Well my whole fleet of vehicles is down for the count except the crappy ass 4Runner which is in need of some 4 WD love and time I do not have. So, I am looking at getting one of those oh so cute lil 4x4s. So far the VUE and the Liberty are on the top of the list (only two cars on the list). Do any of you have experience with either? Things to look out for?

Here are the parameters for what we want:
- 4 wheel drive or AWD
- Deacent milage
- 6cyl, auto

***$14000 max***

I have noticed that the liberties are a little less and more prolific than the VUEs, but the VUEs are deacent cars form what I have heard.

All info will be welcomed. I am planning on buying one after my next test! (most expensive vehicle purchase to date )

I rented a Liberty for the week I was in Wyoming. I was very happy with it, I even took it offroading a couple times. Not REAL hardcore but it was some pretty ugly muck it went through. This was not the muck trip.

I rented a liberty in SJ to go to Sac for a conference. I remeber not hating it, but I was of the mind set that I could not afford anything so new for another 6 years so I blanked it out. All I know is that I didnt hate it (and I HATE my 4Runner)

I put somewhere around 1500-1800 miles on it that week and never had a problem. I was driving almost 800 miles per day, went to colorado clear up to Sturgis and everywhere I could in between. I'm thinking it got aroung 24 MPG but I may be remembering wrong. Regardless it was pretty decent gas mileage

Never drove the Vue but my mother in law has an '04 Liberty which I drive from time to time and have to say that I like it more than I thought I would. For the money I think its an OK car. May be a little too bouncy for some....but I drive a '97 Tacoma so the Liberty seems like a Buick to me. Worth a test drive anyway. Hers is comfortable for me to drive and she's never had it in the shop ...40+k and not even brake pads or tires yet(although I'm sure they'll be due soon). Only thing I noticed, and maybe it was just her car, was that the gas consumption seemed, how shall I say, slightly inconsistant with the sticker. HTH. YMMV.

Vue lists for their 3.0 - 20city, 26hwy

Liberty - 19city, 24hwy

These are always subjective numbers, though. Most of my driving is too and from school which is where Noel works as well so 14mi a day in stop and go "traffic" (7 lights between here and there, straight shot)

I had a 2003 Liberty limited with the 3.7 V6. I got on average 20-21mpg - lots of highway driving. Decent power. With the short wheelbase it porpoises over expansion joints on the freeway - takes a little getting used to. It has very little storage behind the seats. The seats fold down so you can haul quite a bit of stuff if no more than 2 are in the vehicle. With the seat up you have about 2 feet of cargo room at the base of the seat. Earlier Liberties had a recall on the front balljoints, and rear brake pads - which they replaced the rotors as well on mine. Check engine light liked to go on for no reason a bit. Other than that, it never left me stranded for 40K miles.

we owned a 06 Liberty Renegade for a month. it was a nice vehicle, good power and gas mileage. however the ergonomics weren't the greatest. Mrs J and i both agreed the steering wheel was too far from the driver. could have used a tele feature. plus the front passenger's seating space wasn't all that great. which in-turn created less rear passenger space.
traded that for an Avalanche which we are much happier with. plus the mid-gate feature really does work well. now i am trying to find a black 07 Avalanche to get the 100,000 mile warranty. and no cladding.

hope this helps

Robin

You know Anjie would tell you the VUE.

Ya know Welby, your insight into how to properly care for the AWD feature is weighing on my judgment as well. At least with the 4x4 Icna replace one tire without having to worry about changing them in sets should I get a blowout. With the AWD you were saying, and it makes sense, that one needs to change out both tires on the same axle so the radii will be the same. Not sure of how much of an actual issue this will ever be, but it gave me pause.

Well Anjies is a FWD so I dont have to experience that problem. Not sure if the tire thing is truely a problem or not. Best advice is to ask a trusted service manager at a dealership if he has seen any problems in that regards. It may be a thing just to sell four tires. I personally say if you replace two at a time on the same axle you would be OK. If you rotate the tires properly they should wear out at the same time in theory. Porvided they were put on at the same time. Alignments and balancing is a must also.

So, overwhelming response and experience about the Liberty (thanks to all for that), but not much about the VUE. I need to bug Markydoo, IIRC he loved his.

VUE, anybody??

Any comperable alternatives that anyone can recommend?

When repair time comes, the liberty is wayyy harder to work on. I've driven both, I like the vue better.

My wife has had the 4 cyl frontWD Vue for 3 years, now. Not very powerful, but fine to run the errands. Decent mileage, the variable ratio tranny feels funny at first, but we soon forgot it was there. I was initially wary of the reliability of that tranny, but no problems yet.
We like it. It definitely has a "car" feel to it.
6cyl and AWD would be different, of course.

Michel Richard

Now your speaking my language! I currently HATE my POS 4Runner for similar reasons. Plus many parts are expensive, all the power of a 4cyl with all fo the milage of a V8. Anyone wanna buy a used 4runner?

I like the VUE better, too.

Michael, thanks for your comprehensive input. It sounds like you have the bare bones model so anything I get should be better. I could live with what you described so it is sounding good.

Probably going to get laughed at but what about a sportage. Not familar with them but brand new are around 20k with a 100,000mile 10 year mile warranty. Maybe pick one up off lease???

$20k is $6k way too much for my budget. The new ones are nice, the old ones are not so good. The old have the worst rear impact damage cost. If you back into a parking post at 5mph you have to replace the whole rear hatch or some silly thing like that.

I would have probably gone with a Hyundai Santa Fe if I were to go more expensive. Good power and the people I knwo wiht them like them.

Are you only looking for new?

You would be able to pick up an 04 Subaru Outback or Outback Sport for under $14K, that will likely be more longlived then a new Liberty or Vue. I get 26-30 mpg out of my OBS, and its got AWD and enough ride height for me to not be afraid of taking it down backwood fire trails. And it battles with Honda and Toyota for top ranks in maintence.

Zach

Andy,

My pleasure. It can also carry teener parts. I tried to upload pictures from here in the office, but am not able to, for some reason. If you go onto my main project thread, in the signature below, a few pages in, you'll see a few pictures of the Vue with 914 hoods and such in the trunk !

We were looking for a basic, inexpensive grocery getter, and that's exactly what we got. As I said, it's a little underpowered on the highway, or going up long steep hills, but it gets us around.

When we want to really drive, we take something else, like a teener.

Michel

Yours is a 4cyl, correct? I would like to get something that can tow and I knew one guy who did tow his 914 with his VUE. He defiently had the V6, but I dont know if it was the 3.0 or 3.5. I am not even sure if there is a 3.5 and if so when it came out, though.

Flat towing your 914 would not be an issue. If you put a trailor in the mix, you would be over weight. But that would probably be the case withthe Libery and Vue as well.

If you are wanting something with the balls to tow any of the vehicles you own, I would suggest looking into a 1/2 ton truck (ford f150, dodge 1500, chevy 1500). You could find a nearly new one around here for under what you want to pay.

I don't know what the tow rating of either the Liberty or the Vue is, but given the realtivly short wheel base of each, and limited power, I would be suprised if either of them rated much more then the 2500lbs tow rating that the Outback has.

#edit# Looks like I am wrong on the above. The vue will tow 3500 with trailor brakes, and the liberty is rated to 5000 pounds. Having towed with a cherokee I would highly suggest a towing package though, and a transmission cooler. The cherokee was kinda scary to tow with @ 4000 lbs. The trailor drove the cherokee more often then not. I'd still suggest a truck if you want something to tow your broken down fleet, though. #/edit#

Zach

We have a 2002 Liberty Limited, V-6 with all the options including tow package and skid plates. Its my wife's daily driver and its been trouble-free its entire life. The ride is a bit stiff, but steering & handling are very good. I've used it once to tow our boat (normally towed w/my 5.9 Grand Cherokee) and it did OK.

It has the "select-trac" system with full time 4wd otion, which is where it has been set all its life. I did try 2wd one time in a misty rain and did a 360 - I recommend full time 4wd, that's why you buy one in the first place, right? As far as mileage - buy the Vue, its probably 500 lbs lighter and will give you better around-town mileage. I have seen 20 on a trip, but around town 16 is what to expect.

Just changing the oil takes some skill with the skid plates, and the whole drivetrain looks scary to work on (8-year Chrysler warranty!) It makes my ZJ look like a kiddie car underneath.

I think they switched to rear disc brakes in '03, so if you look at Libertys, steer clear of the '02s. The 02s also had a higher ride height (ours has up-country springs which ride even higher). The new diesel gets good mileage, but will probably be out of your price range. Here's a link to the Liberty Forum for more info than you'll ever need.
http://www.jeepkj.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=3
-Murt

Hey Zach, yer missing the whole 20mpg point. The 1/2 tone does not even remotely fit into my parameters.

$14K, GOOD gas milage, auto, 4x4

Towing a 914 is a probable necessity (inevitable), though

Hey Murt,
You got the REALY nice one that is out of my range. It has the much more powerful V6 in (215hp IIRC, vs 143hp). That is why the milage is not as good. At best with the 150hp 4runner I have I get 16. Sucketh big wompum.

Thanks for the synopsis, though. Some good general info.

In that case it seems like your choice is made. Your 914 on a trailer is going to be at or slightly above the 3500# tow rating of the Vue, and any of your other vehicles is going to be well over. Sounds like you need to jump for the liberty.

If you are just flat towing, your options open up again (and I would advocate further for the scooby-doo, but I am biased towards it).

Zach

I like the suby, but there are two of us making the decision and she likes the VUE. Most subys are ugly, but the functionality out weighs that by pounds.
I use a tow dolly to two the car and they are not that heavy. The Benz is actually only about 500lbs more than the 914. I am not towing the 4Runner....it is going on the block after the benz is back up.

In response to the Liberty vs VUE .. I was at GM when the VUE rolled out with the 3.0 v6. My matrix was Caddy Northstar and ZR1 through LS6. The first 3.0L series in the VUE was derived from the Caddy Catera. This motor still gives me warranty nightmares. I understand that current models source the motor from Honda which would make this vehicle very attractive. Hope this helps ? Larry

I looked at a bunch of AWD vehicles, Vue, Forrester, Impreza, CRV, Rav4, Vibe, Etc. I ended up with the Pontiac Vibe AWD. I get 28mpg up here in hilly northeastern PA and have seen 35mpg in straight hiway driving.

Not going to tow much with it though and it's sorta slow. Good cargo space though. It's also got good headroom.

'03s and '04's shoild be <14k.

Mike T

That is correct. We own the 4 cylinder model. We actually have a towing hitch on it, but only to pull a small utility trailer, when we need to take stuff to the dump, when one of the kids is moving some furniture, or in the spring when we get a bunch of garden supplies.

Pretty sure I would not be able to tow a teener with that engine. Dunno about the 6 cylinder, though. My thought on towing has alway been that you don't want to come close to the stated capacity i.e. in my mind I've always figured that if I'm going to tow something weighing 2,500 pounds, I wanted 5,000 pound capacity.

Why do you want all wheel drive ?

Michel

corrent model VUE w/ 4 cly towing 1500 6 cyl is a 3.5 towing 3500
AWD vs FWD doesnt effect towing but does gas mileage (only a little bit) AWD is available as a V6 only

02 and 03 only years for 3.0 04 and up 3.5


Check owner reviews here http://www.kbb.com/kbb/ReviewsAndRatings/OwnersReview.aspx

I am approved and as soon as my test is over on Fri I will be looking a few black 04 6cyl, AWD versions. 19-25 mpg, 181hp, 3500 towing. I cant wait to have piece of mind.

I'd look at a used WRX - or maybe a Forester or Legacy. There are some subies with 6cyl engines from a few years back that would probably work out if you needed a 6.

In my experience the subies have equal or better ground clearance and off road ability than the pseudo offroaders that look more the part, so choose carefully.

Just my 2c.

Oh, and I forgot to say . . . even the Front Wheel Drive performs decently in snow. That's the reason we got a pseudo offroader: plenty of ground (snow) clearance, and engine on top of the driving wheels.

That may not be one of Andy's primary concerns, however.

Michel

I had a 2000 GMC Sierra with a 5.2 which got 20mpg highway. It was a four door and long bed and pulled all my boats and box trailer effortlessly.

Chics dug that ride heavily even over my 2001 Jetta TDI.

There were Legacy Outbacks with the H-6 3litre engine. I think that starting with the 2005 MY they changed over to a turbocharged 2.5L 4banger. They may still offer the H-6 though. But its going to be out of DrE's price range, even used (unless it has some high mileage).

There is no way a WRX will meet his needs. It has no towing ability at all, has a lower ride height, and _sucks_ down gas. That, and Noel thinks they are ugly.

Of course, they are ugly. But, so is the 914. I have only ever bought ugly cars. Between maintence, functonality and being fun to drive, my OBS has been the best car that I have ever owned.

Zach

Yup, the 914 is the only ugly car I can have for now. I like the VUE. It fits many of my taste adn performance needs adn should last me through residency if maintained. AWD is for snow and because I can get it. 6cyl was only for the power needs, I drive a gutless 4Runner right now and want a change. If I had a suby I would constantly be trying to draw the fouls that other drivers were passing out so I could wreck it and take the engine out There is a not so small part of me wishing that someone would wreck the 4Runner while I was driving it (like they did to my beloved cherokee, and one of my bikes less than a month later) so I could get the insureance money and not have to worry about selling it. Noel gets pissed when we are going around 25 adn some idjut starts swervingito our lane and I hold my ground yelling, "come on already and hit me!" They NEVER destroy the vehicles you hate, only the ones you love. If this was CA I would have been hit already Rant over, back to learning about diuretics

914 ugly? Suby over six? California drivers? :hide:Looks like you have a popery of vehicles for trade in.

We have an 05 Liberty Renegade, and I didn't want to like it, but I do. It's not bad at all. It gets a consistent 20mpg on road trips, and gets the job done. Oh, and my wife likes it.

We got a great deal on the Jeep, but the VUE was at the top of the list for one big reason. The 3.5L engine and trans are HONDA... same as in the Pilot. Do not buy the VUE with any other engine. The honda has 250hp (yes, it's fast) and actually gets great fuel economy (in the same range as the four banger! around 26+mpg hwy).

For $14k you should be able to find a nice 2005 3.5L AWD VUE if you look around a little.

I have a bunch of 04s to look at. Thanks for the eye opener to the drive train.
I checked out the improvements over the 03 here:
http://www.automotive.com/2004/12/saturn/v...iews/index.html

I cant wait until I am done with my test on Fri. Going car shopping! (good thing Noel has a J O B or we would not be able to get anything )

One of the major things that I alwasy liked about ht esaturns was the corrosion and dent resistant polymer body panels. I hate parking lots, soon I will be able to park with impunity!

Hmmm. Don't want to start any problems here, but I'll chime in anyway.

Disclaimer: I worked on the 2008 Escape (damper tuning). These vehicles, Vue and Liberty, were in our competive segment, so I spent a lot of time driving them and assessing their strengths and weaknesses. And oh, yeah, I was driving 2005/6 models, so the earlier models may be different.

Liberty-Great and "real" offroad performance (only cute ute with real offroad performance), horrible ride quality, way too much rear control (they had to do it to pass fishook requirements) which makes the vehicle beat you up over long distances (at least compared to the competition), powertrain NVH not good, engine sounds like a tractor, but decent power and performance, steering was okay

Vue-Still scares me about that recall.....steering is otherworldy bad, they use EPAS (which can be good) but the tuning has no real torque build so you find yourself in the other lane when you just wanted to avoid a bump (a little exaggeration there) AVOID ANY EMERGENCY MANUEVERS WHEN THIS VEHICLE IS LOADED!!!!!... and that's all I'll say about that. I agree about the powertrain, very nice, powerful and makes good noises.

Now.... I'm paid to dig deep into vehicles and figure out how we can be better than the competition (or at least understand it and then do nothing about it because it costs money). Most people may never notice these issues. So, I state these things only so one can make an informed decision. If you drive one of these vehicles and don't notice something I've pointed out as a negative, enjoy the vehicle and don't think about it again.

Good Doctor,
We have an '04 Vue and we really like it. It has the 3.0 six which has a lot of power. It is AWD although we have not had to use that yet(this winter in the snow hopefully).
The recall made the ride a little harsher but still comfortable. Good mileage with 180 HP six. I think you'd be happy with a Vue. Good luck, Rick

Kevin,
Basically all cars have problems, not one is perfect for the price range that I am in and even the spendy ones have issues. I will be test driving the VUE, of course, and look forward to seeing how this new fangled steering goes. According to all of the reports that I have read, the 04 and newer resolved the steering issue. But I know enough to know that I do not know it all. Your appraisal of the vehicles is increadibly in depth, I hope that I do not find issue with any of the aformetioned descrepencies.

What reacal are you talking about? I have not been able to keep up with much news and such since I started med school.

Thanks for chiming in, Rick

You're absolutely right, all cars have issues/compromises. Many people like the steering on the VUE because the efforts are light. Again, just one person's view and not intended to piss on anyone's parade.

The recall was for a rear suspension member that was buckling when the government was testing the VUE/Equinox. Not sure about which years/configurations. There should be some information at the NHSTA website.

Ya Kevin, no offense taken at all. Your insight is welcome. It will be subjective as you say. Some people liek mayo, some miracle whip, some hate both

I looked into the buckling thing, looks as if they have a handle on it and it was for the 03/04 years. Still a bit concerning, but I aint worried so long as the one I get is reworked. gonna have to see about that.

You say the steering is electrical? I still do not understand why they woudl do that other than cost cutting measure (maybe).

I've had mine on some of the most serious tracks in Moab...

Cliky Here

Mike Anjie has an 03 and I describe the steering as sensative (sp) but we drove a 07 Greenline yesterday and steering was not as bad.

EPAS (electrical power assisted steering) in leau of more conventional HPAS (Hydraulic ....).

EPAS is cool stuff... generally more expensive, but more fuel efficient and highly tunable. We implemented it on the '08 Escape. You can have multiple torque maps for different speeds and do some compensation for crown sensitivity and things of that nature.