I saw these pictures at http://www.mulsannescorner.com/news.html

another

another

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And Peogeot showed their new Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment
diesel powered LMP1.

If the factory team can't beat the Audis, why bother? The Cap'n

My first attempt at attaching multiple photos. What did I do wrong?

You posted a picture of a Peugeot. This is an automotive forum...

Honda will wax that ass. I don't get why Porsche wants to play in the kiddie pool. Move over Audi, bring back the champions. Maybe they will show up and run some races this year.

And THEY bitched about Porsche using 3 digit names with a zero in the middle? They're using the name of one of the most successful racing cars in history!

That's not a 908. THIS is a 908!

http://www.earthflix.com/stories/908_3.php

The Cap'n, back from vacation ................

Audi is strong right now, people will catch them. But the R8 was a serious effort and the R10 is even better. Porsche needs to get the GT3 n GT2 out based on the 997 - that should put them back up top. But right now they really have old tech on the track. Next year that changes.....

I would love to see a Caymann in the Lemans series, thou I doubt it will happen. They learned to much from our little car, and realize the mid-engine layout will kick I just really want to see a modren GT Caymann. It might just be me

Me likes da big black go-cart.

my guess is that Porsche doesn't want to go head to head with Audi
too close to home

OH BS!! I've said it before and I'll say it again. Porsche is NOT playing in the 'kiddie pool'. They're going for the big cheese! They've proven over and over that they can make mad HP out of small engines, and that combined with a lighter car gives them a killer combination. Is it enough? Who knows. Audi's really good these past years. But two things are for sure. 1) Porsche never enters a racing effort half-assed, and 2)If they can be dominant overall with a "lower class" car (they're already competitive), that's going to boost their racing legacy rediculously.
Mark D.

Take a close look at Porsche's racing history after they started winning LeMans outright. They rarely enter a series unless they know they have a legit shot at winning it all. Porsche doesn't have the financial resources that Audi has and can't afford to do on-track development while losing races until they get it right. Maybe they know they can't compete in LMP1 until they get some development time winning LMP2 for a while.

only my opinion....

Dion

What makes the 996 GT3 RSR old tech? And what makes the 997 GT3 RSR high tech?

"kiddie pool"? Porsche won overall at Mid-Ohio this year against the LMP1 Audi

"Porsche doesn't have the financial resources that Audi has"? They're freakin' BUYING a substantial interest in VW/Audi Group! Porsche has more money than (pick your deity)! They proudly profess to be the most profitable car company in the world. The Cap'n

LMP2 is a different class than LMP1, Porsche is not competing with Audi.

BTW, I've heard rumors over and over that Porsche had a rather large hand in designing the chassis of the R8 (which was used to develop the R10), maybe they have a no-competition clause. Who knows?

How did Peugot design such a nice looking race car? I'll bet they hired a German to pen the shape!

I think Porsche could, if they wanted to invest the $$ put together an R10 beating car. But why? Audi and Porsche are very similar (atleast from a home turf standpoint) and they even trade designs back and forth.

Wasn't there something about the fact that Porsche didn't want to develop diesel engines, which kinda outs them from LMP1.

Well yes and no. Audi took the R10 in France for the 24 Hours at Le Mans. It was last years R8 Audi ran in Ohio. Once the R10s returned from Le Mans they were back to their winning ways.

Clearly the RS Spyder is the class of the field in LM2.

to the few of you that have made comments like "Porsche doesn't go racing unless they plan to win..."

BS, remember what happened when Porsche desided it wanted to try indy racing...

They got trout smacked upside the head, and went away like a freshly beaten puppy

BJ(damn 2 types of meat in one metaphore.. must be hungry)H

Very true, tho they had a distinct disadvantage in Indy. The 6cylinder engines (turboed too IIRC) were in an entire class of their own with pretty disdvantagous rules for Porche. As a factory they never even started the season did they?

greggrobbins,

A overall win, is still a overall win! They beat the audi that took the win at Lemans the year before, how is that any less of a win?

I agree. Audi is in LMP1, Porsche in LMP2... They are both winning. Porsche / Penske needed to develop this program and I bet it will do even better in the near future. As for Audi, I think they proved the point and will just go away... Watch for an onslaught of TDI cars coming to the US market and you will see what race they wanted to win...

They beat the retired guys, not the first string. THAT'S why it's less of a win. Kinda like beating the JVs who are playing because the varsity team bus broke down on the way to the game. The Cap'n

The Audi R8 LMP1 that was beaten by the Porsche LMP2 first competed 7 years ago. They won Lemans in 2000, 01, 02, 04, 05. In 03 an R8 dressed up as a Bentley LMP1 won Lemans. The R8 won Sebring from 2000 to 2005 as well as the ALMS championships for those years.

But the R8 is now seven years old, very old for a racing car, the Porsche LMP2 is only one. Technology changes. The Porsche beat them at Mid-Ohio, a short track where braking and handling could overcome horsepower.

Now the new R10 diesel has arrived. It wins Sebring and Lemans in 2006, as well as the other races it has entered. Another steamroller performance. Ho-hum.

I'm rooting for the SR9 Radical effort. They are attracting some good drivers too.
Colin McRae is currently getting seat time in one of these cars with rumors he may join up with a Radical Team and drive one next year in the Le Mans series.

crazy, Porsche went indy racing and during testing was setting lap records. The powers that be (unser or andretti, maybe both can't remember for sure) bitched and threatened to pull out of indy racing.
The rules were changed and the maximum allowable bllsot was reduced. Porsche still was testing fast enough to win poles. same thing happened again, they lowered the max boost levels for a second time.
Porsche was pissed, their car was handicapped so it couldn't beat the established teams, so Porsche said he heck with it.
The details are a little fuzzy but that's basically what happened.
I'll see if I can find the whole story. It's in one of my books but I might be able to find it on-line.

OK, here's something that tells the story with only minor differences. I found it on 962.com

1980 Porsche Indy Car ::

It was to have been Porsche's triumphant return to open wheel motor racing. Throughout the winter of 1978-1979, Porsche discussions about Indy became increasingly focused and by late summer 1979 an agreement had been reached for Porsche to enter Indy in 1980 with Interscope as its team of choice.

The engine used for this effort was a direct descendent of the 2.65 liter engine used in the 935/75 (and later used in the all-conquering 956). Producing more than 800 horsepower, the new Porsche was apparently more than the equal of the Cosworth's that were dominant at the time. In fact, A.J. Foyt and others were so concerned they began lobbying heavily to have the allowable boost for the Porsche reduced from 54 to 48 inches.

USAC, embroiled in the politically intense split with CART, was not eager to lose their only remaining 'star' and finally succumbed to the pressure. In late March, they issued a technical bulletin breaking their previous agreement and limiting the Porsche powerplant to 48 inches of boost. With less than a month remaining before the start of practice for the 500, Porsche's response was quick. In a terse, one page press release, the company announced that it was canceling its Indy program.

Alas, outside of Porsche's engineers, Ongais and the Interscope team, no one (except, perhaps, for the rumored spies from the Penske and other teams) had ever seen the Porsche on the track where it was said to have been spectacular - breaking numerous track records including the Ontario Motor Speedway (a near duplicate of Indiannapolis).

The Porsche Indy is now undergoing a 100 point restoration at Gunnar racing and in 2002 will finally be allowed to run before the motorsports public.

View 1979 Autoweek Article >>>
View September 2002 Porsche Panorama Article >>>

Technical Specifications:

Chassis: Aluminum monocoque.

Engine: 2.65 litre, air cooled cylinders and water cooled heads, six cylinder boxer. Four valves per cylinder. Over 800 bhp.

Transmission: 4 speeds plus reverse. Straight-cut non-synchronized gears.

Brakes: Vented dual circuit discs with dual calipers.

Performance: Top Speed - over 240 miles per hour.




Available for purchase: $695,000 USD

Contact 962.com

here's more, written by Bruce Anderson:

For 1980 Porsche AG was planning to go Indy racing with the US. Interscope racing team. The engine for this car was a 2650-cc development of the four valve water-cooled-head engines used in the 936 and Moby Dick in 1978. Porsche, as it turned out, attempted to enter championship cars racing at the wrong time in history, right in the middle of the USAC and CART feud, and the rules for Indy racing changed right out from under them. Porsche had been told that with their six-cylinder engines that they would be allowed to run with a turbo boost of 54 inches of mercury. At the last minute the turbo boost requirements were changed to 48 inches, the same as for the V8 engined cars. Porsche felt that with this last minute change, they did not have time to comply and they probably could not be competitive with the eight cylinder, turbocharged engines and withdrew. Porsche was beaten before they started, not on the track but at the conference room table.

Porsche didn't let the engine they had designed for the Indy car go to waste though. For 1981, on Peter Schutz, Porsche's managing director's, orders, they dragged the 936s out of the museum once more and updated them to comply with the liberalized Group 6 rules by installing the Indy version of the engine in them. The Indy engine was converted to gasoline and used twin turbochargers for a power output of 620 horsepower. This combination won Le Mans for Porsche for the sixth time in 1981.

Thank you, that's where I was going with my earlier comments. Porsche couldn't win with the new rules, so they pulled the plug.

My point about Porsche's finances....I know they are profitable, but that doesn't mean they have a small mountain of cash sitting around to fund whatever racing venture they want. They have to strategically invest their racing dollars for maximum benefit. There is a difference. It takes Porsche more resources as a percentage of overall car sales to fund a new car, and hence less money for racing.

And if you must know, Porsche's net profit for the first half of 2006 was $202M vs. Audi's net profit for the same period coming in at $520M. Although Porsche owns 25% of VW, it doesn't mean it has more money than VW. It just means it wants to control VW's fate. Instead of dumping money into an LMP1 car, it dumped it's available cash into VW stock.

Hey, I'm as big a Porsche racing fan as anyone on this list, but facts are facts. And as far as Porsche's win at Mid-Ohio, I was there, and Audi definitely had their 'B' team on track and in the pits. Wish I were part of that B team....

again, just my opinion.

Dion

Guys don't get me wrong, I love Porsche, but they have done some dumb stuff lately. The RS spyder shows up with gear box problems and it only runs a few races to boot.

Back in the day Porsche showed up and dominated. They did their homework and usually came prepared. But Porsche spent nearly every dime they had to win. The new POrsche management team is a little more competent and henceforth we see the toe testing of professional racing again. Porsche wants to make money, because that is what allows them to stay alive and independent. I would be so bold as to say Porsche is one of the best engineering firms in the world, bar none. But they are also in business to make money. Racing really doesn't make Porsche money, so they have very little interest in expending the dollars to make a successful race effort happen.

I would also bet that the LMP2 expedition is a deal worked with upper management. If Porsche would get back into racing they would only be allowed so much money to work with and LMP 2 was the class they could "afford" to go racing in.

I am pretty disappointed in how POrsche ran the season, but maybe they will make something really happen when Honda/Acura shows up.

That couldnt be further from the truth. Porsche is the only team in Grand Am that charges its customers for the engine. Its also the most expensive engine in Grand Am.

I cant really go on with numbers and specifics, but racing for Porsche isnt just for fun. Porsche Motorsports North America just doubled their facilities. Weissach just got all new facilities. This was an expensive transition, but they were able to justify the cost with the money made purely in motorsports.

Personally I cant see why people think the honda is going to be anything. Its going in a Lola chassis, which is a losing piece of crap. Their engine cant be that much better then the Porsche to make up for the chassis. The ECO is very strict with their restrictions. The chassis makes a winning team.

Maybe Porsche wants to beat Audi's LMP1 cars with overall wins in LMP2 cars. That way they're not in direct competition with their neighbor, but still kicking their asses even with a disadvantage. This would be quite an interesting controversy in my opinion.

1st and 2nd at Petit Lemans! I still think there is a chance for the Spyder in P1.

Roger checking out the winning car...

the Audi team did have another unfair advantage...

Matt you are absolute right, I didn't take into account the fact that PMS is not "sponsoring" drivers. They do make money on the customer side of racing. That is for the most part why Porsche has not had a factory team for many years. All of the racing they have done is through private teams.