For those of you interested. Here is my Raby 2316 on the dyno at his shop. This is just before we turned 202 at 6k. The torque curve is very flat also, so it is not a real peaky motor. Hope you enjoy it. Let me know if you have any questions you want me to answer.

Mike, wrong pic!!

Post this over on my forums too, lots of 914 activity there, more than I expected!!

Its very refreashing!

That was it in action on the autocross track. Lots of MassIVe power will kick it sidways in a hurry. Here is the motor.

Thats more like it...
Now, watch this thread turn into a pissing match....

Where's Trekkor and Grant?? (They'll be here in a few minutes)

Cool!

I'm here...

My one and only post on this thread


KT

Until Grantsfo shows up and ya'll tag team it

I promise to be good if you do

damm, that's what i call superior self control!

now, how about a dyno chart to go with this beauty?
Andy

I have the chart at the shop if quik doesn't have one scanned..

All in by 6K RPM and valve control to 7,700 :-)

very cool!

no DTM? sounds like stock is working ok...

nice work guys.
AA

DTM not necessary... This combo is designed NOT to need it, its an old combo (2316cc Annihilator) with just newer cylinder head technology...

BTW- This engine was only expected to make 180 HP....

What was the previous best hp made by this combo?

IE how much of a difference did your cylinder heads make?

That is some VERY impressive numbers!!

Getting very close to 1hp/liter on street and low rpms!!

Thats a very potent combo.. I have 280 crank hp, and having a 4cyl close to being as fast as my car (added weight) is very serious!! Thats new vette chasing territory...

Andrew

1 hp/liter? so you have a 2hp car? :

hard to tell from the picture. are those short manifolds direct from cb, or talls cut down? if they're the *shorts*, where would the power move to if the *talls* were used?

k

with longer intake runners, the peak power/torque would move to lower rpms ...
Andy

jake here is an usual question for you...how much raw fuel does a motor like this dump out the exhaust......ie how does it stand up in an "aircare" or "smog" testing....is there tons of valve overlap...
ps it looks great!!!....
i think a sound clip would be cool too

quick - lookin forward to the graph. I'm a scientist, I like data.
And a question: Does the rear of your car always sit that low, or is it because of a MassIVe burst of torque? Should stiffer rear springs be used to counteract front lightness from MassIVe acceleration out of turn? Looks like fun!

Thats same observation I'm making. The rear end looks real soft. Mike, What kind of suspension setup (torsion bars, swaybars and rear springs) are you running on this car? That car looks like it probably is either understeering on mild power or goes into throttle oversteer when you mash on the power from that Aircooled Technologies MassIVe motor.

Did you do the restoration yourself? Its a very nice car and bet it rocks with that big 4!

using a type 4 means no need for a renegade cooling system $1000 and means no need for kep adaptor stuff $1000 and up to 2316 means no need for DTM and you get to keep your car light weight : )

On the other hand you need $800 in carbs, $350 mallory dist, $500+ for a header, $5000 for (ie:) a 2270 engine kit which I think includes all machining of crank and block.

the bottom line is that the 914 can accept many powerplants - those that can afford a raby engine will consider one long and hard, or those that race PCA events will as well - those of on a BUDGET will continue to look for more power via a renegade - or other - water cooled conversion - because - one - it is somewhat less expensive ( renegade kit $1900, cooling $1000, new crate sbc v8 250hp engine $1500, accessories for sbc engine $1000, exhaust $200, rear springs $100 = $5700 or so.

HUM - ALMOST A WASH ????

Jake - keep up the good work - one day we will all have several 914's - at least one being Raby powered : )

Who wants an apple - who wants an orange ??

Jake,

I do not have the graph that I can put up here. Please post it. I am working on getting some more shots of the car and motor/exhaust up. The car is a bit soft in the rear. Using 140 lb springs and with the added power, this winter the plan is to go to new Bilstiens with adjustable perches and probably 180 lbs. Using 911 suspension and brakes up front, from an SC. Bigger TB, beefy sway bar that goes under not through the chasis, aluminum crossmember with stock brakes, 19mm and SS lines. Rear brakes are stock with a T in place of the Pvalve. I did the whole restoration myself except the paint/minor body work, motor and roll bar. More pics to follow.

Thanks and I am glad you like it. It was a labor of love and lots of $$$, but worth it.

The previous strongest engine of this displacement was 184 BHP with 190 Torque at 4,000 RPM. The ONLY difference this engine had was port work developed for our LE 200 heads. The best part is the fact that Len did NOT tell me that he prepped these heads in this manner, he wanted to see if I said something to him and trust me- I DID! These heads are NOT LE heads, they were stock 2.0/ 914 heads that Len only changed the ports on and the changes were not visual at all- The benefit was EXTREME mixture quality. (Listen to the latest radio show for a lot of mixture quality chatter with Len and I)

FWIW It is approaching a year since I dynoed this engine, in that year this combo has yet been revised four times. It is now at 211HP with 215 lb/ft of torque with less than 9.3:1 cr- When I add the roller cam developments I expect a 5-8% power gain on top of these numbers.

As far as "Raw fuel exiting the exhaust"- that doesn't happen with efficient combos, efficiency and mixture quality is VERY evident with this combo. I don't care much at all about SMOG because any state that this engine would pass a tailpipe a test in would seriously FAIL the visual inspection...

In 5 years I have taken that 2316cc combo from 150HP to 211HP with an equal percentage gain in torque. The biggest difference is the fact that in 2001 this engine needed SEVEN THOUSAND revs to make that 150HP number, now we make over 200HP at less than SIX THOUSAND revs... Thats a difference bigger than most can understand.

Wow! Looks like you did a great job. That suspension setup is definetly a little soft for the power youre throwing around if you are planning to AX the car. I think 180 lb springs and 22 mm front bar with stock 911 torsion bars would be nicely balanced and not too stiff for the street. You could probably even get away with 200 lb springs in the rear.

We hear plenty about these big bore engine conversions, but not enough on proper suspension tuning for a high output T4. I think the power of these motors presents a whole new dynamic to conventional suspension setup as you need to account for weight transfer that a big T4 presents when applying power. I think you have to go with a little higher spring rate than say a 125 hp T4 would use just to counter act the squat that all that power brings to the rear end.

Again this is an awesome machine! You and Jake combined have made a great little car. Congrats!

Cool!

Moneywise: I know the 2316 I'm involved in has over 10k associated with it.



B

Pictures:

More:

hey im running same box/coil/dizzy as you!

very good combo...

i mounted my box and coil on the firewall... was heat the reason you chose the trunk?

btw - is that a CSP breather?

Those headers and muffler belong in an art museum. The oiling system looks interesting too - whats that setup? Looks like you have a few quarts of oil flowing through that rig!

Yep, I have been very happy with the electronics. I just liked the idea of it being in the trunk since when I put in the roll bar, I had to move the engine lid release to outside the car. This way I can remove the coil wire if I want to and lock the trunk. It was also a neater installation and easier to wire then doing it in the engine bay.

CSP breather? Not sure, I bought it from Jake.

Mike,
Have you had any trouble with your starter wiring or your backup wiring? That header is going to generate some pretty good heat. It looks like you might have rewired with high temperature wire?

Nope, no problems with any of it. I did rewire the back up lights and I have it tucked up above the transmission. Just wire from Advanced auto, so I don't think it is high temp. No problems with the starter either. I have a heavy duty 911 starter, so it cranks great. The wires are pretty close and there is no real slack so they are tight against the top. The header is hot, but I think the coating helps.

Grant, yep they are really nice. I was very impressed. They were way expensive and I had to bite the bullit, but I had gone this far......The oil is a high flow set up from Jake. Out to the filter, out of the filter to the front cooler, no thermostat, back to a check valve where the Accusump pipes in and then straigt back into the motor. I do have the deep sump which adds about 2 quarts. The Accusump is a 2 quart version and probably another quart in the lines to the cooler and the cooler itself. I have had no problems with oil temp at all, even in the heat of the summer. Actually, I need to install a thermostat this winter because I can barely get any heat in it. Like 130 unless it sits and idles for a while. So far very happy with the setup.

The muffler was the first of its kind. I asked for a center exit and he made it special. I think it is a $100 option now. Also have the Boxster heat shield there which I custom fit in place.

I have always thought this would be the best approach with a high output T4 conversion. Better safe than sorry. It looks like a very impressive setup.

The install can literally "Make or break" my engine. Mike wasn't like a lot of my customers, he was as serious about the install as I was and thats very rare..

He followed my instructions verbatim.

Thanks Grant. I am proud of it. I must say, Jake was a huge help and often took my calls to ask "stupid" questions. After having all that $$ in a motor, you want to make sure you put it in right. He was very helpful, which is one of the reasons I speak so highly of the service and product I got for my money.

Thats some very amazing gains Jake!

I am completely impressed.

How much would it cost to build 350hp, 300hp? Any way possible from a T4 (turbo,supercharger,both,nos,nonoftheabove)

My next sbc engine could cost me close to 10k. 6k in parts...

Im just deaming of how much of a raise at work I would need to afford a badass engine from you..

Andrew

As my clients keep wanting more and more power I have to keep making the bar raise higher.. For the better part of 6 years I worked on the medium displacement engines up to 2316cc, as soon as I get a 2270 engine reliable at 200HP (should be next month) alot of things will be changing as we'll be stepping up to the bigger boys again...

I have a 280HP combo already proven, its already been dynoed and is so crazy that I decided to buy the second dyno to make it easier to tune these big boys...

Tomorrow has never been brighter for the Type 4- LE series CNC heads, Roller cams, and 11 months of Turbo development is certainly making big gains for sure...

Its keeping me awake at night- I HAVE TO GET THE NEW DYNO FINISHED!

Ya, the past year i've seen some big changes in your HP figures... and IM impressed..

Wrong,
It's Performance Art!
They belong on an asphalt stage making sweet horsepower music.

Wow... Mine are fully optioned Tangerine Racing Headers with C/Coating and a stock exit. I have burned up wiring twice. I now have everything heat shield coated and will be rebuilding my starter harness in high temperature wiring.
I wonder what the difference is? For one, the first time I fired it after the install the wires were laying on the header. But the second time they had been covered with heat shield and wire tyed out of the way.

If your street engine's are making this much hp...

How much are your race engine's makin???

(chris reminded me of that...)

Sounds like your exhaust gas temps are way too high..

They can have several hundred degrees of impact on the surface temps of the primaries..

Tune, I'd say the timing is retarded or the enrichment is lean- or both..

Not a lot of time has been spent on Race engines in the past year, I have only built two.. I sent 4 of the racers to other builders so we can put all the emphasis on our own F prod program for 2007..

The race engines I work with are all too class limited to use my crazy developments, stupid friggin rule books get in my way and it pisses me off!

Wait till 2007, we have barely scratched the surface.....

Beautiful work Chris. When I build my next T4 car I'm saving my pennies for those headers. Anyone considering T4 headers should spend the extra money for Chris Foley's work, his craftsmanship is heads and shoulders above the competition. If Chris made six headers and muffler they'd be on my car.

Hi Mike,

Nice motor, sure looks well put together. I wish I was closer so that I could have Jake do my dyno work, but LA is closer than Georga, so that is where we're going.

Question: What are you running for compression and what octane gas did you use during the test?

Sure looks like fun on an autox course.

Thanks,

Randal

Like it--the car's so fast the shock wave knocks the cones over!

Here in Phoenix, they don't care what you've done to the motor, the only visual inspection for my 914 is if I have a gas cap or not. What they do care about is tailpipe emissions, you have to pass. Do you have basic CO and HC data at idle and on the dyno at part load?

Edited: found the AZ limits on the web, shouldn't be hard to pass with these; Idle conditions, HC < 450 ppm, CO < 5.00%

Just a quick update. I have been doing other stuff, but have over 6000 miles on the motor. Mostly street and some autocross. Still runs great, very limited maintenance and decent gas mileage. Hope to get it on the track next spring for a few runs.

Thanks for posting an update. Old threads like this don't get updated very often and it's really helpful when they do.

Glad to see that you are still happy with our creation after a few years of service...

This engine was our first 200+HP 2316 that made it's power on pump gas . It lead the way for the 2316-210 engine kit as well as some other cylinder head developments that we have applied to the breed since the engine was built.

I saw Mike's car at Pett leman back in October and I was impressed with the detail he used to build the car, it made me feel proud to have provided the engine.

Mike, the new facility is almost completed here, you need to come up for our MassIVe Reunion coming up this Spring! In the mean time the chassis dyno is ready for action in the new facility and I'd like to see what this one makes at the wheels after a few thousand miles.