I am in the process of getting all of the dimensions right at the body shop.
I purchased my car with fiberglass flares installed and my door gaps have always been tight. I figured this was because of the flare installation long ago. The car was a club racers track car that I purchased out of Ramona, Cal. When I removed the roll bar the car was under considerable tension as when I cut through the side bars in it's removal the pipes sprung and it takes alot of effort to pull them together again.

When measuring the dimension from the door pillers they are right on. When measuring from the roll bar to the top of the windshield top, the drivers side is correct but the passinger side needs to open up about an 1/8".
We set the car up on the rack and got the dimensions perfect up down sideway and across by adding wieght and leveraging. The door gaps looked great and the top sat on perfect. we opened up the gap a hair more on the passinger side to compensate for it coming back a little.
We then welded in the Engman inner long reinforcement. When we put the car back on the ground everything went back to where we started from with no improvement or change.
My car has heavily reinforced ears and plates formed around the rear suspension and control arm area also.

What can you suggest to be able to hold the cars dimensions in place and reinforce it so that it stays put without having to actually bend it or is bending it the answer.

Anyone....

I think Johnman did some tub tweaking a while back and posted about it. I believe that he made some cuts and did some bending then weld back up the cuts. Do a search on it.

Just wrote a long post then deleted it. There is a shop in Shakopee that used to have a Cellette. The owner was Ken Olson. It's worth a check if you can't get the chassis to settle. I would be glad to look at it if your body shop can't get it to spec.

I started to do the same thing too, I don't think the measurement from the targa bar and the winshield frame is one that you should rely on. Sir Andy just went through all this, he should have some good sugestions.

This is rpobably the hardest thing to explain since evry situation is different. My experience with sick buildings, structural steel, is that sometimes I have to pull the structure a little bit more to one direction so that once the preasure is off, it settles back exactly where I wanted it at. A little pre stressing goes a long way and all the live loads on the frame changes everything all over again. If you somehow put some turn buckels or something adjustable to what you want to move, you can then play with it until you have it "dead nuts" to where you can set it in stone and weld it. Turn buckels are very powerful little bugers and the smallest ones will probably do just fine. To straighten my car when I installed a role cage contraption, I only had to use small load binders which helped alot.

Is it perfect? Hell no!

The thing is we did have it set perfect but apparently the inner long reinforcement does little in locking it up in that position. What I would like to know, if I was to add more reinforcement ( outside of reinstalling my roll bar ) which I prefer not to do, where should I add the reinforcement when I get the dimensions right on again. Simply
jacking the car up on the passinger side at the rear door gap, with a little weight in the back trunk gets my windshield to roll bar dimension to match the drivers side which is right on spec.

put it on a celette, get it back to factory specs, the weld in a full roll cage to hold it there ...
Andy

flatsix has a celette jig in bloomington.. Give Aaron a call and I bet they can help out. They also have a very nice shop.

My fear is that once it's up on one of those things my body work will have to start over again I would be out thousands of dollars, one thing leads to another, steel flares would replace the glass ones this would lead to that and my car will end up missing another season of events. I am getting so close to getting this project done I even bought a set of all season tires and heat exchangers so I can drive it on the winter days the streets are clear. The Turbo beast must live... but it's got to be right.

My body shop guys are very good and I trust they will get it right, I have seen some amazing work done by them. If I did put it up on the celette jig, does the jig pull on areas and push to line things up or does it help you determine were everything should be but you still have to figure out how to get it there.

Ive talked to Aaron in the past and he seems to be a very nice guy I may have to call him for suggestions or haul my car over there for
a tweeking

OpaAndy did a few cars and from what I learned from those posts once it

is on the cellette bench all the work is done on it. The tub is held in place by

the suspension points which keeps the car true while the twists and bends are

are pulled and pushed until they are gone and the car is set to factory spec's.

I did this a couple of years ago on my car, but I started with the opposite problem. My Passenger door gap was too large. My problem started back with a poorly repaired passenger side longitude (rust repair). When the patches for the cut-out sections were welded in, the car was up on jack stands for an extended period of time and the car had spread which widened the passenger door gap considerably. Luckily, the door kept the car from opening too far, but none the less, it was a very large gap.

I ended up cutting the patch out of the long and actually cutting the bottom portion of the long out. I pulled the car (pulled down on the long) several times. Each time I pulled the car past where I wanted it and took pressure off. Each time the car seemed to spring back somewhat.

I got the gap damn near perfect and when I welded back the patch panels, the car did spread out again slightly. My passenger side gap is much better than before, but it is still not perfect. I would rather have my too big of gap than no gap at all.

My car is not and never will be a CW car which is why it is now a 3.2 street car. The car corner balances very easily, so the tub isn't too far out, but if you want your gaps perfect, I would suggest a CELLETTE machine. They can tweek your car back to original specs much more easily than you can do it at home (guess how I know).

You can always try tweaking the door to even out the front/back door gaps. It's easier to bend the door jam hinge mount post than you would want to believe.

i have probably more FG (and bondo ) on my car than anyone else here ...

FG flares, bumpers, rockers all MOLDED together to give it a one-piece look.
*ALL* of it survived the celette stretching without any visible cracks ...

i wouldn't be worried too much about your bodywork. the car would have to be severely mangled for it to crack ...
Andy

I visited my car this morning and the passenger side has been corrected, they applied a ton of heat to the firewall area and long where they are tied together and pulled it, they said the Engman inner long reinforcement made it very difficult to open it up as opposed to how easy it was before. Testimony that the kit makes a big difference. They are going to get the driver gap right today and they will on there way to getting the car done.

you better make sure your suspension geometry is still correct. without the help of a celette, it's very easy to get this wrong. if you bend something in one place, something else has to move in another place ...

the easiest way of checking up on the work (if you don't have a celette) is to corner balance the car (without driver). get all 4 corners as close as possible to the same weight, then measure your suspension (rideheight). it *should* be exactly the same left/right in the front and the same left/right in the rear.

if not, your tub is bent ...
Andy

My hope is that were bending it back into place, I think the problem occured when I was
doing some hell hole repair when I first got the car. I welded in 1/8 steel plate that bent up about 3 inches on the firewall area and this was done when the car was on the ground and I never checked any of the dimensions. The heat and bend was directed at this location all I can say is the roof lines up perfect now were it didnt before. We only had to move it a little over 1/16" so I hope it's straight.

ok, i give up ...

my point is/was, the roof lines don't matter ... they don't tell you *anything* about the straightness of your frame. it'll take me 5 seconds to make the rooflines perfect. just pull on the windshieldframe until everything lines up.
fixed!

or not ... looks like my point was lost ... let's hope you're right ...
Andy

I just wish I knew of someplace reasonably close to me that had a celette machine to check my tubs and install cages/bracing while on the machine. Hell, I'd probably strip down my street car to check/fix it the right way, but I'm not shipping my tubs across the country just to check them. (Especially when I can get them to corner balance and align without going to extremes to do so).

Did I mention I have my own computerized alignment machine and scales?

Andy,
I have not disregarded your suggestion's, I totally appreciate your help. I forwarded this thread to my body shop guy and we will go over everything when we get back together.
I have been running in and out of the house all day while I've been mixing cement and pouring footings for the new deck in 25º weather.

I am almost positive that the door gaps are the way they are due to the installation of the fiberglass flares long ago, and the back roll bar area ended up the way it was due to my hell hole repair.

I dont think its bent but I dont know for sure.

My car is still a roller and I dread pulling the suspension off, my car was a dedicated track car when I purchased it, and everything in regards to the way its set up and handles has been dialed in.

Track Car??? Body work done??? Don't worry about the door gaps, and run it this season. Just be sure your suspension is close to spot on as much as your budget can afford. For later, get a better chassis to start with if you want better gaps. rust free chassis that are straight can be had, for not too much change.

I figured out the same kind of problem after the body work on a car once, had to repeat the body work to get it all right, sucks I know. But at least yours is a track car built for fun, not a show car!

I feelz your pain on this one!

Good luck

Unfortunately, mine WAS a track car which i've converted back to a street car, my plan was never to make it a show car but an extremely nice street car. I do plan someday to start with a nice straight car and build another.
I've purchased all new trim for the body and new seals, here is what I have into the car so far so you can see why I want to get it as nice as I can without a full on rotissere restoration.

IAMCHAPPYS PORSCHE 914 6 GT TURBO CARERRA BUILD SHEET

3.12 CIS TurboCharged Twin-plug engine
Using 1979 SC 3.0 block, crank. rods and heads
91 3.3 turbo pistons and cylinders
Rod pin modification for stroke
Supertec Head Studs
Elgin Valve springs
Arp rod bolts with 928 nuts
930 turbo oil pump
K27 7200
Spearco 1080 cfm intercooler
Two 7" electric fans for intercooler
Transmission cooler
Tilton electric transmission cooler pump
Mark Donahue special edition steering wheel(very rare).
Terry cables
86 930 turbo intake manifold
Euro fuel distributor
Bosch 400 lph racing fuel pump
Tial 38mm wastgate
Tial 50mm BOV
Turbo x boost controller
Hobbs 4 lb pressure switch
7th fuel injector micro fueler (911sc CSV)
Supertech 12 plug conversion distributor
MSD boost retard ignition with rev control
MSD shift light
2 MSD Blaster coils
Magnacore twin plug 12 wires
RSR plug holders
Maganaflow 2.5"in 2.5"out muffler
914 6 heat exchangers
Custom stainless crossover pipe
Hooker resonator exhaust tip
930 cam driven oil pump
Aeropquip stainless and blue line socketless fuel and oil lines
Fire sleeve
Front mounted oilcooler
Factory 914-6 oil tank
Factory 914-6 engine mount
Factory 914-6 rear stub axles
Front mounted oil cooler
911 front end with aluminum crossmember
951 Turbo brakes calipers front and rear
Brake bias valve
Carrera solid rotors
Speed bleeders
Porterfield RS-4 brake Pads
23MM master cylinder
Adjustable front swaybar
Rear sway bar (unmounted) for street
Set of 7,8X16 phone dial wheels
Set of 7,8x16 Fuchs (951)
Yokohama es100 225/50/16 , 245/45/16
Toyo RA1 225/50/16 , 245/45/16
ContiExtremeContact 225/50/16 , 245/50/16
Adjustable Koni shocks in front
911 gauges
901 side shift trans with Quaife and short gears (M,S,Z)
901 side shift trans stock gearing
914-6 ceramic coated headers
Rear end has been reinforced
Suspension ears reinforced
Engman Interior long reinforcment
Bilstien shocks adjustable perches in rear
200lbs springs
Turbo tie rods
Steering rack has been lowered for bump steer
camber truss front and rear
Wevo transmission mounts
Autopower Full roll cage
2005 Alpine cd mp3 player with 8" Quart subs driven by Alpine T220, Alpine type R 5 1/4 door and 6.5 kick panel speakers driven by Alpine T240 amp.
LED blue gauge bulbs
Gauge trim rings
Halogen headlights.
Gtech computer
a/r before turbo analog gauge Westberg
vdo boost vacuum gauge
gauge pod
Optima yellow deep cell battery
Billet battery holder
Oil dump tank
993 spare tire cover and tool kit
Hood mounted fuel door
GT fiberglass flares, rockers, Custom 914 6 GT valance and rear spoiler with intercooler duct.
Aluminum floor board
Aluminum pedals
All new chrome trim items
New engine lid letters
New ghost reflector rear lense
New windshield
Tow hooks
Modified Gt valance with brake ducts
914 Club badge

I am having a similar issue. My car, pre-upgrade had perfect door gaps. The car has been thru a ground up resto with flares, engman long kit, rear susp strengthening etc. etc. and can be seen here Marv's 3.6 GT project

Now during reassembly the door gaps are major crapola. Drivers side is tight, passenger side is loose WTF. I talked to Thomas at D&G swap last weekend and he mentioned the celette that Andy used up in the bay area. My thought is to first goto a laser allignment guy to see if everything is straight? Any ideas? should I contact Brad Roberts?

Your car is perfection, you would have to pull all of the suspension off to put it up on the Cellette but for your car with what you have done to it if your questioning it you may want to check it out or just try to live with it.

I think the installation of the flares may effect the rear quarter panels if there not checked with the doors in place, They may relax when the steel is cut out to accommodate the flares.

I dont think any of the issues I am having are affecting the suspension alignment, a 1/16th correction with the pull coming from above the longs seems pretty small to me but you never know

Since these car were hand built I believe there are variances in all. I have a another set of doors from a 73 with the reinforcement that tried out which were way bigger than my current doors in the door openings.