Here are some more rocker arm question,

Are the orings on the rocker studs made of anything special or will plan black (harbor fright) ones work. If they are special what are they made of?

I will try to attach some picks, but this is the problem. One set of rocker arems (1 clinder) went on no prob. The other set (same head) will not sit down all the way on the studs and one of the arms is off set from the valve. What am I missing?

I get fatal error on line 6 when I try to post pics (more than 30 sec) (sorry dial-up). I have pics if some one thinks it will help I could email them.

Thanks

-Pete

You are not missing anything.

The valves are trying to open on that cylinder.

Bolt them down.

The wave washers should be used on the rockers arms.


B

Oh.. did you keep all the rockers with each head ?? In other words..did you mix them all up while you had the engine apart ??


B

Well no. PO took them apart, had heads redone then bought the larger rocker arms. I bought this whole car in boxes and he had the rocker in a jumble. I only have 7 of the larger rocker arms, should I just use the old ones? I have pics of both, but I can't seem to post them.
What about the o-rings?
Should I try to regrind the adjustment screws to shape them ( some are preened).

Thanks again

-Pete

I kinda need to start from the beginning.

Is this a 4 or a 6 ??

I dont know of any O-rings on a 4cyl engine.


Let me find a pic for you showing a 4cyl. I'm headed to the shop and wont be back online until 10pm or so.


B

Thanks for the help Brad. Sorry, it is a 4 cylinder. The O-rings according to the Haynes book go over the rocker studs, but I didn't seem to get any new ones in the gasket kit.
How bad would it be if I used those wavy washers on the case? Could I just get some more or are they too thin for the case. If so can I undo some of the little case bolts and then re-torque them with different washers? Damn I hope I don’t have to take all that stuff off.

Thanks again

-Pete

Ok. Here is a pic of a head. I have never installed "O" rings on the rockers arm studs.

Is this what you are talking about ??


B

Its ok to use wavy washers on the small M8 studs with 13mm nuts that go all around the case.

I *think* what you are talking about is the case half thru bolts that have a small sealing ring on the nuts.

See pic below... and let me know if this is what you are referring to.



B

You are correct, I was tlking about 8mm studs. I bolted it down just to see but there is still one rocker that won't line up. It is off center by about 1/3? Any thoughts?


I think I figured out why he had two sets of rockers (one off a 1.7 and new ones for this 2.0) Any idea why brand new looking rockers would have mushed adjusting screws? Any way to reshape the ends or should I just replace them?

Thanks again for all your help
Little by little she comes together

-Pete

Sorry forgot the o-rings. Again you are correct. Those studs in your photo are the ones I was reading about. But if you don't use them I won't either.

Thanks again

-Pete

OK. We are now getting somewhere.

If the "jam" nut is rounded... you can take them to a bench grinder and carefully knock the burrs off the edges.

I'm looking for a pic with rocker arms mounted to the heads.


B

Be careful. In my pic above I accidently pointed to the thick washer that is used under the head of that nut that is supposed to have the sealing ring in it.


B

I figured out what you ment. It is not the jam nut that is bad but the part of the adjuster that contacts the top of the valve stem.

Thanks again

-Pete

OK now that I can post pics, perhaps some one can help with this valve train. See the line... that rocker arm is off by like 30% maybe a little less. Is that normal? I have the bolts tight.

Thanks

-Pete

Here is another view.

Can you tell me who rebuilt the theads ??

Put some more light on it so I can see the rocker arm and the valves stem better.

B

I don't think it is very unusual to find rocker arms that don't fully line up with the valve stem. The factory that made the rocker arms apparently didn't have such good quality control. Jake Raby has also told me that the lift ratio of the rockers varies considerably from one to the next.

I've never seen o-rings associated with the rocker assembly attachment to the studs.

It's a good idea to replace the adjusters if they have a lot of wear/peening. 911 swivel adjusters are the best, but require some alteration to the rocker arms for correct geometry of the rocker arm to the valve.

I wonder if the rebuild place installed the guides crooked. I have seen this more than once.


B

I've done lots of Type 1 (beetle) and T4 heads, what Chris said is right on the money. Being a bit off centre won't hurt anything. As far as driving in the guide crooked this usually mushrooms or ovals the guide upon install.

Type 1 has an o'ring under the rocker, T4 does not.

Thanks guy, this place rocks (no pun intended)!

What needs to be done to fit the 911 swivel adjusters? Is it the sort of thing one can do at home or do you need a full machine shop and 40yrs experience?

How hard is it to reface the adjuster screws, with grinding and polishing wheels?

Thanks again

-Pete

Brad, I don't know who did the work (PO had it done).

it looks to me like the rockers were not replaced on the shaft in the correct locations, maybe two were switched. I know there are some with a steeper angle than others. Or maybe it was replaced with the wrong angle one. Sure seems too far off the valve.



but I've been wrong before.

Pete,

You would need to locate the 1.7 rockers and use them on the engine (if you want to use the swivel feet setup).

The 1.7's use a smaller diameter adjuster (same size as the 911 swivel foot adjuster).

If you have a grinder and set of calipers (measuring..not brake calipers..lol) you can modify the rockers. It just wont be pretty.



B

This will help a bit:

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.ph...der=asc&start=0

Sounds like the 911 adjusters are the way to go. It does not sound that hard to do, but what about the “geometry”? How do you check that? Can I count on the flatness of the head, i.e. if I take .060 off the rocker and us a .060 shim every thing will be hunky dory or do I need to measure something or other.

Thanks

-Pete

Per the link, what is the value of the solid spacers for a street driven car?

When I looked at mine, a stock 2.0 with cam, I would need longer pushrods. You can get uncut steel Type 1 pushrods from a bug shop or on-line (AC.net, etc.).

The geometry should be the same as stock, on your old set run the adjuster to the middle and look at the angle on a head, this is what you want once yours are done.

Solid spacers have been done for ages on Type 1's the wavy washers can break on hipo engines. Good idea if you plan to screem it. These spacers are stock on bus hydro cam engines '78 to '83 1/2.

Rich... I wouldnt go to the trouble of installing these on a stock/mild street engine. Something over .475 lift..I would use them.


B

Do not re-surface the adjusting lugs. They are surface hardened, and the underlying metal is relatively soft. Get new ones if yours are damaged or deformed or pitted in any way at all.

When bolting down the rocker stands, set each cylinder up at TDC then tighten the mounting nuts. The torque spec for those guys is only 10 lb-ft, and you can't even get the rocker stand all the way down onto the head at 10 lb-ft if one of the valves is open!!

The rocker arm studs are specific to the Type IV motor. Home Depot studs will not work.

--DD

How about: if I cleaned some up last night with a file ?? DOH !! I was under the impression that the whole thing was hardened (some old machinist guy told me that). Easy enough to change. I didnt remove a whole bunch of material.. just went over them 3-4 times with a file.


B

Dunno how much is too much. They're not hardened all the way through, though. Just check how fast they wear when they get one tiny little pit in them...

My own inclination is just to replace 'em. But then, I don't have to pay retail price for 'em...

--DD

Ok, here's Brad talking about keeping the rockers on the same cylinder you remove them from and making me feel nervous about how I just dumped everything in a box. Are the rockers matched to each cylinder or what?

They're not matched. You just have to keep the intakes and the exhausts from being swapped, which shouldn't be too hard.
What I want to know is: Are new rocker shafts available?

Chris,
Rocker shafts don't show up as NLA on the Porsche Classic database or on Paul's 914 parts pricer.


I've been looking for a set but I haven't found anybody listing them so I went ahead and bought some bus rocker assys at the last Cinci swap meet. Try Pelican?

Didn't show on Stoddards list either.

Ken

OK I went and read the shoptalk forum and now I am fully confused. To use the 911 rocker adjusters you must grind .060 off the bottom of the rocker face at the adjuster (no problem I can do that), but then it all gets fuzzy. This seems to trigger a host of other mods. Different push rods, shims... I am lost!~

What exactly is involved to add the 911 adjusters (if shims are not the RIGHT way to do it than what is)?

Several of my adjusters need to be replaced so I don't mind the $60, but I don't think I want to get involved with pulling the heads. (I just put them on).

This whole rocker mess is one of the last major obstacles in my engine build. I bought the 8mm studs and solid spacers today, and I have a complete set of 1.7 rockers (a set of reg. 2.0’s as well), help!!

-Pete

Pete,

run the stock stuff. Unless your building a engine with a camshaft with alot more lift than stock.. you dont really "need" the 911 swivel feet setup. You "need" them when you start stressing the valve train with big springs and big valves.


B

OK, thanks Brad.., everybody.

stock it is

-Pete

looking again at your picture, it appears the rocker in question is bentnear the pivot. why don't you try the other rockers on this side to see if it makes a difference.

Try bending one sometime. They are quite hard.

They usually snap right at the oil passage area that runs thru the thin part of the rocker.

B