I just bought a 1973 914. I have always loved Porsches and this is my first. The engine and transmission are not in the car now so my dad and I want to take care of the little bodywork required. There is very little rust and we plan to sand it, then coat it with POR-15. Also I was thinking about coating the interior, both trunks, and the underbody with POR-15 to prevent rust in the future. Is this really a good idea, because I have heard some people say not to use undercoating on a car.

overkill ...

unless the car has tons of surface rust or exposed metal. people don't like undercaoting because it *hides* stuff ... (and it's heavy. and it's a bitch to get off) ...

btw. POR-15 over rust is a *BAD* idea!

use Metal-Ready first, then coat with POR-15 ...
Andy

PS:

Hey Hey



I used the full Por15 treatment on my tub, covered with a tinted smooth bedliner.
I realy am happy with the results, documented the proceedure for the "what you hiding" questions, when it goes up for sale next year.
My only complaint was that it ran WWWAAAAAYYYYY over budget.

Later

914s rust because of leaks and mud in places it doesn't belong-not paint failures. POR-15 is a good material, but it is expensive and very toxic. I much prefer Zero-Rust, it's MUCH cheaper and safer to spray, it's one downside is that it must be applied carefully if topcoated, if it's put on too thick it will not dry properly and will react badly with the topcoat. Two thin coats with plenty of dry time in between and after and your rust problems will be solved as long as the loose stuff is removed first. If you don't have rust in the first place and are not stripping the car to bare metal then you don't need it, but it does work well as a spot primer on bare metal.I have used both materials on dozens of cars and would never go back to POR-15, Zero-Rust is that much better.

okay thanks guys, I have never restored a car before and am unsure of what to do; I don't think I will totally coat the body now because I kind of think it will be overkill to, and also budget issues. Sometimes going to college and working part time sucks.

Andy,

When I read the POR-15 can it doesn't say anything about metal ready first.

Trivia question: Do ya know what the letters POR stand for?

If you read the literature it should tell you to do the whole process. Clean with s strong water based degreaser (thier product is called "Marine clean"), then rinse that off with water and spray it down with Metal Ready (basically eats the rust off, and etches the good metal, and then rinse that off. Then put the POR-15 paint on.

Be careful with the paint though. If you get it on your skin, it is there till that bit of skin falls off. There is nothing short of sand paper or coarse steel wool that will take it off. Also, once you open the can, use some plastic wrap between the lid and the bottle, or else the lid will fuse to the bottle and that will be that.

Even so, I had to toss 1/2 quart of paint this weekend, as it had hardened inside the bottle. Damn. I think that I am going to try the Eastwood product instead of the POR-15 this time.

One last thing, POR-15 over the entire car is overkill. but knocking the undercoating off and then painting that with it is a good idea. Also painting your hell hole and floor pans is a good idea too.

Zach

I have used the Eastwood product called Rust Encapsulator and it seems to be easier than POR 15 to work with and is not UV sensitive also the can top comes off without using a plastic shield. Time will tell how it holds up.

[/quote]
Trivia question: Do ya know what the letters POR stand for?
[/quote]


Poor Ole Rust???

Paint Over Rust

Maybe I'm not as bright as I think I am, no wait that's what my ex-wife says

POR-15® is a high-tech, high performance rust-preventive coating designed for application directly on rusted or seasoned metal surfaces. It dries to an incredible rock-hard, non-porous finish that won't chip, crack, or peel, and it prevents rust from recurring by protecting metal from further exposure to moisture. Use it to coat rusty frames, floor pans, farm equipment, marine equipment, or even a heavily corroded battery tray. POR-15® is sensitive to UV light (sun) and must be topcoated for prolonged exposure to sunlight. Topcoating is not required for areas not exposed to sunlight.

This is what I see when I ready the can:

"designed for application directly on rusted or seasoned metal surfaces"

As for Metal Ready:

" You must use Metal-Ready fi rst if you are
painting POR15 on new steel, galvanized
metal , aluminum, or any smooth metal
surface."

I believe Andy or someone did an experiment to prove using Metal Ready first is neccessary.

The problem here is that there are a lot of things that cause POR-15 not to stick. If thre is any grease or oil *at all* on the surface of the area to be painted, the POR-15 won't stick and rust will form under it. If the rusted surface is really bad, and the scale is not taken off, the POR-15 will coat the top layer. But it works by sealing oxygen from th rest of the metal. Scale makes pockets of oxygen, so the metal continues to rust under it. Also, if the steel is smooth, POR-15 won't stick really well, it needs some etching. It actually sticks better to rust then to clean steel.

It is a good, worhtwhile product. And I have just slapped it on over mild surface rust that I thought was free of oil or grease. Time will tell if it wasn't.

Eastwood did a comparison between POR-15 and thier product (so right off the bat you knwo that that it might be baised). But, on the metal they trated with POR-15, a ring appeared a month or so after it was painted. They say that they went through the entier process (marine clean, metal ready, paint) but that there was obviously some oil in the metal that worked up. It did not surface for at least a month after the paint was laid down, and it was a test run by the POR15 competition. Grain of salt, and all that.

Zach

I have used POR-15 on my Mack for over a year with no problem. I just wire brush or wheel any loose rust off, then make sure that everything is free of grease and oil. Then apply POR-15.

I used the eastwood product that was availlable in 1992-4. It was the rust encapsulator. I have not seen any bubbling anywhere including the hell hole. I am very pleased with the results. Although on my six project for convenience sake I went with what was availlable at Home Depot. That was 2+ years ago and I still haven't put a top coat on it and there is no sign of any new rust. I followed the directions on the cans before brushing on. The on thing different I may have done after sanding/ wire brushing/3M wheeling was clean well with lacquer thinner.

Oops, the Home Depot product is called Rust Destroyer.

Will the other products stick to grease or oil?

Let's open the whole can of worms!

What about Rust Bullet?

Any paint will suffer if surface prep is ignored. Grease and oil are just too greasy and oily for any paint to stick well. It will just stick to itself and not bond to the surface of your material. If you really want to deal with the rust, grind it off or try one of those new grinding/sanding wheels that are made from porous plastic stuff to get is as smooth as possible (sometimes it IS all rust down there), acid treat, sand again, and ready to paint!

The upside is, if you lay on enough POR-15 on top of a rusty tub, eventually the tub will completely rust away but the POR-15 will remain, leaving you with the only non-rusting 914 in existance!

Oh, and if you're going to all the trouble of POR-15 for the car, please don't forget to remove the old seam sealer, clean the rust out from underneith it (especially the rear trunk seal) and then redo the seam with a high quality seam sealer.

I used it on the Healey, I like it. As the directions state. We sandblasted the car inside and out, left the metal very rough. I wouldn't reccomend blasting a 914 body panel. The edges and boxed structures are fine but the Healey sheet metal is like 18 ga. and can take the heat.

I don't get the point of applying rust encapsulators to bare metal. I thought the point of the stuff was that it goes over rust.

Good question. I used Rust Bullet on the heating sheet components (flappers, J tubes etc). I used the tiny cans. I had a little difficulty getting it throughly mixed. This is a silver paint and there was always a little black streaks in the paint that wouldn't mix in. Maybe a larger can and a power mixer would have helped. This stuff went on nice. I applied it a little thick and did 2 coats. Dried as described in the correct time. Looks good for something that will never be seen. I wasn't careful about finish. Time will tell.

Mark

Always good to see another person from this bass-ackwards state

Yeah, but you have chiles. I spent a few days in Embudo in the early fall of 1993 when I picked up my 914 and I never ate so many chiles...mmm

I am not a POR-15 fanatic.

I use metal prep. Then DuPont rust killing primer. Then catalyzed Epoxy paint. (typically black for under coat)

Seems like nuthin gets past epoxy..... Works on boats that sit in our local harbor for a long time. ifn it's good enough for them And they warranty their work. it's good enough for me.

I Also use Nason and West Marine products from the local ship building supply house for rust eradication and encapsulation. kewl shit.

My second go kart i raced is still alive and living in Irvine.
(IKF reed class)

The original paint is still on it. Centauri epoxy paint. Still will past the scrtach test. Stuff is still like armor 20+ years later.

It ain't cheap. But it passes the scratch test every time.

The sratch test is the following.

Wait a week after the coating application.

Then I grab a screwdriver and try to sctratch it to metal with one good swipe of the edge of a screwdriver.
If it don't go to metal I am all good.

The last Por-15 job I was involved with...... DID NOT past the test.

NOTE: It aint a bad idea to do a test piece when using any coating.

then set the test piece next to the house. In the elements. And give it a screwdriver test a week or so later.

It is very revealing.

then again... it's all about the prep.

I always find it interesting on how many ways there are to do this rust paint,fix thing.

What works for one guy doesn't for the other.

Me thinks it's all about the prep and the proper application of the chemicals.

Me, I read the can. I do it the manufaturers way. And if that doesn't work. I do it my way. Usually my way works as well or better.

I used to own a furniture refinishing center way back when. i learned a bunch about chemical composition and how to cheat to win.

Things like humidity and heat/cold played a huge part in what worked.

retarders, accelerators, thinners, catalyst's and on and on.

Fun stuff...

practice before perfection.

Was a great experience. And a technical gift of sorts.

I always make a test piece first. THEN TEST IT.

Then I never have to guess. I KNOW what works.

regards,
Anutter nut case..

I used it because the car looked like this prior to blasting, As good as you get the open areas you'll never get the cracks and hidden spots. POR is way harder than any primer you'll ever apply. So in my case it made good sense.

Rustymetalpaint.com, a POR-15 dealer is starting to phase out POR-15 in favor of KBS Coatings products. Service rep said it's more technically advanced, or something to that effect. They're throwing in an 8oz can with my POR-15 order to try out.