looking into possibility. from the looks of it (if the frame is the same dimentions ) the frame bolts, steering coupler, upper struts and brake lines are the only consideration. what should i expect to pay for this set up?

yes, '70s and up to late '80s 911 to 914 is a direct bolt in for the complete front suspension ...

price, dunno, depends on the condition i suppose. i paid $800 for my '84 carrera front suspension. that was 6 years ago and included a underbody sway bar as well ...
Andy

YES INDEED!

No, that will never work. You need to send me the complete assembly and I will properly dispose of it for you.










You should be able to use the whole unit and it is a bolt-in.

You will have to buy new 911 front brake hoses and use the 911 brake hose clips as the 914 parts are slightly different. (You could probably modify the struts to accept the 914 brake lines, but why not just use the right parts? I knew mine were 32 year old originals, so I didn't mind too much replacing them.

I wouldn't pay more than $350 for a 1974 setup. You will need all new bushings, new rotors and need to rebuild the calipers. I would go to $400-$450 for up to a 1983 SC and $500 tops for a 1984-1989 (Carrera). Turbo parts are really expensive.

It will bolt right up but... while you're at it, ditch the underbody bar and add a through body bar.

I'm looking to a do a 5-lug conversion too. Can you tell me how the 911 front suspension evolved from the 70s through the 80s? I know the calipers changed from 3" to 3.5" at some point--what other changes were there and in what years? Also would new bushings, rotors, and rebuilt calipers be needed for any used front suspension? Do you have a recommendation on a particular year(s) for a 914? I'm looking for spirited street driving and occasional autocrossing.

Thanks!

are you swapping to 5-lug for looks or thinking that the 911 suspension is better??

The only real benifit to the 5-lug is better choice of wheels and easier to put on big/overkill/not-needed-except-for-real-racing calipers (only for the 3.5" spacing struts)

You can have vented rotors with a 4-lug setup....


the only time stock /4 brakes suck is when the owner does not properly maintain/service them

arounf 75 they went to an underbody swaybar design (non adjustable)

i believe up to 1989 wikll bolt in

Both. I like the 5-petal Fuchs (already purchased and waiting for the 5-lug conversion to happen) and I want better braking and handling. My understanding is that the 3.5" calipers will accomodate bigger pads for shorter braking distance. Having the added sway bar etc. also I see as contributing to better handling.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=55559

Thanks Andy for the link. Actually I've read it. The part that is relevant to my situation right now is not very clear. That is, it says that adding bigger front calipers without changing the master cylinder (I have the 17mm stock) may or may not improve braking because the fronts may just lock up before the rears. But it's not conclusive (as far as I can tell).

I've communicated with at least two mechanics who have said the bigger calipers will improve overall braking with otherwise stock components. Anyone else care to chime in?

you need to balance front and rear braking ability..

Sure...

Don't 911s stock have larger torsion bars too? Ever priced upgraded 914 torsion bars? Just another benefit of the 911 setup I thought I'd point out.

914 = 17.8mm T bars...
911 = 19mm T bars

slightly larger

Understood, but it's not clear to me whether adding 3.5" calipers to an otherwise stock setup will upset that balance. Simple question but if it does, does this mean I would need 3.5" calipers in the rear as well?

Anybody with actual experience of adding 3.5" front calipers on a stock setup that can say authoritatively whether this improves braking or not? I'm sure there must be some people who did the 5-lug conversion without doing anything else except swap out the front suspension with 3.5" calipers.

eric shea happens to be our brake guru here, as he happens to be rebuilding his brains out with members caliprs....

3.5" = caliper bolt spacing. there are a bunch of caliper options....
why do you think you need A or S calipers (3.5" spacing OEM porsche) calipers?

3" spacing calipers with Aggresive pads are alot of stopping force too!

eric can also reccomend Master cylinder/caliper/proportioning valve combos that would work well, and fall well within factory setups....

Pretty simple: I was led to believe that 3.5" calipers would improve braking performance, and it made sense to me. But maybe I was wrong and all I need are 3" calipers with better braking pads! (Currently stock I believe.) I would like the 911 front suspension however for the sway bar and improved torsion bar.

What I do know is that I would like to improve stopping power and reduce braking distance. (I have a bad habit of tailgating! ) The PO had the calipers rebuilt so I am assuming that there is no problem there. The mechanic who did the PPI for me said that the brakes felt normal for a 914.

Any suggestions Eric?

Me?

I'm generally not very opinionated...

I do recommend a few years for what I would consider an ideal 5-lug conversion for a 914-4 with narrow fenders (or any narrow bodied car for that matter). 1969 through 1973 T-suspensions.

I'll back my way into that, first let me answer some of your questions: Mounting arrangements have been both 3" and 3.5" since 1967 when the 911S with it's special S-Calipers were introduced.

It's true, the 3.5" mount does afford some of the later/larger calipers but, my viewpoint on these cars is to approach it with the entire system in mind. Now on to the shorter braking myth.

The first thing we ask is; Can you lock up your tires now? If yes, then you can't stop any faster even with Cayenne brakes... your tires have let go. If the answer is no, you need to have your stock brakes looked at. Any narrow body car with virtually any tire/wheel combo can lock up the wheels with stock brakes. So... stock brakes are more than adequate. Here's what you can do to help: New tires (larger contact patch preferably) and new pads. Make sure you have organic vs. metallic. An almost unanimous club recommend is the Porterfield P4S (s as in street). If you have a bad tailgating habit... knock it off or, change your pads and tires and your 914 will have a bad habit of throwing you through the windshield. Then take your mechanic for a ride and throw him through the windshield

Now, if you want to go 5-lug let's look at the options you have there. Thankfully the folks at Porsche did this for us on about 3,318 (give or take a few GT's a handful of 916's and a couple 914-8's) examples known as the 914-6. Porsche used the 911T front suspension from that year. This had the 5-lug hub and 3" caliper mounting ear spacing. The T system used a M-Caliper up front (48mm piston) with the same size pad a stock caliper uses. Cars with this "system" used a 38mm piston in the back. 914-6 calipers have the 38mm rear piston and 911's use the rear M-Calipers that have the 38mm pistons as well. So... we know that's a pretty good system.

The only clear advantage I see with going to one of these systems is the vented rotors. 914-6's even had a special 17.8mm torsion bar made up with the 911 spline count. Why would a 911 t-bar on a 914 be an improvement? I think an overly sprung car can be a pain, especially on the street. The 911 setup is 18.8mm and it probably won't be a big issue... but, there's way too much "Bigger is Better" going on here and there's quite a few serious auto-x cars out there with stock t-bars. You want your suspension to work with you and your car. I would even go so far as to keep the 914 A-arms and make sure they have sway bar tabs on them.

Now, why do I like those years?

*This will guarantee you a set up with vented rotors (68 911's were solid other than the S model).
*This will also have the 3" spacing for the M-Caliper.
*The A-arms on these systems are set up for through body sway bars (read: more choice of aftermarket sizes and better geometry).
*These Boge based struts will hold virtually any aftermarket strut insert (Koni, Bilstein).
*Anything past 1971 will also have the updated/upgraded ball joints.

Now... you would have:

911 M-Calipers up front.
914 Calipers in the rear.

The 914 rear caliper has 33mm pistons. You could remove the proportioning valve and install a T or you could keep it an attempt to adjust it to your new system. You should also consider a 19mm master cylinder at this time as well. I would move to a 19mm and then work on adjusting the proportioning valve that's in the car. Once it's set, you forget it.

Finally... if the car has flares and 160+ hp, I would recommend an A or S-Caliper up front and probably a different brake/handbrake solution in the rear.

For the record, and to confirm the above....

i have a 19mm master, M calipers up front (73 911 front end) and stock rear /4 calipers and a TEE in the rear

porterfield r4s street/AX pads all around.

stops on a dime and still can lock up brakes (not very nice to Competition tires.. but im working on getting smoother)

Crap bro, mix and match and make a popoury of it!LOL I tried to get one for $500 on ebay but the dude woulden't sell it for less than eight. He didn't sell it and I'm happy I didn't get it since I don't need it right now like everything I get for this toy!!

At least we play with real toys that go boom and we go ow!!

Dang Eric, that was one freakin' awesome reply!!! Thanks and kudos to you!!!

I'm heading out the door now but I will respond more fully to your comments later.