I've really wanted to take a teener down to the tub, have it properly sprayed & built back up w/each piece getting its own dose of tlc...

I'll not be working this coming spring (going back to school for MBA in the fall) and have a great chassis to work with.

I'm dreaming of flares, 5 bolt conversion, etc... I want to know what types of pitfalls & potential problems to sort of "expect".

Look here for a start -
http://www.phoenixhobbies.com/html/project_914.html

Expect to bring buckets of $ LOL
Really - It's lots of work (but fun) and you will end up doing much more that you plan or think you need to do and will take more time.

Just jump in and go for it.

Paul

Don't do it unless you really enjoy working on cars. Every nit picking aspect of it...

You can buy *at least* two of the very best 914's for what it will cost to do a full restoration/build yourself.

Buy someone else's work for .50 cents (or less) on the dollar.

Ask Greg Robbins what it's like.

His car is now basically new...

I agree with Gint
Unless you love it, the building, the detail, & have the time
Buy a good one & drive it.
A better soultion is have two, one to drive and keep you motivated and
one that you build to your dreams.
That said Im doing one. But its going back to OE
Not because I think it will be worth $$ but because it is one of the rarer cars
and it was my first

Thanks for the feedback. What are the main costs? Assuming a complete car to start with, what are the other big expenditures (except the obvious paint)?

Blasting/Dipping & welding
then RUBBER!

Same goes for any restoration. I have a squareback that I probably put in at least 15,000-20,000 and countless hours without any of that going into the engine or trans. Car is worth maybe .50 on the dollar, if that. I would have been better buying a finished one. Made the same mistake on other cars too - 911, 356, 912, you name it. I've learned my lesson.

That said, everyone should restore a car at least once in their life. It is a very fulfilling experience.

Would it be economical to buy a blaster (-$700 from Harbor Freight) and then do my own powder coating? Seems that could really cut down on costs...

WARNING: The surgeon General has determined that 914 restoration
can be hazardous to your wealth.

But it's fun.

Blasting and powder coating are cheap (relatively speaking) to have done.

it'll be a *lot* of work. you'll learn more about your car than ever before. there *will* be a point where you lose steam and you say to yourself "self, will this thing ever be running again?".

if you follow through, the first drive after the two years it took you to finish the project will put the biggest grin on your face.

just don't cheap out along the way and especially not on the finishing touches, like the paint.

if there's anything, and i mean *anything* that you can think of you "might" want to do, do it this time around.

otherwise you'll end up like me, spending years and countless $$$ only to sit here two years later thinking about doing it all over again, but this time do it "right" ...

that's all i got ...
Andy

ptravnic,
Your a smart kid, but your not listening to your teacher. Again read the post from Phoenix-MN, Gint & others. The best thing for you to do is get your MBA then you can afford $$ to buy your dream 914. The first requirement for a restored 914 is money$$, lots of it.

Then,
A dedicated garge & work space for 5-years.
High end camera to take pictures, so you remember where the parts go.
Today's NOS parts for a complete restoration will cost about $20K plus.
Min. of 5-years time & about 2,500 to 4,000 manhours of your time for a 100 pt. car.
Finding a rust free 914 to start your project.
Lots of friends to help & hopefully have a truck w/car trailer.
Finding a painter you can trust (believe me this is important).
Did I say, lots of money & time.

Yes, it's great to do a restoration, but be prepared to sell you project @ .50 cents on the dollar when you can't finish it. Wait till you have time in your life then you will enjoy the results. If I remember correctly you are getting an MBA & that's more important. Then buy a completed 914 & do a few things to personalize it.

Tom

and 25 cents on the dollar if you *do* finish it ...
Andy

lots of hours.lots of money.i totally agree with rich ,i bought a "hooptie 73" to drive so i wouldnt shortcut the 70 or lose intrest in it.
i have bought three project cars with all the parts for resto this year mainly because they lost intrest.due to the fact the put alot into the project with no "satisfaction" retun on it.and then lost money when they put it up for sale for less then .50 on the dollar. so you must be dedicated.
they fun cars great to drive.
no fun when they are on jackstands unless you really love workin on cars.
james

My $.02

I did this on my six conversion. It took the better part of 5+ years, and cost buckets of money (and it is still not finished, just drivable). There were times when I would sit on a stool in the garage and look at the car, completely overwhelmed by the enormity of the project. But then I would take a look at one small part, and tackle that. Each little bit done was another step closer to finishing the car.

I am of a different opinion than the rest here. I didn't want to go buy a 914 and just drive it. I wanted to build my 914. My car reflects my vision of what I think a 914 should be. I get a lot of pride out of the fact that I have disassembled everything on my car, and put it back together. It may have started it's life in Germany, but now it is my creation, and there is no other exactly like it in the world. I enjoyed the building as much as the driving.

Now, is this for you? Only you can decide. But if you do, you need to be prepared to spend lots of time and money to finish it.


And remember, those of us that have tread this path before you are here to offer our support, advise, and general good natured ribbing to help you along the way.


Good Luck!

I started my project on a wim to remove the carpet a little over a year ago. Unfortunately about 9 months ago my friend, who I had been begging to sell me his 92 Camaro (who said he'd never sell it) came through so I had to cough up and buy it. (ya, had to, LOL.. )

I now have the car up on my new shell cart... It was too hot to work on in the summer and I cant afford to cool the garage here in az or I would be about 6 months ahead of where I am.

I've arrived at the point where I almost dislike working on the car because I want SO BADLY to just DRIVE it instead. But I keep working on it and know how happy I'll be when it IS done.

I know that I have purchased about 700 bucks worth of just tools etc to work on it that I never had or needed before. That along with what I will have to buy etc.. give me the outlook that it wont be done for another year or so. In the meantime, and in retrospec, i'd rather be driving it unrestored instead. I think I should have waited until I had the full amount of funds in savings to begin instead of having to save for certain aspects of the project to be completed.

thats my view.

Fun, alot of work...alot of money. It took me about a year to do.I took mine down to bare metal. Did all the interior, tear down, etc myself..but had a great body shop do the stripping/priming/painting. I'm guessing I put about 8k in money into it not taking into account any of my time/labor.

But...it was fun and rewarding when I took it for my first real drive (which was to the Midwest Classic in MI).

Everyone has there own good points.....for me it was a personal challange being a non-car guy. Probably wound'nt do it again....but had a hell of a lot of fun doing it! Just completing one thing gave me pride....like brake lines or wiring harness back in. Took me ~2 1/2 yrs. but I paided as I went. Still enjoying the car and making improvements. Take your time....enjoy the process...it's worth it!

I did it and almost, almost came to the point where I thought it would never be done. 40 months, planning, gathering parts, locating blasting company, locating body shop and painter, looking for NOS stuff that can only be found at the four corners of the 914 universe, $$$$$$$$$ and more $$$$$$, without the resources of this board and a best friend who is both a 914 owner, 914 nut and Porsche Parts Department manager at Porsche dealer, it could never have been done. Whatever you think it will cost, triple it. However long you think it will take, double or triple it. Am I glad I did it HELL YEAH!!!

It will cost five times what you planened, and / or five times as much work. you may never get teh car on the road again. this is the big pit fall of any restoration from ground up. you usually can by as good a car for much less money from some sucker who did the ground up,a dn now has to sell it at a loss.

however if you enjoy it, and can do it, by all means go for it. just remember the cost will skyrocket on you.

once you get into it, you will wnato to replace EVERYTHING after all the slightly weathered chrome won't look good on a shiny painted car, that lense with one itty bitty hairline crack will not be good enough anymore , so everything will need be replaced. thats how it often happens, thus the under estimate for price

Go ahead a price individual parts for EVERYTHING before you get into it, add it all up and you will certainly be shocked, ane think a 914 will never be worth that (especially if it is a standard 4 cylinder) then assuming you have a straight rust free body (ok, you can laugh, there are never rust free) figure at least 5-6 grand for a paint job. then figure many many 40 hr weeks to put it all together again. Remenber toot hat parts come off the car much faster than they go on.

then figure the car will be so nice, that you will be afraid to drive it anywhere 'cept a show, and be freaking about a stone chip the whole time.

not that I am trying to talk you out it is, but a full ground up restroration is big time crazy, cna be fun, but you need teh funds and time to undertake it, adn then will you be able to truley enjoy the finished product? You won't get you money back it you sell it either.

if it is you first restoration, then i would start with a more limited restoration, pick a nice minimal rust car as a starting point, get some nice paint on it, and as budget and time allows, upgrade the components, do up the interior, detail teh drive train/engine, etc... you might actually get eh car done in a few years, and be happy, plus you will be able to drive it without freaking out.

these are things to consider, if this does not faze you, then go for it, you will joina very small elite group of ground up restorer's that actually finish their car. there are amny more that start his process, and never finsh.

it can be very rewarding to do this, and some folk really love the car shows,a dn competition, but it takes dedication of time an money beyond what most folks estimate in the beginning.

Well, some of us love to DRIVE them. I already have 2,000 miles on my ground up restoration, rain and all. I swapped the almost zero mile Pirellis (PO install) for Kuhmos when I noticed the Pirellis were too squirrely at an indicated 120 mph!! I'll restore it again in 10 years are so. I am still looking for a place to get her up to 6,500 rpm in 5th gear (that's for you Raby)!!!

true, some folks do drive them, but so many are afraid too after the expense and time. I am just warning him of some of the pit falls that can occur. actually with a raby motor, it probably is not a true restoration, as Raby motor were never from the factory. To me a ground up restoration means a factory perfect 100 point show winner. (i.e. concours).

That is why i suggest a less than full restoration, new paint, address any body issues,a dn replace things over time, this also allows one to drive the car,a dn enjoy it while working on it. new dash can go in ont he weekend, drive to work mondy, next weekend recover the seats, and so forth. by getting away fromt eh full restoration deal, you are also free to modify the car (which can make them more fun) with performance parts, nicer seats, better lights, etc....

i just would hate to see this guy start a full restoraation, and not be able to finish it, loose interest, ane sell the project at a loss. alot depends ont eh time and money that the owner can put into it. He says he plans to go to school, to me i think that means he will have limited time to work on the car. maybe better to wait until school is done,a dn MBA out of the way???

I have built many 100% perfect bone stock engines right down to the stickers on the engine tin..

I have had many guys with low mileage LEs and other clean restos that wanted an engine that was exactly as it was from the factory.

When those guys come to me I take off the performance hat and use that enthusiasm on the attention to detail to make the engine just like it was off the showroom floor.

I can do this better than most people because I know all the little pieces and trim thatthe factory used, not many people know exactly whats supposed to be there.

In this instance attention to detail matter in a different context

Money, money, and more money.

Time, time and more time.

It will cost $20-$30k depending on your choices, and it'll take two or three years depending on how much time you're able to spend. If you think you can do it for less than that, you're dreaming.

I was dreamin!
Im on yr two


Ok so, Jake Id be real interested in that Wisdom why dont you post in the concours fourm?

I agree with Mark. Mine came in right around $25K. Took about 3 years to get it near complete.

The pitfalls are having enough time, money and sticktoittiveness to get it done. And a few parts are getting very hard to find.

One piece of advice is to determine what you want the end result to be. Whether your car is a frequent driver, fair weather only driver, concours competitor, or track car will/should influence your decision making, timing and cost.

Driving the finished project will bring smiles, smiles and more smiles to your face! It is very rewarding to think back through the process! Nearly everytime that I take my car out I have someone come over to me and relate to a previous 914 ownership experience. Or, someone ask what kind of car it is. To a car fanatic, and 914 addict, this is GREAT!

More than a few times throughout the process, I thought that I would not drive the car much in order to keep it in perfect condition. And I thought that I would never, ever drive it in the rain. Thankfully! these thoughts went away very quickly after driving the car a few times. The finished project is WAAAAYYYY too much fun to further consider not driving it!!! I've got 4000 miles on it in the first year. And she's been in a downpour and survived just fine. Winter weather is here now (the salt went down on the roads) so now the car is pretty much put up for the season. I am already looking forward to topping 4000 miles in year 2.

GO FOR IT!!!

pete, im in the middle of mine...and i must say...dont try it unless you have the funds...otherwise it gets really really frustrating....im lucky that im an extremely patient person

I'll second the having one car to drive, and another one in restoration. There's nothing worse than looking at your immortalized car and knowing that you've just scratched the surface after months of work. You'll probably get to the point where it makes you sick to even think about the car, but with luck you'll solider on. Having another car to drive in the mean time is very, very therapeutic.

A "ground up" restoration is roughly equal to working 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, for a full year. A high end show quality restoration is roughly twice that. That is just the labor. Then there's parts, and if the $700 new targa seal is the only thing standing between you and driving, well, you'll pay it. Once you've got a "perfect" chassis all painted and beautiful you'll be compelled to require as many new parts as money and supply will permit. That's how you can have $30k into a 914-4 that's worth $15k (assuming you can find a buyer of course).

Oh, and don't ever use the excuse that "you're never going to sell it" to justify the madness. "Never" has a funny way of sneaking up on the best of us.

Bitter.. no... I'm not bitter

I started mine about 7 years ago.. still not done. During the course of the 7 years,I ordered a new 996 Twin & Audi S/4 bought another-4, and a 83 320i BMW to mess with.

Have I lost steam, yes some times for months at a time.
Good luck and bring a LOTS of $ and patience

The flares and body/paint price alone can sometimes exceed the value of the car if someone else does all the work. I welded mine on myself and I see no reason why you can't do the same. It's not difficult, just time consuming and at times frustrating.

Only way to really come out is to build it, keep it and drive it many years. Lot's of projects started don't get finished. First is the lack of funds to do it which slows it down. Then the time factor takes it's turn and interest is many times lost....

Check out the Dec issue of Excellence. It has part 1 of my 914 3.6 restoration\build project. It covers planning and goal setting pretty extensively. The previous comments about money requirements are dead on. Unfortunately, to do it right, there is no avoiding it. Sticking with a 4 cyl will of course save significant money.

Personally (others may feel differently) I wouldn't start until you have at least 50% of the money stashed with future money being available. In your case, probably $12K. If you can't make progress, it will become an irritant. It does for me anyway.

My biggest problem, and I suspect others feel the same, is that once you start really doing a nice job and assembling the car, you will refuse to bolt parts on that you had no intention of replacing when the project started. That's what really gets you in trouble! Crappy looking parts hanging on a crappy car don't look too bad until you bolt them on a refinished car!


Watching a car transform from a piece of junk to a beauty is a very fun and rewarding experience.................it simply requires lots of energy, time,$$ and garage space.

Good Luck!

I am in the middle of this process, and everything that has been said so far is correct. Am I glad i started this? SOMETIMES... do I feel like sellin git and chalking it up to experience? SURE.

But I think that when i am done, and the $30K is spent, it will be very close to a car i have been dreaming about for all of my adult life.

I have MUCHO pics on my photobucket account. just search for gopack42 to see them. also check my progress thread in my signature.

Because I don't really "Like" to use my labor for efforts like this.. It's time that could be much better spent making the engine more efficient..

When jobs like these come along they are not cheap to do because labor is labor no matter if I am making 200HP or 100 HP. It can take longer to make an engine internally and cosmetically perfect stock as making a 200HP beast...

And the clients are generally more interested in looks than the internals being perfect and thats just now the way I prioritize things..

Wow - ignore a post for the w'end and look at what happens! THANKS for all the excellent feedback, exactly what I was looking for.

Sounds like there are a few underlying themes:

Time: I'll have six months where I won't be working before grad school starts

Money: I could use about $15k from savings then I have a garage full of parts which could be sold to support the habit, er project.

Garage Space: Not spacious but decent garage/workspace

Dedication: More than I should realistically, given my history w/these cars...



My conclusion, prob won't go for the full ground up restore. I've got a total of 3 914's, all in different states of repair/disrepair. I'll use the funds I've squirreled away for getting 2 or the 3 914's purring.

I did something very, very close to a resto - While I am a well educated wrench, I am not a body man and lay no claim as such.

I took BlackSabbath down to the tub. I then had it baking soda blasted in a local ship yard. ( cost -$600 bucks and environmentally clean were two objectives I sought and found)

After I brought the car home and examined every square inch. Made about 25 general repairs to the basic tub alone. Bought specialty equipment I needed (mig welder, tooling, etc) and searched high and low for best possible deals.

I added fiberglass fender flares and rockers, worked tirelessly on them, but it only seemed more time than actually was.

Took every single hard part removed from tub and meticuosly cleaned, inpsected, repaired /modified, and painted. This was the real time consumer!

Rebuilt my engine for all of 600 bucks total - found many, many good deals. Local VW shop had some T4 HP stuff laying on shelves for years, dude hooked me up! Also hooked me up with head work and case prep.

ALL of this was done in my front yard! No garage, no cover, exposed to all the elements. I began in Sept and finished in March. (figure what I went through with weather)

If it were not for the fact I lost my job, the final bodywork and paint would have been A+. But as such, I just took it to Maaco and had them "Smooth it over".

Good thing is, I can always take it to a professional anytime for the real deal-

All told, Seven months and 7 grand. This included original purchase price, parts, and maaco - if you were to add my labor at shop rate of 65 an hour it is around $109,200 dollars. 7 Months, or - 210 days @ 8 hours a day X $65.00 an hour for 1680 hours invested -

Brings new meaning that I will never, and my grandchildren X 5 down the line, would still not see a return on investment -

BUT I DON'T CARE - It runs and drives like a rabid go-kart -grinning all the way!