I need this thing to have some baselines pretty quickly. Basically I really need this thing to be like a weekend project in order for me to get to work/school on a monday or something.

at least something is needed to get it to idle, I plan on using a WBo2 sensor to aid megatune to tune my engine, I also plan on first using 'fuel-only' function in MS for now, and then add spark using the hall effect system(or optical?) that VW actually employed for the vanagons.


any help would be appreicated, i'm still in building phases( collecting needed small parts, etc.) but would like some gameplan.

Is it easy enough to add spark after the unit is programmed?

Britt

Set up the general settings like the # of cylinders, port injection, alternating and # of injections for your car. the default map will probably start it, then you can tune the idle. With the WBO2 set up and auto tuning enabled you should have a map pretty quickly.

I found a wide band 02 sensor is the best sensor and you use the learn circuit....

what about connectors? I was thinking about going with the L-Jet connector and hollow out the ECU and use the pins for MS when I get that installed. I think that would be trick.

Why would you change connectors unless they are bad?

I just posted all my MS settings in toon1's post about a week ago. Those settings should get the basically running if nothing else, as long as you wire the sensors in a similar way and use an MSII (or you can use the settings to create a map for an MSI manually, there might also be software to help with that).

I don't recommend putting the MS box into a stock ECU box. It is a bad idea for several reasons including:

1. it gets too hot in the engine compartment
2. environmental exposure, esp moisture
3. hard to access for repairs, tweaks, and firmware reflash
4. you will need to find a place for your wideband controller anyway, put the MS nearby along with the fuses and injector resistors.

I see.

Well I guess DB-25 it is. I plan on making/crimping on all 25 leads, but only using what I need and then filling the connector housing area up with two-part epoxy to reduce vibration problems.

WTG! Britt! Learn how to get that thing working. I'm going to use MS on Sandy's Healey. (1300 Suzuki Swift Twin Cam ) I may be asking for your help.

Yeah...when I ask questions though, people like to assume I know more than the factory does.

Rick, I'll try to learn this thing, I will let YOU know when I get done.

So far I have the L-Jet working PERFECTLY.

OK, im out.

I have two packages to send, and then im gone.

So you and Mike wont have to dick with the '18 year old who knows more than the factory'

hijack OFF

i'm actually 20 though. I dont need this.

is "Happyland"???

Dude! I met this kid. He's very bright. You should be so lucky to have his gift. I know you think your just being funny, but Britt is really trying to learn these cars. When he asks a serious question you should at least try to help. After he gets his MS working you'll want his assistance. Maybe then you'll have to get you help from happy land.

I'm not sure this is the right time for poking fun.

The DB-25 connector on the MS is definitely the weak link in the wiring, but you can do it right. Potting the connector body with epoxy or some other sealant might not be a bad idea if you are worried about vibration. Just keep in mind that you might have to modify it someday down the road as new features are added to the MS, or you want to add ignition, or whatever.

I used a crimp style shell and crimp pins, but I didn't like the lack of strength of the crimps my crappy tool was making, so I went back and put a tiny amount of solder on each pin for some extra security. You have to be careful, because if you add too much solder the pins won't fit into the shell.

Brit, i apologize. ( jabs deleted )

I saw your post on jake's board ( #61 ) and let it bother me.

be yourself.
I know a few of those threads last week got a few people riled up.

I'd help you if i could.


KT

cool...now lets help Britt so he get his MS to work. It wasn't too long ago that he was going to dump 914's...

I think the Autotune is the first step to get it running ok. Then you can play with it, Britt.

I still need to get going on my MS project. (lack of funds )

I'm in several tight spots right now, and I'm trying to ask "experts" on L-Jet *WHY* certain things are needed, and WHY they function. I know HOW they work already, i'm going one step further.

Potting the DB-25 would be a bad idea unless I channeled all 25 pins into a seperate relay/logic board to split off to various connections in a clean fashion using some really tough connector. But then again, if I potted it and then wanted to add a feature, I could just buy a new DB-25 connector. I'd rather pot the connectors with epoxy or some resin and have it stay together for the long run rather than being on the side of the road at midnight (or later) with a tiny flashlight trying to crimp wires back onto a connector with my teeth.

I think I may fashion some warning light lamp to illuminate if the head temps get beyond 400F, and then energize a mist cooling system to spray a mist of some undetermined substance to aid in cooling while I look for an exit. I've heard several accounts in thsi pseudo-watercooling lowering temps by 40F or more.

Trek, sorry about my comment. I literally fixed my throttle cable using picture hanging wire from HD last weekend. It broke at 4am saturday.

Thank you,

Converting it all in a weekend and getting it base tuned is a stretch. That's a great goal, if you can do it props to you.

I have all my MS build pics in my signature. I put the brain under the dash and ran the DB37 cable to a 2nd relay box behind the drivers side firewall. I have heard of people having problems with soldering and crimping pins. However I believe that if you use the proper tooling and crimp properly you won't have problems. I borrowed a real crimper and got the job done. You should also strain relief the cable at both ends and not rely on the mechanical retention mechanism on the box/board.

You can easily setup MS to trigger an alarm if your "coolant temp" goes over a certain value. However keep in mind to date I don't know of a way to setup warm up enrichment without scaling your temp sensor output. Warm up enrichment is set to shut off at max 180F, so far.... unelss they've changed the firmware. For me it doesn't really matter.

IMO cooling the heads with a water mist when head temps are over 400F is after the fact. I would try to devise a method to either retard timing or richen the mixture if thats the culprit. Head temps are an indication that your combustion is running too hot. I believe you shuold be cooling from within (combustion related, not heatsink related). My thoughts are that your engine will fail from high temp due to a mechanical failure of valves, seats, warped surfaces, etc... the head temp sensor doesnt respond quick enough to a sudden change in temp.

Just a though... interesting idea though. Let me know what you decide to do.

Good luck!

btw- the cabling is DB-37, not db-25.

As far as spark goes, I did fuel first and got it all tuned in decently. After a few motnhs I switched over to spark as well. Froze a 009 dizzy with epoxy. Rewired the coil and pertronix and i was good to go. Set the base timing using a timing light. Used Dave's spark table, runs a little hotter but not far above 375F or so.

MS ROCKS!

yarin,

You can scale the warmup threshold, it is kind of a hack and I don't know how far you can change it (ie. it might not go over 255 or something), but here is how you do it.

Change the idle controller to the stepper kind in the idle setup menu. Change the max number in the stepper table to whatever you want the highest number in your WUE to be. You can change the other steps as well.

Change the idle controller back to whatever you had (for me, it's off completely since I am using an AAR). In the warmup wizard you should see the change.

Cool huh?


Oh and Geoff, autotune is not the way to set up a base map. It would take way too long. You need a copilot to tune while you drive. It only takes an hour or two of driving to get a decent tune. The hardest part is part throttle, especially on a 1.7 where it is really easy to go to WOT with just a slight touch of the throttle. Once you have a basic working map that isn't going to kill the car, autotune is good for refining it. Actually what works the best is saving a big log file and running the new mslogviewer on it along with your AFR targets and current VE table, it will sift through the data and come up with new VE values for you to upload to the ECU. Way cool.

You're correct sir, it is DB-37. I remember thinking it was bigger than 25, but forgot that fact. I like your solution with the overtemp deal. I was discussing this with a friend of mine, and he thought the water cooling was too much junk..he liked the idea of richening the mix or retarding timing. Both sound good to me But you're correct again, that I should probably fix the underlying problem instead of patching things. I just wanted something to kick in as temp approached 400, the timing would go down to aleviate this, a la emergency limp mode or something. Warm-up enrichment cut off at 180F is alright, I dont see why I'd need much higher than that anyway. I also plan on using a IAC system if its not too hard, but may chicken out at the last moment and just leave it as-is.

180 is for water cooled cars.

It turns out (on my car) that the engine isn't warmed up until the CHT reads around 300. Depending on how you set up your thermistor settings in MS you can represent that number in different ways. I scaled mine by 1/2, so a CHT temp of 300 reads as 150 in megasquirt. Thus my warmup needs to terminate around 145-150F as opposed to the 180 default. There are other ways to do it but this was one of the easier ones.

Head temps really should never get to 400F. If so there is a problem with your system. Any severe increase in head temps is typically caused by improper tuning, excessive environmental conditions or component failure.

BTW - i'm a big fan of running dual head temp sensors. One factory and one under the #1 spark plug. Just in case somethign isn't balanced (ie: air leak, clogged injector, etc)

jkeyzer - thanks for the info, i'll add it to my list of STD this winter.

why not #3?

MS has program out now called easy therm. You can download the program a seperate from MT. It had a Bosch table in there for air cooled motors using CHTS.

Once the settings are made you can then load that info into the processor via the bootloader.

Just my .02

cool. you mean the thermocouple CHT like the vdo setup, or the stock kind?

the stock CHTS. You can go on MS forum web site and download the file and take a look. You do not have to have MT downloaded