No I didn't clean the threads before using blue loc-tite.

When they go on again they are getting safety wire. Period.

You can see the broken starter mount tab, broken CV bolt, and broken rear shift bar guide.

The other CV adaptor was on it's way off as you can see.

Do yourself a favor and check yours regularly.

Roger

Ouch

I have had this thought more than once:


Drive shaft loops are a good thing!

just one of my thoughts......

Mike Wills was just there with 'ya.

Safty wire for me from now on. It's cheap insurance.

Mike, I'll take five sets for stock.

So there's a plate between the CV joint and the output flange, right? And the bolts appear to be countersunk, right?The CV joint bolts themselves appear to be tight, right? Howya gonna safety wire the countersunk bolts? Am I missing something? While you can easily safety the CV joint bolts, they're not the ones that came loose, so what's the purpose of wiring them? It would seem to me that you could engineer the adapter so the bolts tightened flush with the surface to which the CV joint seats. If they're flush when torqued, then they CAN'T back out. End of problem. The Cap'n

Hey Joe,
PM me and I can hook you up I need to make them up as I donated my last few to the FFC

Mike....how do you wire the inside bolts? (CV to sub axel).....When mine came loose it was them.

Hey Bruce,

I actually do not as it requires that you remove the stub axle (almost always destroying the bearing) and those hardly ever come loose in my experience.

So basically you need to remove the stub axle, bolt it to the CV and wire the bolts, reinstall the stub axle assembly. If you can wire it with the CV still instaleld in the arm on the stub, then you ARE a 914 stud!

its not a loc-tite issue.

I interestingly heard about a new tip last friday that cures this problem
the story goes that the 300hp race cars were having these come loose more than 1x per a day.

the problem is the gasket.
and new gaskets that are typically used.
the gasket compresses and then the bolts come loose.

my race shop told me that they are using high temp silicone (sorry capt'n) with NO gaskets and have solved the problem now.

brant

Removing the inner stub axle doesn't destroy the rear wheel bearing, removing the outer hub does.

My dad had some of the outer (in the trailing arm) come loose on his first drive after re-assembling his car for the first time back in 84'. Since then, I have always simply cleaned all the threads or replaced the bolts and torqued them to specs. I prefer using new bolts.

Oh ya, thats right. Its been 3-4 years since I had mine apart

So, ya gotta remove the stub axle

Whats the issue? I drive my 94 12K miles a year and have for years, never had a CV bolt come loose. I torque em to spec and use the serrated washers, why do others have issues? Yep I use the stock gaskets and lube too...

You may have answered your own question.

Typically, with a bunch more HP, these loosening bolts can become an issue. I always check mine when on the lift and do replace the schorr washers each time I have the bolts out.

no offense Jeff, but my guess is that the reason you don't have an issue is due to less HP.... at 200hp it becomes a big issue. At 300hp it is a mandatory type situation.

but on a street car down to about 120hp new washers are good.

I did new washers at 150hp and still had them start to loosen.

When mine came loose it was just one side. The same side that had a wheel bearing replaced before I picked up the car. There were missing washers (i'm guessing who ever worked on it dropped some and went "don't need those little things anyway" and they never retorqued the inner ones or they weren't torqued properly. So 2500 miles later it became a nova ( no go)

I'm with Jeff. I'm at ~175 hp and never have trouble.

The worry of clean threads is incorrect. Anyone torque rod bolts dry? Case bolts? Head Bolts? A lubricated thread inceases the actual torque applied.

I've never had any come loose - street cars, track cars, 911s, 944s.

Need a set of these "we don need no stink'n adapters" output stubs. 100mm CV straight bolt-on.

Hey Mike, I need some sets of the bolts too - I'll PM you.

Jeff

And how does removing the stub axle damage the bearing? The hub remains in the bearing, the stub axle slides out of the hub. I fail to see the connection. The Cap'n

"Sorry"? Don't be. I've used RTV for that purpose for decades. As long as it has time to dry, it's perfect for the application. It's just in the engine, tranny, and body apps like windows, etc., that I wouldn't use it. The Cap'n

Brant,

I'm a little confused. Are you saying that on higher-HP cars new washers are not the way to go ? Or just that even using new washers is not enough ?

Jeff B,

When you say "serrated" washers, is that the same as the stock ones ? I seem to recall that they were smooth but wavy. Are you using something different ?


The more I hear about bolts coming loose (this seems to be the season) the more I'm leaning to welded-on adapter plates....

I'm not saying this is the case here, but in situations like this, where the reliability of the part working is related to torquing a bolt to a specific torque (and add in the use of a special drive socket), that the people who have problems often don't even own a torque wrench - they just wing it. Add in 50 to 100% more HP and the situation is a LOT more critical.

New washers, a tight-fitting star drive socket, and a good torque wrench are essential. With more HP, wire and loops make sense.

Mr. Steele,
the factory washer is actually not wavy.
its a schorr (sp) washer... aslo called serrated.
I replace mine when they are apart.
shops will NOT reuse them even one time.
(I admit that on occassion I have reused them and always am nervous and retorque them at 100miles)

my comment was more about the gaskets than the washers
I've had new washers come a little loose at 150hp.
I think racing adds a huge complication to this... the heat, the abuse, the constant on and off of full throttle.

AJRS told me that the washers come loose as a result of the gaskets.
and that as hp and load increase it becomes more of an issue.
thus they discovered that leaving the gasket out solved the problem
this is a proven solution which is track tested at 300rwhp. I'm sure those cars are using NEW washers AND leaving the gaskets out.

I don't know if Dr. Evil wants to become a washer salesman or not.
but for my race car I bought 45 new washers from him last month.
I will change the washers each time I touch the CV's when ever possible.

brant

Yup, I sell them. $.30 ea+ shipping
Its on my CV bolt link.

As stated in the post right after, I was mistaken. I forgot about the anotomy of that area as I had not messed with that part in a few years. The hub does stay in the bearing and unless the hub and stub become rusted together it is not an issue....

I have those early 911 output flanges too yet to be installed. I'm told you still need a spacer for the street because the axle is short. Spacers would allow the bolts to be easily wire tied, however...

Okay, thanks Brant. Yeah, I was there when AJ decribed his experience with the gaskets, and I sure trust his experience. I musta forgot what the stock washers look like, or else I had something non-stock.




Yeah, I carried the door prizes to RRC, and the wired CV bolt set was one of the ones I was most tempted to swipe.

i've been playing harder and harder with the new 11" rubber out back and testing traction in different situations. no doubt stressing the drivetrain much more than in the beginning. she actually powerslides in a fairly controllable way! =-)


the CV bolts are easily wired but the adaptor bolts will require cutting grooves/ channels in the adaptors to allow running wire between the bolts.

the 110mm CV 911 axles are shorter and simply swapping out the output flanges isn't enough to keep the axles/CV's centered. you need a spacer.

i appreciate you guys support. i don't often rag about $hit but i figured someone would probably benefit from my mistake.


carry on!

2007 WCC in Napa, CA. San Francisco, Lake Tahoe, Reno !!!

Hey GS Guy,

Is that the (inner) end that comes out of the tranny, or the (outer) end that slides into the hub ? Who makes it ? Cost ?

For a pic of new stock schnorr washers click my CV link in the sig line. There are close ups in there.

That's the end that fits into the differential. The splines give it away. The Cap'n

Guys,
I had those custom made up by Todd at Precision Alloy:
http://www.precisionalloy.com/
Not much web presence, but contact info there. I found Todd was very good about working things out via email.
They specialize in high-end off road gear, but apparently they do Porsche trans output stub mods on a semi-routine basis - mostly for the 108mm(?) 930 sized CV.
Todd machines off part of the original CV joint flange, then presses and welds on a chromoly part that gets finish machined to work with the CV joint of choice - in my case the 100mm T2 joints. Then it gets black-oxide coated - beautifully finished part. About $100/pair when I had mine done, a year or so ago.
Todd does these in batches, so I had to wait a few months to get them - but worth it.
Jeff

I assume the same proceedure was done to both the tranny hubs and the inner trailing arm hubs ?? Jim

Not in my case - but suppose that could be done if desired. My "not a Porsche at all" but uses a 914 trans project uses Thing/944 outer stub axles for the outer 100mm CV joint fitting.
Jeff

Those are the 6-bolt - pre-69 I believe. With the '69-73 4-bolt / 2 roll pin, axles, you can use the sporto tranny flanges and make up about half the length deficit, which is fine. I've been running this setup on the passenger side for a couple months - switching out the driver's side this weekend.