Okay ran again today, much better, I am now .03 seconds with in the next guy. And less than a second behind the top dog Miata.

But I am still feeling the tire loosing traction coming out of corners still. I know the car still has more left in to it. I need the traction!!!!!!!

Increasing rear camber is the suggestion I got today from a buddy. I am currently running 2" of rear camber - I can get quite a bit more out of it. Will that help?????

Whats your setup? What size front bar are you running and is your current front bar adjusted to max firmness? What kind of tires are you using? Different tires require differing amounts of camber from my expereince.

Okay setup current.

19 mm front torsion bars, 21mm front bar adjusted max firmness.
1/4" toe front caster 6 degree, camber 1.75 degree, max I could get on drivers side. Passenger-side set to match.

Rear 0 degree toe thinking of adding a little in, just because I know it pushes out. But I don't mind the handling right now so I might just leave it. 175 lbs linear springs (changed from 140lbs springs). 16mm rear anti roll bar. Camber now set to 2 degrees rear. 38 psi front

I run an older set of Kumho Victoracers 205/50-R15s on a set of 6.5" Minilights spaced out .25" to keep them from rubbing. on the inner fender area. My passenger-side is tight, so I had to roll the fender lip on that side. My drivers side I can run a 7" wheel, and have 1/4" clearance all around. 36 psi rear. But back to issue.

Car handles great right now except the lose of traction issue. I am hoping for some pictures from this event just so I can see what the car is doing. and compare it with what the car was doing.

Car has not been corner balanced so that could be an issue since I only noticed it coming out of a right hand sweeper onto a fairly long section. Other than that it is great!!! Love the handling. I can toss it has a slight tendency to over-steer, no pushing what so ever. The over-steer only bit me once, another sweeper but this was a left hander, I was a little hot.

Best parts is I dropped my lap times each run, and only got better as the day went on.

Hope that helps with the diagnostics.

I had similar setup as you, but without rear swaybar on my 1.8 powered AX car and it was balanced - did ocassionally push with anything less than Hoosiers. That rear bar may be inducing a bit too much oversteer now that you have stepped up to 175lb springs. You could go for bigger front bar or try disconnecting the rear bar. If you have koni's you could try going full soft in rear and full hard in front too. You are running high pressures in your Victoracers, have you tried bring them down to lower pressures - say 30-32 psi? I run 27-29 psi in my big fat Victoracers with good results. Also do yourself a favor move to Kuhmo 710's or Hoosiers they are much better for AX and sometimes change handling of the car. Victoracers are a great wearing tire for track, but they do have tough time sticking well in AX based on my limited expereince with them. My 914-6 conversion with 22 mm front bar, 19mm torsion bars and 200 lb springs with no rear swaybar is balanced with slight tendency to oversteer. ...And I have 265/45/16 Victoracers rear with 225/50/16 fronts! Take a look at my car in the Redwood Region AX - I posted a video there.

grant, unless you had a 911 front end, you didnt have 19mm torsion bars...

you had 17mm bars (stock 914)

Oh missed that one! OK similar setup with stock 18mm torsion bars. I have 19mm now.

Rear Sway bars cause exactly your symptom.
Just disconnect one side and run your next event. Report back with your results.

Okay I went with my gut and some consultation form Jon Lowe, who always ran a rear bar, and another 914 racer I setup a J-class car for. Here is what I found, according to Jon, if your rear wheel lifts your not smooth enough! His words not mine. So I go to the auto-x this Saturday night, take a look at it, it is one big oval running to the right all right handers, I think perfect. What a place to test all high speed right handers. A Corvette guy must have laid this one out. Okay it was a 28 second course if you had a shifter cart. The 2 salmons at the end where just there to try and slow you down the gates where widely spaced the 914 just flat out hauled through them.

First 3 runs with out the bar, a little push, really did not like it, but did not have time to take a little out of the front bar. Last three runs with with the bar back on. Yes I was tail happy, but I kicked but. First 3 runs I ran a 38 - and got down to 37.4s, the las three where 37.1s to 36.001. My last run was faster until I blew a shift coming through the last salmon. I still ran a 36.4 coasting across the line!!

I am keeping the rear bar and going with Brad! Increasing the front swaybar rate. So Got a call into Coleman for one of them big Nascar Bars, The Welt is going up for sale soon. BTW, when I was smooth I did not lift, if I got a little aggressive, I would lift. BTW, I got third, and kicked a bunch of high HP cars off the track, lost to a tail-dragger by .12 of a second. Not bad being half his HP. And very similar suspension setups.

Great night, had fun thats the important part. Will be picking up a new bar, looking at the shifter, and some new Kumho's for the next event. I should be able to shave another second or two off, I hope.

You will continue to have wheelspin issues untill you either remove the rear bar (and change the rest of the suspension accordingly), or add a limited slip (and change the suspension yada yada yada...).

A rear bar with stiff coil springs will cause the inside rear wheel to unweight, and then it will spin. Especially in an autox environment, where you have very rapid transitions and very high momentary lateral loading.

Stiffer rear springs instead of the rear bar, and you'll probably notice even better handling than before.

Adding a little bit of rear toe in will help controll the throttle oversteer.

Road race setups and autox setups are not always the same, and what works for one, may not be optimal for the other...

-Josh2

I agree with Josh.
if you like the handling that is fine... but you will continue to have traction problems exiting tight corners with the rear bar.

you can change everything else to get the same handling or you can live with the traction problem.

brant

I dont get it?

Why not take care of the actual problem? The problem is: the car is rolling too much in the corners for his driving style.

Step up on the front torsion bars or go with a larger front bar.

Is it that difficult to figure out?

Flip the rear bar over upside down from stock and it wont hit the trunk floor...

word....

flip the bar so the arms are curved up....

Only if bottoming out the bar is what is causing the wheelspin.

I agree, stiffer front suspension (torsions and sway) will help control the roll of the chassis. But the rear bar will still be coupling the inbaord and outbaord suspension movements. With stiff springs, the bar will tend to pull up on the inboard rear wheel, which can contribute to wheelspin.

Adding more spring and sway to the front of the car will still need a redress of the rear as well. But yes, the car is too softly sprung in front. Add some spring in front, add some spring in the rear, and drop the rear bar... IMHO...

-Josh2

Read Tune to win by caroll smith

"soften the end thats not working" that would be the rear

JLS

John, you are correct that is what Carrol Smith says. If you read How to make your car handle, it is say that you need to increase the stiffness at the other end. I did not post any pictures in this post but, I have a huge amount of body roll. Which causes the rear to roll to much and with limited wheel travel in the back, because of the rear bar. With the body roll, I think I might be able to lift the rear wheel with out the rear bar. But the rear bar actuallly causes it to happen sooner. the bigger bar is going in this weekend, so there is no turning back now.

BTW, I will be working on an adjustable rear bar soon also.