Can you tell which one is my No. 4 exhaust lifter? It failed on the way home from the WCC. I just finished installing the ceramic ones. I hope they take care of a recuring problem.

can you tell by looking which one is exhaust? i would say no but hopefully others will confirm or correct. i would think the only way to tell which is #4 exhaust is to know which lifter bore the lifters were removed from.

are you serious????

any damage to the pushrod?

YIKES!

Seen it happen before, had it happen before an engine even fired up while adjusting valves on the bench.

Where did you source the lifters?

well actually i was. if you can tell what bore a lifter, out of the engine, came out of, 'splain it to me.

The actual question was. Which one failed? It happened to be my no. 4 exhaust.

Elliot

You don't notice anything "odd" about the lifter on the right???

sorry, i read the question as which of the 2 lifters shown in the picture came out of the #4 exhaust bore. i did suspect there was something up with the one on the right.

Since in the heading he said something to the effect of "can you tell which one is my bad #4 exhaust lifter" and he posted a pic of a good lifter and a bad lifter, uhhhhhhh.....duh!

The engine was built by FAT Performance in Orange California. This is the third time this has happened. The first time, I had just installed the engine and 20 miles later the engine was back out of the car with lifter problems. I think they failed while still on the dyno. FAT has made good on everything and have been very supportive. The second time the No. 2 exhaust lifter collapsed and now the No.4. I hope the ceramic lifters cure this problem, as the thing runs great and produces good hp. I'm not sure where they got the lifters. I'll find out.
Cheers, Elliot

None at all. I had to tug on it a bit to get it out of the lifter.
Elliot

Elliot, lemme know who made those. You can ship me in a box to thier doorstep, and i'll take care of everything for you.

Once the lights go out, they'll never see whats coming.



b

I don't wish to insult you but you seem confused so here is a little back ground.

The lifter on the left, as you can see in the middle has a concave hole in it and

in the center of that is a hole. The push rod (which is convex on the end) end fits

in that hole, the other end of the lifter rides on the cam lobe. As the cam rotates

the lifter follows the lobe and moves in and out pushing on the push rod which

in turn moves the rocker arm opening and closeing the valve. The lifter on the

right has a big hole, no place for the posh rod to ride. I think you can figure it

out from here.

sorry, it's after 10 on the east coast and after a full day, didn't read all of the heading. i am somewhat familiar with the lifter, pushrod, rocker arrangement. thanks.

Elliot,

How is the push rod / Rocker arm geometry coming along?

And did you source a new pusrod? The old one HAS to be smoked.

Did ya look at the push rod with a magnifying glass????????????

I know you know your shit Elliot....

I am just trying to be helpful...........

And cautious. Your engine runs SSssoooooooo good. I simply want to support you in doing it right..

Oh... I might have extra rocker shims if needed..................

Clayton

ellyut....

i have an adjustable pushrod if you are doing it over (geometry)

rock out with your pushrods out!

Aaron......

Did you really say "rock out with your pushrod out"..???????????

Dude.... You and I have to have a pimp my ride kinda conversation....

Jew know???

Twystd1

ROFL- you know it!

Aiiite, Da big EllYUT here wif my mota!
this flat hulk aint like no toyota!
swappin lifters, and pushrods out....
WTF did i do? give A-ron a shout....

so again, get out of the hammock, and play with your ceramic

Dude...

U R so carnal... My face hurt wid jew comment.......

Brought tears to my eye holes...

Badassdog........... U B da manholio!...... (kinda like brad but more)

Twystd1

carnal? isnt that what they put in my savage burrito on friday? carnal asada? LOL or was that carnalitas?

man... keep the comments to a level where i dont have to google the friggin punchlines!

rofl....

ellyut fell asleep apparently.....(9:15 pm.... past his bed time...)

Yo yo yo.....

Da Eelyut ain't in da bed yet.... he B smacking his gums over hiss lady and stuff... (sheep, etc.)

Dis lifter thang seem to B da major prob facing da planet now days...

And da ceramic being made into vests and stuff..

I say gimme da lifters and make em out a crack or somethin....

Cause maybey we smoke em if day break....

(I love this cold medicine by the way)

Twystd1

One day people will learn that an extra 50 bucks spent on components that are properly developed is way cheaper than broken parts.

Look familiar?



The MFR of those lifters tole ME that I had assembled an engine wrong to have these issues, what he could not get through his thick skull was the fact that one failure occured while the engine was being turned over- BY HAND before it EVER RAN!

Now, take your old lifters and beat them upside down on a solid surface like concrete- you'll note that all the pushrod cups move or fall out! This is a manufacturing error that won't be admiitted to.

When you don't want this crap to happen, you have an option.

so you have lifters that withstand being beaten upside down on concrete?

I dont get it

:confuzzled:

The key word I believe is "OLD" lifters. Probably not a good idea with new ones.

Mark

The pushrod cups should NEVER MOVE in the body of the lifter. they are a press fit..

These problematic lifters have improper machine work that fits the pushrod cup too loosely in the lifter body. The reciprocation really works on the cup that has started to float and then it breaks...

When I was doing my lifter R&D I bought 20 sets of these lifters and threw away over 75% of them due to them not passing this simple test. The others got a whole bunch of different procedures done to them from regrinding to DLC coating, nitriding and parkerizing...

The answer is no, my pushrod cups don't explode. If you can move one with a sledge hammer you are lucky.

From the posted pic (Elliotts) I would say the lifter on the left is a stock one and the one on the right is a racing one. The larger hole is for higher oil flow.








You sure the cam is ok, Elliott? I would break the motor down

the more I look at the pic of the one that didn't fail the more it looks like the ones that i saw that were about to fail..

Elliott, take an old pushrod or punch and give the pushrod cup a few whacks and see what it does... Do it right in the center, neat the oil passage.

Remember, Toyota currently produces a pushrod motor, so it's not so far off .............

Cast arn pushrod dinosaur V8, matter of fact, with a carburetor.

i hear it is in one of dem roundy round left hand turnin carrs

I have been pretty careful installing the new lifters. The ceramic lifters were just a bit higher than the steel ones and I added shims to make up the difference. I checked the push rod and couldn't find any problems. I will replace a leaky flywheel seal and put everything back together in the next few days. I think I'll try Jakes test on a few of the old lifters. I agree that this was some kind of manufacturing problem and it's too bad cause I think I'm not the only one with this issue.
Cheers, (and thanks for all the advise) Elliot

PS The cam appears to be ok. The wear patterns look ok and except for the noisy valve the engine ran great.

PS The cam appears to be ok. The wear patterns look ok and except for the noisy valve the engine ran great.
[/quote]


"Appears" is the keyword and I would tear is down and check it out. I have never had much luck lookin in thru the side of the motor other than " yup, cam is still there" visual check.

Who is the manuf. of the cam?

Last year I spoke to Elliot about this issue.

I agree that it is difficult to eye ball a cam when it's in the engine.

Dam near impossible to tell if it's GOOD.

IN FACT......

Just tore a 2.0 apart on the bench last week.

Looking through the pushrod hole with good sunlight and the engine on a table sitting outside.... The cam looked passable.

Once I opened up the case and took it out.

I could PLAINLY SEE THE CAM WAS SERIOUSLY HOSED..!!!!!!!!

Therefore... if I had to inspect another cam with the engine all together. I would use a bore scope and REALLY look at it closely. (magnification rules)
By the way...When Elyut's engine is running good... it is very sweet indeed.

Clayton