's a minimum weight that didn't change with the smaller engines, so they aren't cornering faster due to less mass. The lap times they're turing are no generally faster, and certainly not faster at all tracks. About the same as last year, yes. The 200hp number has been rumored, but hardly verified. The cars are certainly revving higher, and may make similar power to last year, just less torque because of the smaller engine size.

The teams say the lack of speed difference is mostly down to tires. Clearly, they couldn't make effective use of the power they had last year, so reducing it hasn't hurt much. This is why the FIA has now turned to a spec tire for next year, which is pretty much the only way to really reduce laptimes.

As for the original question, it's pretty close to impossible to answer. Tires would make a huge difference. A 427 Cobra probably can't use its tires very effectively, and in a roadrace on a tight course probably wouldn't be all that much faster than a 289 Cobra with the same tires. On a course with lots of slow turns and long straights, the 914 would be killed by either one.

Lots of variables here especially since not all V8's are created equal. Cobras are not known for their ease of handling and they tend to get light in rear end which isnt a good thing when you are trying to put down power coming out of a corner. Sometime do a search for Cobra on track video - you will see what a bear these cars can be.

Assuming that a V8 914 had proper suspension and brakes it should have signficant advantage over a Cobra on track.

914 would kill a Cobra, the 914 won the IMSA championship against the Vettes, Javilin's, Mustangs all of the cars of that era. And that was with a small 6 in it! The cobra was fast in a straight line but so is a 450hp 914.

The one time when I was on the track with (2) original Cobras (with dinged up aluminum bodies), there was no comparison between our track car (3.2 914-6 with flares and 9"x16" wheels).

It was truely a letdown. Those cars were pathetic in braking and handling compared to a 914 track car. The fact that they had a lot of power really never played into the equation as the poor braking and poor handling put them at a SERIOUS disadvantage.

My encounter with them was at a very large track (Road America) and it still didn't make a difference.

To be fair, they were set up for vintage racing and had to obey the rules of the class that they were running, and I was free to run whatever I brung, but still, I expected more from those legendary cars.....

just my $0.02

I ended up behind a cobra kit car at an AX. We were at Irwindale speedway and were running continuous laps during out practice session, no stopping, just go until the session was over. i was in my V8 914.

He was sent out about 10 seconds ahead of me, I was filling up his rear view mirror by the second lap. On the 3rd lap he must have been paying too much attention to me because he did a very impressive spin.
IIRC, he had independent rear suspension, no live axle.
Granted that was just on a 1 mile course layed out in a parking lot so it does not represent what would happen on a real track, but I think I could have taken him there too.

No telling how well the car was set up suspensionwise, or how skilled the driver was. Basivcally it was meaningless

I have driven a factory 427 side oiler on a track years ago and it was scarey fast.
Until the first Porsche Twin Turbo it held the record to 0-100-0. That was for years! My 914-6 3.6 handles much better than the Cobra as I remember, but I am not sure about the braking and my car has Twin Turbo Big Reds.

Dan

Bingo!

Andys

I don't have real cobra..but a replica with a healthy small block (no track time in it either). It is not an autocross car. On a track, compared to a '90 C2, I (novice) would say I'd be faster in my C2, except in the straight.

I would think the originals are a hand full to drive, but if you're experienced in how to drive it well and weren't a chicken (like me), it would be interesting. I was on the track at sears point behind a superperformance cobra, and it was fast!

On the otherhand, $70k+ in a 914 V8 would be race and I'd like to see.

Al's got pictures somewhere of a 356 passing a cobra through a corner. Said it never caught up.

Driver is a big variable. Doesn't matter how much cash you put in. There's a guy out here that races a factory racer spec F430, and he gets passed by mustangs.I think Lectric Leopards are faster than mustangs.

An autocross might not be the best venue for an original 289 Cobra, but at 271HP and 1960 lbs. (7.25lbs/HP), it would certainly be a match for any V8 914 hybrid on the street or road course. I was "there" and can report firsthand that the only cars that could even come close on the shorter road courses "back in the day" were the 904s, and then only if the course in question didn't have any really long straightaways. The other A Production cars of the day, the newest Corvettes, might as well have stayed on the trailer. The Cap'n

ive had a slick shod replica pull away from me (on r-compounds) over the course of a few laps... he had me by a sec a lap roughly.

Very good driver (better than me at least ) well sorted car w/ a 572 CI BBF under the hood. (I had 450ish HP)

BJH

Ok let me be more specific.let's say limit the comparison to 300 hp for the cobra small block vs 914 300 hp small block chevy.500 hp cobra big block vs 500 hp 914 small block chevy.With suspension and brakes of equal capeability.

down to the driver really....

Only took Moby to the track once, LA Shelby Club event at Willow. Didn't have any problems with them, but those damn little SVT Foci cleaned my clock.

The biggest problem is the original Cobra , the 289 (actually, the first few cars had a 260), is the product of late 1950s/early 1960s technology, and the cars you're talking about are using any technology available at the time of their construction/modification. You could buy a brand new 289 Cobra for 5 thousand bucks and drive it home. Install the available roll bar that you bought at the dealer parts counter, tape over the headlights with adhesive tape, and drive it to the track. If you were driver enough, you'd be competitive. I know people with more money in their brakes than the Cobra cost new! Same for gearboxes, engines, and required track equipment. The later models, with the big engine, the swollen body work, and all the racing gear, were relative pigs. Replicars, in some cases, have incorporated modern technology and are better cars. Many are most definitely NOT. You just can't compare a production car, one which was raced in close-to-stock form, with the V8 914 setup for the track. A more even comparison would be the original Cobra vs. the CGT. There's where you really see what 40 years of automotive development is like. It also shows you the price disparity. The CGT is nearly 1000 times more expensive. Even allowing for inflation, that's a HUGE jump. Any kid with a good job in 1965 could buy a Cobra. It was about the same price as a 911, and $2k less than a race version of the 904 ($4k less than the street version). The Cap'n

assuming equal drivers.

with a lower HP engine, maybe the 914.

with a high HP engine, i'm thinking the Cobra....cause many (not all) 914s are not built up enough for high HP.

my .02

Pros or weekend warriors?

Setups? Track?.....too many variables....

Name a track....then do the bench racing....

Well.. Are they equal in buying price? Equal in parts put into it?


A 60k cobra with lots of $$ in suspension and brakes can put a 5k v8 with stock suspension to shame... Same thing vice versa.

The replica cobra's on mustang chassis are not bad handlers, but I would say the 914 v8 with stock (ish.. there are some things that are manditory for a v8..) suspension would out handle the cobra..

Keep in mind the cobra has the engine in the front, the 914 has it in the middle... Better weight distribution..

I think thats the final factor for equally prepped cars... the 914 will out handle the cobra due to weight distribution.

Indy, F1, etc have not used front mounted engines in a long time, Why? Because

the handling in a mid mounted is superior. Correct me if I am wrong. If we

were talking a straight line that would be one thing but at the end of the

straights are corners. Are all of these great racecar builders wrong? The Cobra in its

day was a bad mofo but that was then and this is now.

One of those questions you can't really answer


I have never seen a well prepared cobra. All I ever see them do is spin around. Definetly feel one of the more modern kit cars could be made to compete with a 914. I don't feel an original could without completely reworking the suspension.



I think the better question is which one do people with more track experience tend to lean toward driving and why?

Funny we are comparing a 40 year old car to a thirty year old car and talking about how outdated the cobra is HAHA
I have only had my 914 a little while and I really am impressed with the engineering of it. Been checking out alot of panteras and those are even better. The suspension on those is a work of art. Pretty impressive what happened to automotive engineering in only 10 years I would say.

Clearly the winer would be the one that didn't hit anything

I have always liked the cobra and have spent alot of time researching the various kits. I think Factory Five Racings product would be very competitive. Below is the Car & Driver test data for the spec racer model. Check that skidpad number.



Engine

Configuration 8 cylinder iron block

Stock Mustang 87-93

Displacement 302 CID

Compression ratio 9:1

Induction Multi-Port fuel injection

Max Horsepower 225 hp. (stock)

Max Torque 305 ft.lb.

Max Engine Speed 6250 rpm





Drivetrain

Transmission Borg Warner T5 5 Speed

Rear Differential Gear 2:73 : 1

Clutch Stock Mustang 10.5”

Bell-housing Lakewood Scattershield





Suspension

Front Suspension Independent un-equal length
Upper and lower a-arms

Rear Suspension Solid live axle, 4-link**

Shocks-Springs 4 corner aluminum coil-over
w/ ride height adjustment

Steering Manual rack and pinion

Brakes 11” front discs and 10.5” rear disc brakes or 10” rear drums.

Wheels 17” x 9”, 5-spoke wheels

Tires Kumho VictoRacer V700

Dimensions and Weights

Minimum Weight 2450 lbs. (incl. Driver)

Weight Distribution 46/54% (front/rear)

Wheelbase 90 in.

Overall Length 13’6”

Track (front/rear) 56.0/58.5 in.

Overall Height 46.5 in.

Overall Width 72 in.

Ground Clearance 4.0 in.


Construction

Layout Front engine RWD

Frame Tubular space frame

Roll Cage 6-point cage, integral to frame

Sub-structure Aluminum chassis panel, bonded and riveted to frame.

Body Hand-laid vinylester resin composite shell with 3/16” laminate.



Performance

Acceleration

0-60 mph 4.80 sec*

0-100 mph 13.9 sec*

0-120 mph 27.9 sec*

Standing ¼ mi. 13.6 sec @ 99 mph*

Roadholding (lat G) 1.01 g*

Braking, 70-0 mph 181 ft.*

Best ¼ Mile 12.85 sec*

Top Speed (est.) 145 mph


* Performance data is by Car & Driver Magazine, November 2000 issue.

** Car tested with 4-link suspension. Current kit includes 3-link suspension standard


I think it comes down to three things: Track, gearing, and driver ability.

I autocrossed against 289 & 427 Cobra Kit cars and I beat them every time without much trouble in my LS6 powered 914. A couple of these cars had so much HP that they couldn't harness it on the AX course! They would do better on a larger roadcourse...but would still lose most matches against a properly prepared V-8 914. I know that you can get a school bus to handle if you put enough "brainmanship" and money into it...so I believe you could actually get a Cobra to handle pretty well. With that said, if you put an equal amount of determination and money into a 914....you'll have a superior roadracing package. There's no amount of money & determination that will cure a front mounted engine against a mid mounted configuration. I just ran numerous 12.10s at the drag strip last weekend in 97 degree heat & humidity on slippery VHT and had burned out Pilot Sports. On a more grippy surface in cooler temps...I have no doubt that my car is at least a "high 11 sec car". I would like to race one with similar HP (500HP) and see what happens. I'm pretty sure the 800 HP Cobras would teach me a lesson in a straight line...But I'd be looking for the first sweeper.

Bill

beware of factory five cobras.
They are the k-mart of cobra kits. Cheeep, but it shows.
The cobra community looks down on FFR, most won't even talk to you iffn you have one. Now superformance, that's a nice kit.

(second hand news) Elmers "ultimate" V8 914 did very well angainst most everything except the Superformance at ThunderHil. Then again his 700hp car is only recently finishing races after the gobs of $$$ "development". (enough to have bought the newest Ferrari or Lambo)

Not a good comparison without knowing how much $ was spent on each car...

Interesting debate. Why not take the tube frame Ultimate 914 and put it up against Pete Brocks Cobra Daytona coupe? With Jerry Grant driving the cobra. Say at MidAmerica or LagunaSeca? Please remember the cobra legend was established in the early sixtes. Kind of like comparing a 1957 Ferrari Testa Rossa to a 1999 Corvette ZO6. I will pose the debate to Mr Brock next weekend. Lar

How about comparing a V-8 914 to something more equal, a 60's era mid-engine GT-40, take your pick 255 Indy 4 camer, 289, 302 or 427.

To me, 914 conversions, with 3-4 conversion companies, is kind of where cobra replicas were 25 years ago - limited options really, some components have to be pieced together, not an engineered solution, some nice cars out there, no doubt, but they're one offs.

Cobras were like that until the late 80's. now they're designed from the ground up -custom frames or space frames. custom suspensions, pick your engine.
A car built for 70k is going to woop on 10-15k in a many conversions.

But 914/4 will probably woop my cobra in an autocross. actually, it has a slight rear weight bias, but not a car set up to autocross. Must be the old school 265's BF goodrich's up front.

Here at the Summit Race Track, the fastest track time was made by a F1 car. The second fastest track time and this is like a ferw seconds slower was a Ford Mustang. When will we have a Teener Kill this record locally?

I will not stand for this!@!@!!

A ford mustang was only a few seconds slower than an F-1 car?
Wow, Bizarre.

I love F-1 and absolutely hate mustangs (and anything else from the ford factory) with a passion, so that really strikes a nerve.

EDIT: nothing personal to ford owners, I just had three fords in my life and they were all total POS. I swore I'd never drive or own one ever again.

I feel you bro. I just went to their web page and they had changed it since last time I was there and could not find the exact lap times like before.


FORD, freekin okay running dumper