Optima or not? if so, which one? My 914 is a garage queen, but when I want to go I want to go.

Problem is - how are these batteries accepted by the judging masses?

Those of you who are regular/perodic judges - what's your take? I'm so sealed in originality that I'm not sure how I feel, even if it doesmake sense.

Opine your hearts out!
Pat

Pat,
I've always put an Interstate battery in mine. I peel off the labels and you can't tell what kind it is. Never heard any negative feedback from the judges.

My opinion on the Optima is that there is no mistaking it for what it is.........an Optima. Nothing particularly wrong with that except it just doesn't look period correct in a '14. I even think the Bosch batteries look a little overpowering with the big BOSCH painted on the side.

Dave

Pat,
Generally, Optima's are almost twice the price of conventional. Since your car is a "garage queen", you should check the shelf life of an Optima when not being used. Can you keep it on a constant trickle charge? I don't know. Ask a dealer rep.
I stick with the conventional's. Don't worry about the opinion of judges at shows. Do what's best for your investment.

Don

Hi Pat>>> Will love to answer the call on this one for yah..
Yah Gottah Figure that these cars had to have a German Battery from the factory..
You best would know this..
OK...In my Quest to have (someday) the Mega Restored OEM 914...
I got lucky bout 6 years ago doing a lighting job at a wholesale battery
mfr warehouse...Up on the ladder low n behold..I see Porsche Batteries on the
shelf!!!!!!!
So I got to trade out part of the bill for an EXACT match 914 battery..
WITH THE PORSCHE STICKER ON IT !!!
Of which we had to take a heat gun and reverse the label....
Anyway>>>> The plastic cover for the top along with that rubber
large circular 'band'
that holds it..
FITS PERFECT...FITS IN THE TRAY PERFECT!!!
THE POSTS ARE ON THE CORRECT SIDES!!
Here are the #'s yah need..
Douglas Battery Mfr'ing
Porsche Part # 999.611.036.07
Made in Germany
Drawback is only 300CCA..
So if outside in REALLY cold weather could pose a problem..
Mine died due to non useage..
So Try Stoddard or????I do need to find another..
Have not been back there since, due to Mngmnt changes..
Lemmeno what is up...Thanx

Buy the optima for use, it will prevent damaging acid from hurting the paint and meatl, and that will hurt show points! My experience is that Optimas can hold a charge a long long time, i have 6-7 year old optimas still cranking my car, and some have sat unused for a year. A regular batter would be dead with that abuse. the price is double of the elcheapo batteries, but only 50% more thant eh higher end 'wet" batteries, the longer life of the optima makes it come out about the same price per year of use.

If you really want period correct, then bay a battery, working or not that is correct,a nd swap it out with the optima at each show, jsut be sure to wipe all that nasty sulfuric acid off.

I love the optimas, as you can probably tell. they are so nice.

yeah you could also maybe get period correct tires, with a 30 year old date code on them, (too be totally correct) how ever they will most likely be leaky, and cracked, just like a 30 year old battery would be. Might or might not win the show, but you wouldn't want to drive with them, correct or not.

You just cant beat the optima design, it seem=s just made for the 914 poor battery location issue
The price is not that bad considering how long mine have lasted.

I totally agree with the above.

Pat, for a near perfect looking factory replacement, take your battery cover down to you local FLAPS and find one that it fits. I have an AutoZone battery that is the perfect size, and had easily removeable decals on the case. With the battery cover you cannot tell it apart from factory. if you want the Porsche decal, as I have stated prior, you can have them made for next to nothing - especially if they are the paper backed decal - you can do those on your home computer.

For our Healey, TF, Morris and Jag, we use these:

http://www.tartopper.com/

Scott,
Interesting, to say the least. As most of you know, the appearance of oiginalty is paramount w/me. Mt last battery was a Pep Boys, but it only last 4 years. Removed the labels, etc. It was made by Douglas at the time. Dead. Fused cells.

My original battery was a Deta (not Bosch) & it lasted 7-8 years. Followed by a J C Penney "guaranteed forever" battery that last 3 years. By the Penney had sold the warranties to Firestone and ......

What I'd REALLY like is another "blank" battery from wherever & "DETA" decals to fit. That would be a killer!

To me this is an area where technology trumps originality. A sealed battery helps prevent the leakage that has burned holes through many a hell hole. The fuel lines are also under the battery - an even better reason to use a sealed battery.

Hawker Odyssey batteries are more square looking if you want to avoid the orbital look of the Optima.

Another solution would be to buy one of the battery covers that the American hot rodders use. They put a new battery under a vintage looking cover.

http://www.tartopper.com/

Did original 914 batteries have fill caps?

Anthony,

Yeah, they did have fill caps. You can imagine the contortions needed to fill one of these without overflow onto precious painwork. Almost impossible to attain.

But I've yet to have a supposed unvented battery that didn't need to have the tops removed for fresh water on a periodic basis, and it's always been messy.

Batteries have always been my biggest bitch with 914's. Doesn't matter where they are relocated to, you will still have problems. Now, I've been hearing that the Optimas have been know to "spill their guts".

I'm going to stay with old school. Just like my dual batteries for my 73 911T, I can get them from Interstate & peel off the label.

Anyone know whateve became of DETA batteries? That's what almost all of had in the early 914's. Someone snap them up, or do they still exist (doubtful, these days)?

Had an Optima for my 76 914 2.0 back in the 80's. Somehow, when it died after about 5 years, I lost track of how to buy a new one. When I put a conventional "never add water" battery, my tray and battery corner of the car finally began to rust. I had a daily driver original CA car and used it from 83 until 86 EVERY day in rain, snow, ice, what-have-you in New York.

I'm looking for another 914 now and hope to throw an Optima in again. If I ever was serious about a concours, I'd probably spring for a second show battery...

biz

When I talked to Ed Mayo about his Parade winning 72 911 S, he said that the judges will not mark off for an optima. They feel that the preservation of the chassis is more important than the easily changed battery.


They also don't mark off for carrera chain tensioners on an early 911 or 914/6 either. Another of the "preservation" things.

Clay,
Good to know. Sounds intelligent!
I know that if you a a 911E/S with hydro suspension, they will also not reduce points for retro conversion to "normal" front suspension. This was one of those major mistakes Porsche made. So, retrograding is more than accepted.

I'm sold - going to Optima. Yellow or Red top?

Interstate has a line of sealed VRLA batteries (what an optima is) but they're rectangular and black. I'm not sure about fitment or terminal placement, but the shape is right. Might be worth a look. They're deep cycle, but would probably be fine for starting duty of a type 4. I think they're sold as wheelchair batteries.

I wish there were an "official" answer for the sealed battery choice in a 914. I've also heard that Odyssey was the better choice but with no real explanation. I'm not sure about the terminals being normal or "reversed" either?

My understanding is:

Reds are for starting and do not like to be down more than 20% to 30% on power. (Shortens life of the battery)

If you have alot of accessories like a big audio system (probably not an issue in this forum) or store your car and the battery is not maintained on a trickle charger then consider a yellow.

http://www.optimabatteries.com/publish/opt...automotive.html

Basically if your battery is not being maintained fully charged then go with yellow.

Yes, do what Ed and Clay said. The Optima is a great investment. Your car will last MUCH longer! I'd suggest the red top. It has much higher CCA. I disconnect the battery each winter and the Optima Red will still crank the car fine in the spring when I hook it up again.

There used to be an orange top, that was like a red, but terminals reversed. Sadly, not enough of us bought them...

Betty's car has an orange top in it. It makes her happy that it matches the car.

I talked to the Optima rep. They can rebuild them if they ever go out, but it will cost as much as a new battery, and take longer. For her car, I will probably get the orange top rebuilt.

I run Optima in my Carrera and the problem is if you do not use it cannot be recharged over and over. I have killed off a battery in less than one ½ year with just 4 recharging. I put it on a battery mender and it is always is fully charged every time I come into the garage to drive. If you let your car sit with out running it for a few months you need the trickle charger. The battery minder has worked great and I have not killed off any more orange tops. You have to check on orange verses the red top but I killed one off and they would not cover it under the warranty at all. They give you a little male female plus for easy on / off so it is easy to take it for a ride. For a guy like me it is the only way. Same with my Yacht. If I do not go down there for 8 weeks all the power is toped off by a shore computer battery minder. They are not much $40. on Ebay.

Bob

, it's what came in mine. Milky white, semi-transparant plastic with DETA on the side. Started leaking onto the battery tray at the factory . Got a red top Optima now & don't care what anyone says or thinks... it works & doesn't leak. Would be nice if it was orange!

Is there a different hold-down clamp? Something about a difference in thickness?

Are the terminals on the Optima reversed? Do I have to change the wiring?

Which size Optima is for the 914?

And finally, what about a quick disconnect kit for the positive terminal?

Paul

I though this was pretty well known on this site but I'll repeat.......

if you decide on the Red top, order the 34R. The 34R has the terminals in the correct position for the 914. NSN: 6140 01 475 9357

I'm also told that a lot of people use the group 78 adapter to secure the battery to the tray.

By the way I've always used a regular battery in all my 914's except my race cars but I will probably go with the red top for the M471 car.

My new car pics from Brad Mayeur are an advertisement for the Optima battery, as far as I'm concerned!

Paul

I just learned something about Optima batteries. I purchased my Optima about 3-years ago (Red-Top 34-R) and it's dead as in real dead. I put it on my battery charger using a 10 amp charge & it will not take a charge. I took it to the battery dealer who sells Optima and he is doing a 60-amp deep charge to shock it back to life. He called me on the phone & said it will probably take a charge now & will keep it on the 60-amp deep charge for about 4-plus hrs. to bring it back to life. He said I can pick it up tomorrow & suggested I buy a trickle charger to maintain it due to long periods of sitting. He is charging me $5 bucks for the charge & better than the $130.90 cost of a new one.

T

Hmmm! Beginning to think tha conventional is the way for me. Always get 5-7 years out of one. No tray or hell hole problems ever, & the car was autocrossed t least 100 times! What am I doing right?
Pat

I ran into the same problem w/ the LE & my truck. I think it's the design of the cell... it's meant for daily driving. I plopped battery tenders onto both & have had no problems since. I found it astonishing that the load of my VDO clock would drain it completely in one month (she has 47.5k miles for a reason). It does & w/out the battery tender I'd be buying a new battery every month. Bought 3 battery tenders on eBay for $12.95 each.

Well, I've decided to stay with conventional (wish I could find a DETA). Most all the conventional batteries are made in 2 or 3 plants in this country & "badged" appropriately. I'll simply remove any marking, since they're peel off & go with generic.

Over 35 years I've had next to no battery acid spills, yet the car was autocrossed at least 50 times.

I'm going with what I know, probably from Manny, Moe & Jack (FLAPS here). As soon as the car comes down to floor.
Pat

Wet cell battery emit acid vapour (they have vents) that when washed by rain or car washing leach and attack the painted metal..

Gel batteries don't do that...pretty simple.

Hey Geoff,

Help me understand something. And, I'm NOT trying to be a wiseass here, just have enough knowledge of chemistry to be dangerous (heck, I still use asbestos brake pads)

A conventional (wet cell) battery on todays market is generally of the "sealed" variey. My understanding is that the O2, lead oxide & H2SO4 vapors are "supposed" to be recycled within the case.

Is a gel battery doing anything differently? The same chemicals are involved, so what becomes of the residuals?

Strikes me like the difference between the early battery covers & the "campaign" (Audi, chopped up) cover. The earlt one kept the cable tops clean, but allowed the bad stuff to be released. The campaign cover simply allowed it to condense around the lips of the cover & drain onto the battery tray, which is why I never kept it.

Seems to me, if you don't overfill a wet cell, keep it clamped down, and minimally autocross/race - you shouldn't have too many problems. If so, why is my hellhole good as new, as well as my battery tray (not QUITE good as new, but close).

Someone please "sell" me on gel batteries, because the short life doesn't seem worth it to me.
Pat

Pat- the only real rust that ever occurred onto my LE was from that POS original DETA. My tray is no longer original because of it. Porsche now specifically provides those yellow pads to plop under the battery to neutralize the acid that flows out of wet cells. I think it's time to face the fact that you got very lucky w/ your teener. I suspect you must have cleaned her, everywhere & very regularly . I know exactly what you want... it does not exist & I too wish it did. We want Optima to build a battery for the Teener; a gel cel in a clear, milky white plastic box that says DETA in big red letters on one side ! Be nice if it had a cord hanging down from it so you could just reach up with an extension cord, plug her in & be done.

At your request. On my soapbox:

IMHO AGM (Optima is one brand) batteries are vastly superior to "maintenance free" batteries. Soon everyone will be using AGM batteries.

"Maintenance free" batteries will vent anhydrous sulfuric acid into your 914 engine bay when ever they are charging. Add water and and you have sulfuric acid in your engine bay. If you overcharge one you may have sulfuric acid spewing all over.

AGM batteries do not normally vent sulfuric acid, even when charging. Overcharge one and you may vent sulfuric acid, you may even have sulfuric acid spewing all over.

So, buy a AGM and do not overcharge your batteries.

AGM batteries, in general, like to be stored at full charge, and have superior perfromance to comparable conventional batteries, including "maintenance free". Superior perfromance includes more cranking amps and longer life if kept near full charge.

Optima also has the YELLOW TOP, which is an AGM battery that has similar performance to a conventional battery and withstands repeated discharging better than a Red Top. Life appears to be similar to a conventional battery if abused in such a manner.

If discharges will be common you need a deep cycle battery. The Optima AGM battery in this category is a Blue Top.

So I recommend getting a Red Top and keeping it charged by driving the car, a battery maintainer, or just throwing a good charger on it every couple of months. Or getting a YELLOW TOP.


Excerpt from Lead acid hazard assessment webpage

We often hear -"Oh we don?t need to worry about those batteries - they are maintenance free and leak-proof too!" The person in question here may be referring to a VRLA or Valve-Regulated Lead Acid battery. They could also be referring to a "gell-cell" or gelled electrolyte battery; possibly an Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) battery or absorbed electrolyte battery. These common and erroneous, assumptions about maintenance requirements and leakage could lead to a disaster.

All of these battery types feature a sealed case; however, the physics of how each battery functions is significantly different. Valve-Regulated batteries are a type of sealed battery that, as the name implies, regulate the expulsion of excess hydrogen gas through a one-way valve or vent. VRLA batteries are often called captured electrolyte or capture mat batteries, they are sometimes called recombination type batteries. These names are indicative of the internal physics of the battery while the terms "vented" and "valve regulated" refer specifically to the mechanical device allowing the battery to expel excess gas.

VRLA batteries can contain significant amounts of sulfuric acid and they do vent explosive hydrogen gas. Worse still, they are very sensitive to temperature and charge rate. If overcharged, VRLA batteries can go into internal thermal runaway and explode. Additionally, some case swelling is considered "normal" though excessive case swelling may indicate trouble. All this information can be confusing - suspect battery plants should be surveyed by a professional battery technician.

Gell-cell batteries are a sealed case type of battery which recombine the hydrogen formed in the recharging process with free oxygen to form water which, in turn, keeps the cell "wet" or hydrated. The term "maintenance free" was coined by battery manufacturers in order to market recombination type batteries. Don?t be fooled!

Off soapbox.

Matt,

Appreciate the soapbox - really!

Just a little background here.

I've owned my 914 for 35 years. First 2 years it was a daily driver - racked up 48K miles! Now, 33 years later, the car is a hardcore garge queen, waiting for significant events to show at. During those 33 "off - road" years, it has been autocrossed at least 50 times, with a wet cell battery in the tray. Yep, I've had some minor (any I mean VERY minor) "events", causing a couple of acid vapor-related fadings in the paint. Wiped 'em down with backing soda & used rubbing compound to bring back the color (by the way, these happened 20+ years ago).

I don't autocross anymore because I'm 100% stock & can no longer comepete with 2 liter cars. So, "sloshing" & overcharging are not really concerns. The primary concern is the look of originality, and the Optima types are not going to provide that. Plus, they need continual charging - not relevant for me. Not saying they aren't the right thing for others.

Johnny Blackstain's comments are right on for us CW's. Make a gel batt that looks like a wet batt & we'll beat a path to it - all 10 of us. That's why we'll never see such a thing. In the mean time, I'll stick with wet cell tech. They typically last me 5-6 years & I can peel the labels of & make them appear generic.
Pat

You asked someone to "sell" you on AGM/gel batteries and I tried. I figured you are a lost cause . I mean just between you and me, performance isn't the real issue is it

IMHO you haven't had much trouble using conventional batteries because .... well you are a CW. I suspect you have strong attention to detail and have the knowledge and dicipline to perform routine maintenance. You probably even keep your rain tray on.

BTW- If you don't go with an AGM/gel you need your rain tray. Anhydrous acid (acid without water) will be all over the top of your battery. Add rain and acid will be running down the suspension console.

I understand the choices you CW guys make and for the 10 of you who are 9 to 10/10 CW and have the dicipline to maintain it properly, I think you make the right choice. But for the guys who think they are going to be CW.... well acid will be attacking the infamous hell hole. Remember you need to neutralize the acid around the battery regularly even if there is no sign of damage.

I have seen AGM batteries in a square cover at American Muscle concourse events. I don't think they look right either.

Also, My red top holds a charge for a long time if I disconnect it. My car has a fault so it will discharge a battery in about a day if connected. Proof, I lack the dicipline to run a conventional. I have completely drained two Optima red tops dead twice, severly depleted one of those several other times. Both are working well right now and holding charge.

I don't think red tops require any more diligance than a conventional battery. Just once a red top sulfates, I think it is much more difficult to bring it back. And in reality at that point your battery is on borrowed time anyway.

& don't care about originality to the point of risking the car. I will never put a wet cell in that car again. Unfortunately, my six came w/ a brand new wet battery but it's been relocated to the front trunk & has a disconnect knob. So far so good up front. I've found that batteries in general do very well disconnected & kept from freezing. Best thing to do w/ a motorcycle battery for instance, is to take it out & put it inside for the winter while the bike stays in the cold garage. Wet or dry just take it out & put it inside... it will last much much longer. Also never store your battery on the ground; won't matter if it's warm, dry & disconnected... the ground will suck the charge right out. Put it on top of a block of wood if you have to use the ground floor.

[Also never store your battery on the ground; won't matter if it's warm, dry & disconnected... the ground will suck the charge right out. Put it on top of a block of wood if you have to use the ground floor.]

So how is that electrically different than bolting it to a sheet of grounded steel in your car?

That OLD wives tale is just that. OLD! Although the wood could keep your floor from getting stained, or maybe keep the battery from freezing, but a clean batt on dry earth, cement, whatever will NOT discharge unless it has an internal short.

Have you ever seen one of the wet cells from a turn-of-last-century electric car? With a case made of wood and tar they leaked so bad that the acid would make conductive paths all over the outside of the case. so putting one of those on the ground WOULD discharge it in a hurry. Modern batteries? No Way!

Old wives tale or not my 34R does not fit quite right... there are stubs on the ends that made it a hair too long to fit onto the tray properly. Anyone else have at battery sitting @ an angle? I Dremeled the stubs off the backside & now the battery fits like a dream.

I started this topic almost a year ago. Aparently, without thinking.

The purpose of this forum is to further originality. With that in mind, original quality wet-cell batteries are still available. Oiginal! Must have had abrain fart when I brought it up.

Try as we may, and modify as we may to make an Optima look correct in a 914 - it ain't gonna happen.

Good points - bad points? Don't matter - it will never be original.

So, for those reasons, and since I'm the Moderator of this forum - this topic is closed! Beat me for staring it, but I was....."disposed".

Don't get me wrong, this is a good topic - just not for this Forum. Take it to the Garage.

Sorry
Pat