I know the 009's suck, the main complaint I have found when searching is inconsistent and/or too little advance.

I was wondering if anyone has purchased from these guys and what you fine folks thought of this supposedly high quality, re-curved with 22 degrees advance, $50 distributor.

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?Pr...VWC-009-000-009

I do not have $350 for a Mallory, if anyone wanted to send me one or the cash that would be great, if not I would just like to discuss this 009. If this distributor was OK it might hold some people over until they can afford something better.

Thanks!

Its set up for a shorter stroked, longer rodded, smaller bored Type 1 engine..

22 degrees of advance will put you at 2 degrees BTDC initial to have a full advance of 28 BTDC, thats about 10 degrees from being optimum and that 10 degrees will cost you up to 20% torque below 3,500 RPM- even on a stock engine.

Save the money for a Mallory and just limp around with what you have for now..

The mallory makes its power through better advance thats adjustable as well as super accurate spark delivery. It has real bushings in its housing that keeps spark scattering to aminimum and that makes power..

just today i dynoed a land speed time trial engine thats racing at Bonneville this weekend (its on a plane as we speak heding to the salt flats) and that little destroked 1493cc engine made 152HP at 7,500 RPM- The Mallory picked up a solid 10% power on this engine in a back to back test with the 009 that was set with the exact same advance!!!
there is the Mallory, and then there is everything else-

The only thing that beats a Mallory is direct fire!

Wow, Jake is answering two of my threads at once, you’re the man Jake!

I was picturing somewhere around 10 degrees at idle and around 30 at 2,800 rpm - 22 degrees total difference, not total advance. That would suck. Thanks

Keep total; advance as close to 28 degrees as possible.. Most engines run coolest and most crisp @ 28 degrees, this is true with near every engine we design that runs on pump gas..

we run 16-18 degrees in the dizzy with great results.. I did a story on it for VW trends magazine in 2001 and showed back to back results- amazing!

So what would be an average "optimal" curve? I realize all engines are not alike but a ballpark to shoot for. I have read (here) anything in the range of 8-12 at idle and 27 to 32 at 3k.

the 8-12 is the initial advance- the 27-32 is full advance...

whats in between that is the curve and thats just one part of the equation...

Keep doing searches- the STF is THE place to go for it, I have been posting Mallory information there since 2000

Thanks, I just started searching there, tons of info on this and my valvetrain question to digest.

I didn't know that either, good reading, thanks Jake!

I missed something. What is STF? Where can I find it?

thanks

ShopTalkForum


What I dont understand is why people would say the 009 is for stationary engines and "it doesnt curve enough"

I have a 009, I also have a 200 dollar timing light (my nixie clock was 340) Its at 7.5 degrees at idle (stock for L-jet) and advances to 27-28 degrees at 3500RPM.

Well the thing I dont understand is...why would a stationary engine NEED adjsuteable (centrifugal ) advance at all? OR why would anybody in thier right mind use a type4 in industrial practices anyway?

The only thing that messed me up was that its 180deg out from normal. so I got the crank-crank-crank-crank-BOOM.

I'll continue to run the 009 till I have problems, and if someone wants to trade me a mallory for my nixie clock, i'll do it.

That's all I'll say on the subject. If anyone wants to ride with me, i'll show you that there really isnt a dead spot.

Edit: OK. If you have a vacuum advance dizzy, its world's better than a 009. Fact is, that out of all the dizzy's I have, none had a functioning vac pot.

b

Until you experience something better you won't realize what the malory can do as a drop in item..

The 009 and the 050 were designed for 912/616 RACE engines, they are always above the advance curve on the track so the need for advance was very limited.

Put a timing light on a 009 and do the same with a mallory and you'll see just how the mallory makes it's power- scattering is eliminated during timing adjustments with the Mallory.

Don't discount the use of a TIV engine as an industrial engine, they were used in fire engines for huge water pumps to fight forest fires, also used in portable sawmills and used for onsite elevators for building skyscrapers among other things.

I have a Mallory in every car I own, because I know the benefits. The dizzy cap on the 912 E hasn't been changed since I built the engine in 2002, that dizzy has about 90K miles on that cap and was only removed when I pulled the dizzy to do test work for the kit carlson EMS in 2004.

well Jake, I realize the potential the mallory has to offer, but the pricetag is more than I can swallow while i'm between jobs.

but its something i'll check into. Is the optical module like a pertronix (IE touchy) or does it actually hold up to some abuse?

b

The pertronix, compufore and MSD are magnetic and very touchy. The mallory uses an optical sensor..

I have seen TWO units fail out of well over 500 units sold/used and BOTH of those were because an idiot installed them without using Mallory compatible parts. An MSD box or coil should be ran WITH MSD, not Mallory and vice versa!

I installed the dizzy in my Bus in 2001, I have not touched it since. I have verified timing 3-4 times since then but not made a single adjustment, its right where I put it.

The Mallory is not cheap, but they do pop up on ebay from time to time..

maybe i'll have a look...

so whats the deal about the non-vac advance issue?

The people on thesamba love the vac advance, but here, its the non-vac version that gets the props.

would a chevy version, etc work? for some reason they are significantly cheaper. Probably not, but doesnt hurt askin'

b

The vac unit has design flaws, these have cost me two engines, so i no longer use them and haven't needed them to get substantial results on the street in daily drivers making gobs of power..

Most of the "samba- ites" are totally lost and have little wrench time under their belts- they read something somewhere and parrott it on the samba..

The chevy unit is entirely different from the advance to the physical properties and mounting.

When I changed from 009 to Jake's mallory unit set up for my car. I was amazed. and could instantly hear and feel the difference.
Head temps were lower, engine ran smoother and pulled harder.
Between the dizzy and my Tangerine EVO header it's the best money spent next to Slicks to make my car faster.

Does the Mallory come with a cap that uses stock wires? The reason I ask is that the MSD does not.

can the 009 be modified to get more "range" internally?

"Well the thing I dont understand is...why would a stationary engine NEED adjsuteable (centrifugal ) advance at all? OR why would anybody in thier right mind use a type4 in industrial practices anyway?"

They need advance because they'd be reluctant to start and come up to speed with 20-30 degrees of initial advance. A T4 would make an ideal industrial motor. Far better than the costly and relatively fragile 356/912 motor (which has an extensive history of industrial use!). BTW, ever seen a T3 air compressor? 2 cylinders run as an engine, the other 2 run as an air compressor. The Cap'n

Yes, the trick is finding someone with a distributor machine who knows how to use it. They're getting pretty rare.

I am running the vaccume advance (stock) 2.0 dizzy with an MSD - car runs pretty smooth, but I have always felt it was a tad cobbled together. The tach adapter alone doesn't give me a "warm fuzzy".

Jake, if I order a mallory all set up from you, is that all I need or is there an ignition box/coil you reccommend as well?

Thanks for all of the info.
-S

I think this all is getting REALLY out of hand.

We're building a type4, not a rocket engine.

If you all are wheezing at my 009 decision, wait till you hear about my next engine.

b

Keep thinking like that and you'll keep going slow!


I promote craziness, but if you approach it like its anything less than rocket science you may as well not even attempt it.

I take this as seriously as if it were the U2 Spyplane needing modifications- thats why we get results.

If anything is worth doing, its worth doing as thoroughly as possible! Overkill does not exist!

The Mallory does NOT need anything other than a Bosch coil to work fine. You can add other tricks like spark boxes, but they are NOT needed for proper function. The Mallory uses stock spark plug wires as well.

This is NOT true with MSD as you MUST run their CDI box and a special MSD plug wire- spend all that money and still end up with a pile of shit thats not adjustable correctly for a 4 cylinder engine-

Well I guess that's how we differ.

I guess my being content going "slow" saves me money.

Nope, you can just become more proficient! take the time to figure out the issues with the 009 and come up with resolutions for them through perseverence AND ELBOW GREASE WITH SOME THOUGHT- THATS FREE...

I have built some engines for limited race apps that would not allow the Mallory or any performance dizzy- we even HAD to run points..

I came up with bearings to support the drive as well as making an adjustable breaker plate for it and robbing springs from a Nissan dizzy to change the advance rate. It took a few days to do it and tweak it, but the result was THREE championship seasons in MAORA class 1-1600. No one even knew what I had done to the dizzy from the outside!

You can overcome a lack of funds with extreme effort, but be ready to learn and be ready to fail more than you succeed.

Being a cheap bastard isn't an excuse- you own a Porsche, remember??

Jake, what you're doing is wonderful. If I had the dough, i'd cough it up right now.

I just dont understand why, if OE stuff is so bad, it lasts 30+ years and oover 100k miles.

Neglect kills these engines--if the head temps dont go to 400, seats wont drop as easily.

b

Its not bad, but its not optimum for todays standards...

What hasn't changed in 30 years ???

Not a damn thing.

it's all about making improvments and trying to push the limit...

with your thinking why are you going to collage???

millions of people for hundreds of years have gone thru life without even a highschool education...as with everything, there is reason to try to make improvments..even the lowly paperclip has had people try to "improve" it even thou it's worked fine for a hundered years or whatever...

Edison had THREE MONTHS of formal "school" education...

HE configured the keyboard that we are all typing on.. If it wasn't for him we'd still be using candles...

No one should ever forget that school can take the place of effort and perseverence-

I didn't mean to discredit anyone for not having a formal education...i know of lot of idiots that went to collage

...

Me too, I bail them out of trouble on a regular basis when their ideas don't work worth a fuck!

There are always exceptions to every rule, but nothing supercedes effort and dedication to the application.

BTW- pick up a current copy of Hot VWs magazine for the final part of our build up story. In that story I blew the author away with the Mallory on the dyno as you can read in the dyno tuning portion of the article... ou can see what HE saw first hand as he was taking down numbers from the dyno right beside me as we made changes... Get the article and read it-

Mike, the education thing didnt need to get thrown in.

I did mess up and now i'm trying to fix things and get a real career going.

I dont know everything, but I guess if one wants a engine that works and is guaranteed to work for xxx miles (I never actually knew how many miles they work for) then pay it down.

I dont mind doing a engine swap every year or two. Well it sucks, but there are worse things to happen to a person.

b

I don't (think) Mike meant the education thing as a smack... it read like an analogy to your "30-year old stuff works just fine" comment to me.

The reason you would have a continued education is knowledge continues to grow. Jake, through his work in this arena is growing the knowledge bank. You may be doing the same thing with computer sciences... Mike's just saying "we're not using Commadore 64's anymore either"

(I think)

Because I have some experience with computers (more so than aircooled cars) I can speak there,

If a computer works reliably and does what I need it to do day in and day out, I dont care *how* fast it is.

I woudl rather use an older 80486 with great capicators and components rather than a Athlon 64 2x CPU computer with caps that'll blow as soon as I get it home...

Catch my drift?

If I can have 60HP reliably, i'm cool.

With Jake, he pushes the bar, making a reliable 175HP+ engine (or probably more now), great power--good money too.

With me, If I could get 70k out of a stock-build engine (1.7-1.8, maybe bus 2.0) then I am set.

Maybe I think differently, thats just how I see things.

b

Which is what we need "you" for... you're the next generation right? Fix the problems. You do, and you'll never have to whine in public about the price of a distributor again.

Shit and then maybe the next time I have rear brake troubles at 3am, I can just give you a call

Eric I think after things get settled with me I'll be giving you a call.

I'm through with the argument. Nobody is wrong here, I think we're just all different--and thats good.

I mean could you imagine if we *ALL* took pics like someone we know

You'll be so rich from solving all the PC problems. Next time you have brake troubles at 3:00AM you can just whip out the checkbook and buy me (and Jake... and buy Opa a new camera or some photography classes)

Wow, this kinda looks like all the other 009 threads I found.

After reading Jake state that he thought you could use a 009 if you re-curved it I am back to my original question about the one I linked to. It says it is re-curved properly, I think I forgot how to add in one of my earlier posts but could someone (Jake?) follow the link and see if the statement they make about re-curving that particular 009 makes sense?

Thanks

OMFG!!

I just want to say that to so many of the Porsche owners I meet...

I DO say it... They don't like it- but I don't care..