I'm trying to decide what to replace my current stock 2.0 (and rusted with holes) muffler with.

I'm considering a Bursch--I listened to one and it sounded pretty good.

I'm also considering the Triad and Tangerine exhaust systems. If there are any SoCal teeners who would be willing to let me come by and take a look/listen, I'd really appreciate it!

I'm trying to balance performance, sound (prefer not too loud yet nice aggressive note), and cost.

BTW I bought my first 914 last week--a black '74 2.0--and I'm stoked!!!

Eugene

Tangerine is in an entirely different group than any of the others. 100% hand made and fully tig welded with constant development that i assist with generally..

Buying an exhaust for sound as a primary objective isn't cool..

The impacts that exhaust have on our engines are incredible, the exhaust limits everything that can be done as well as what the engine will be like for tuning, MPG and running temps.
Tangerine is worth twice what it costs!

Hi Jake,

Thanks for the response. I understand that Tangerine is in a different performance/cost category as the others. What I am trying to do is determine if is worth it (to me) to spend the extra money for it.

While exhaust sound may not be important to you and many others especially if you are concerned primarily with performance, I personally find the sound of the exhaust to be relevant since performance is not my only consideration. Frankly I don't want to wake up the entire neighborhood everytime I drive home at night...

But I appreciate what you have to say about the importance of the exhaust on performance--whhich is precisely why I am considering Tangerine.

Anybody in the LA area using Tangerine?

Eugene

are just looking for muffer?? or the entire exhaust??

Tangerine makes headers and a muffler for it, not sure he makes a replacement muffler to be bolted to your heat exchangers...( I seriously doubt it)

Triad makes a header as well as a seperate bolt-on 2.0 replacement muffler

"all" of the headers sound great with just a simple "street" muffler...but I'm guessing you are just looking for muffler, not an "exhaust" system..I have a European Racing header with street muffler and it's sweeeet sounding

I've never heard a Triad muffler but I have read good things about them...the Bursch muffler sounds pretty decent I think.....

Thanks for the response. I'm looking for a muffler but I'm willing to install headers or SSI heat exchangers if I thought it was worth it. I communicated with Chris at Tangerine and he said that his mufflers can only be used with his headers.

Part of my problem is that I've never heard an exhaust system with headers and street muffler on a 914. I've only heard a stock exhaust, a Bursch, and my muffler with a hole in it!

I've read through the archives pretty extensively and think I have a reasonably good understanding about how to improve performance through exhaust mods--either use SSI heat exchangers or headers with performance muffler such as a Triad, Tangerine, etc. Even though I want to improve performance, I would be willing to stay with my stock heat exchangers and a stock-comparable muffler such as a Bursch if I thought that a performance setup was too loud.

Since my 2.0 is stock, ideally I'd like to meet some local 914 owners with stock 2.0 engine but upgraded exhaust so I can get an idea of the derived performance boost.

IMHO almost any exhaust is going to give you better performance then the

stock one. Do you want to retain your heater? If not spend the extra and get

yourself a header system I hear Tangerine is good. Otherwise One outlet two

outlet's what do you want? They all sound good next to the stock muffler.

Thanks for the response. I forgot to mention that the heater in my stock 2.0 doesn't work right now anyway because one of the POs had the relevant ducts removed.

Yeah I'm really tempted by the Tangerine setup but I would be a little hesitant to pull the trigger without having experienced it in person first. But I must say the Tangerine twin tips look mighty nice...

I think the Triad dual exhaust looks pretty sweet too. And it has the nice benefit of bolting onto the stock HEs without needing to upgrade to headers right away--a cost saving consideration. Not sure how it compares to the Tangerine though in terms of performance...

You cannot and I repeat, CANNOT compare the Tangerine exhuast system with any muffler that bolts to the stock or even SSI heat exchangers....period....it's been proven in Grassroots Magazine..the Tangerine exhaust was made for performance, not to sound good.....

The Tangerine header is proven to unleash more HP than any other combo out there..it comes at a price however....$1575 for the bare minimum system you'd have to purchase....(if I had the bux, I'd be all over it and have one myself)

If you have close to $1600 to spend on the exhaust, then it's the best choice, if you only have a few hundred bucks to spend then no need to waste anybodys time trying to locate one just to listen to...

As for the other brand headers, they start in the $400 range and go up a few hundred bucks depending on the options (like a muffler and ceramic coatings which add $$$ to the mix)

Tangerine's come with heat exchangers for more $$$$s.

If you have the bucks.... It is probably the best case scenario...

Especially if you upgrade your engine internals at some point in the future.

You would already have the best exaust available at this time.
(With H/Es)

A little note of interest. You can hang almost any muffler you can imagine on any of the header systems mentioned in this thread. From very quite to obnoxious loud....... Your choice.

Rwystd1

I have the the Triad with headers on a 2.0 and like the sound, but that's individual taste, of course. PM if ya wanna listen.

I didn't know they made a Triad muffler to go with headers for the /4...the "standard" /4 muffler for Triad headers is a standard/generic V8 muffler I thought...

the Triad muffler for heat exchangers for the /4 is the custom glasspack looking assembly.....

this is getting confusing

howard has 2l exchangers and a triad MUFFLER setup. 3 glasspacks....
had the same one. apart from being heavy, sounded super gnarly, and bolts up to 2.0 heat exchangers......

i now have a eurorace header system. stub pipes, primaries, collector, and single "turbo" muffler....

works great. new, these are only 7-800 bucks.... used around 300.

AA

Bought the car with headers and a custom muffler. The headers fit the standard 2.0 config. Muff crapped out, and since it already had two cutouts on the rear valence, a member had a Triad he wasn't using, etc.

Lousy pic, but too much crap in the way.

they arent headers. they are 2l HE's with the heat shield removed.....

Cool. Show me yours

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?auto...ach&id=4020
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?auto...ach&id=4019
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?auto...ach&id=3870

IIRC the Grassroots Magazine article did not include a comparison with a Triad header/exhaust setup. I understand the Tangerine exhaust system was not made to "sound good". But the fact that Chris has two types of mufflers is evidence that some consideration is given to sound. So one of the things I am trying to determine is whether I think the sound is too loud for my tastes. I also understand that the Tangerine system apparently provides the biggest HP boost. I'd like to experience for myself if I think that the power increase is worth it (from the perspective of price, performance, sound, durability, etc.) compared to other less expensive systems. Perhaps my initial post was not clear enough but implicit to my request is that I have the opportunity to ride in the car to get a feel for the power increase firsthand, not just listen to it.

Yes I have the money to spend on the Tangerine but the key point is that I want to make an informed decision on a system that will suit me, and I consider firsthand knowledge/experience to be important.

So in that spirit I ask again--any Socal teeners with modified exhaust willing to let me take a look?

Thanks Howard!

Chris considers everything including sound. he can make the system VERY quiet with the addition of a "quiet can" attached. with the quiet system the engine isn't much louder than stock.

An exhaust system must first enhance efficiency of the engine, if it doesn't you have just wasted your money- with efficiency comes MPG, torque and everything else.

Chris has the only 4-2-1 collector arrangement and that automatically makes the engine have a quieter exhaust note. I know this from testing all the combos on the dyno and noting how many miles it can be heard fro the shop. One of my employees, brent lives 6 miles away. almost any 4-1 arrangement can be heard on his front porch 6 miles from here, the tangerine can't not at all- even with an open header on an 8,500 RPM engine. The header is automatically quieter from its design so it takes less muffler to make a quieter total system.

The Tangerine has come a LONG way since the Grassroots article. Chris and I have worked together to make the system even better with his new "EVO" design.

Everything that you do with your engine has the capability of being foiled by exhaust- take it very seriously.

BTW- When i get my second dyno installed over the winter I will be setting up its dyno cell to allow for easier fitment of the popular 914 exhausts and will be doing a live dyno cast on one of our radio shows that will cover the subject. we'll crown the king on a 2270-and you can watch the whole process!

Personally, I'm betting that the Triad muffler will have 0 to 3hp gain over the stock muffler...

So basicly you are saying that if a $1600 system sounds best you'll fork over the money instead of getting a $600 or even a $200 setup?? I find that hard to believe.... , but hey, people do crazy things

I do believe Chris had made some changes(improvements) in his header design since that article so there will be even more HP gain....now for a bone stock motor, I'm not sure if the increase would be the same percentage as with a mod'd motor....

Maybe I haven't made myself clear. Sound is only one consideration among many including price and performance.

Jake makes a very compelling argument for the Tangerine system and I have to admit I am very tempted.

Any SoCal Tangerine users out there? Heck how about Northern California? I'm up there all the time anyway....

if you ever make it out this way, i will take you for a ride in a eurorace 4-1 header equipped 914.

I had stock 2L exchangers and a triad at one time. sounded great, drove niceley, and was a noticable low end improvement over the bursch. It was pretty loud on a carbed car.

The eurorace header i have, picked up a ton of midrange and top end over the stock heat exchanger design. a littlw quieter, and definitely more HP/Torque over stock

Thanks Aaron! In fact I'll be in Riverside next Saturday--maybe I could stop by in Corona on the way there or back?

I'll PM you.

I spent $150 for this header with a Super Trap muffler. Spent another $100 ceramic coating it which is rust proof inside and out and chrome finish now. It might give me some more HP's but won't take any away since the Super Trap is adjustable. It sounds as loud as you want and can be loud ass hell if the dougnuts are removed for nonrestictive flow. What I'm saying is the deals are out there and swop meets are the way to go for the best deals!! AS for sound, right now like a motor bike with a muffler, and full flow, without the spark arrestor's doughnuts, like a Harley straight pipe. YA BABY!!

Cheap Hp's are gained by removing weight!!!

Yes you have.....it's just that a 6 sounds so cool your eyes rolled up so's you couldn't see the muffler.

When you're going to be driving up 101 to Nor Cal give me a PM.

I'm on the Central Cal Coast and would be glad to show you my Tangerine Headers & Phase 9 setup.

There's a 1.8 in Fiuntain Valley--'bout 30min souuth from Santa Monica on 405. I went over and talked to owner--very informative. Pros and Cons available; he did all the work and has some good info.

Thanks, I appreciate it!

Thanks for the info--I'd be very interested in talking to him. Do you happen to know how I could get in touch with him?

This is a great thread!
Just wanted to make a couple of comments before going back below radar:
The muffler on the pictured Tangerine system was a prototype of my Stage II silencer. I made adjustments to the internal configuration for better sound and the best performance. I think the sound of that one is just a little louder than my current Stage II's. The purchaser's name is Jim Lindenberger, and I think his daughter drives the car.
The other change I made since the prototype is to have an intermediate mounting bracket that gives the system a little flexibility. I felt that hard mounting the muffler to the back of the tranny made things a little too rigid.
Jake's comments were accurate except for one thing - I don't offer an added "Quiet Can" anymore. The Stage II Silencer is a stand alone street muffler with it's outlet in the stock location.

Chris, I was afraid that I goofed up there.... I didn't know if you had switched all the systems to the EVO design or still made a few of them for some applications.

Great clarification!

As always it comes down to personal preference.

However, I have heard the Triad and the Bursch side by side. The Bursch sounded a bit higher pitched and raspy to me; whereas the triad has a nice growl yet you can still roll in late without waking the neighborhood.

IMHO between those two I'd most definately take the Triad. Not to mention it only runs you $320.

I can't speak for the Tangerine as I have yet to see one of their setups.

Apples and oranges.....

Tangerine (oranges) is a complete 4-2-1 headers system

Triad (apples) is a muffler that bolts to your stock or SSI heat exchangers....

completelly different animals