i am ordering a tarett bar ..and amd not sure what size i should go?
the car will be street and auto-cross....
thanks

We need details on the rest of the setup. Torsion bar sizes spring rates, and other modifications.

Then duck and cover, cause it will rain down bullets outta a C-130 gun ship.

There is only one size of Tarett sway bar - makes it an easy choice!

Wow Stephan you must be old like me! I spent 22 years in the military and I don't think I have seen a C-130 gunship configured since Viet Nam! Could be wrong though... I was a medical officer so what do I know!

Sway bar- go big!!

I highly suggest a Smart...


KT

They were used in the Gulf War and in Iraq. I've seen some film clips. I don't know if they were Vietnam era or more recent versions.

Robby, I am not that old, unless you ask my kids. I just happened to work on a bunch of odd projects, (military contractor) after I got out of college. It is best that I forget that life, really can't talk about it for another 62 years.

Tacitly the C-130 makes a wonderful platform for short to medium range fire capabilities. Still with in the range of most AA and all SAMs, but if you need concentrated fire power in remote location, they are the best!!! And yep we still use them.

Some times the old ways are the best ways. They have been modified to keep up with current military technology.

The videos I see don't do them justice. With armor piecing rounds they can make a tank battalion look like swiss cheese in 10 minutes. It is a Galliger method of opening fruit. Sure you can open a watermelon with a single shot, but if you want to leave an impression, nothing does it like leaving nothing.

On the bar, Smart makes a very nice unit.

2 things to look for really one, adjustability. Everybody gets wrapped up in bar size, it must be a male genitalia thing. But if you have adjustability the size does not matter as much. It still does matter just not as much.

I went big, 29mm big on my front bar. I have enough adjustment to make it as soft as a stock 914 front bar, or as hard as a brick wall.

The key is adjustability. With out it you will never be able to tune it correctly. But again if we knew the rest of the setup, and what you where trying to get to, we could probably help even more. Right now it is like shooting fish in a barrel. Sure I can hit a bunch of them, but don't know if I ever get the right one.

So please let us know what and where you are going and we can probably get you close to 80% Heck most of us can even translate Nastalk!!! The language you learn form watching a Nascar racin' on how a car handles.

But the entire package is what makes the car handle not just one component.

James is right... Tarret has 1 size: 22mm (effective - the real diameter is slightly larger cause the bar is hollow)

i don't think you'd run out of bar rate with a 22mm (effective).

With the Tarret bar I've finally settled on 275# rear springs...no rear bar.
The front bar is set about mid point.

But it is a balancing act here JP whats your front TB sizes? It all has to be factored in yah know.

Unless you are just running on the bump stops!

Aye, a balancing act it is......21mm T bars.

even with a 22.... the difference between full soft and full hard is amazing in terms of its effective spring rate. soft or hard, it will work.

i have yet to buy my torsion bars.....i am unsure which size to get...but i need a set too, the old sc bars are all rusty, and a tad pitted....

Pete,

are you new at this or have you been tracking cars for years?

Most newbies learn faster on a soft setup (what I have peronsally observed in 914's)


B

i am as newbie as they come....the most racing i ever did was on a road bicycle when i was 17-20....

i am putting togather my second six project...for track and street...
i live 10 mins from the Mission race track...
But i have sooooo much to learn before getting on a track...
so i was hoping to auto cross for a season or two first.....

Oh that is tough.

the old stand by was 21mm front TB
140-180 lbs rear springs and a 22 mm front bar, with Koni

Now this is where it goes astray.

It is easier for a newb to learn to control the car on a softer suspension casue the learn about weigth transfer.

Auto-x and road racing are two completely different animals.

I tend to think you can learn to do both, well but to excell oly one can win. Was was brought up to be an ultra smooth driver. Probally much better suited for road courses than, auto-x. Or at least that is my feeling with the current setup.

I ran soft front TBs and soft rear springs than most auto-xers do. I had a 22mm front bar, and a stock rear bar. My 914 rolled to much into the curves and exceeded the suspension drop. Partly due to the soft front end, and partly due to the chassis twisting.

When I was ultra smooth I would carry the rear tire and have to wait for it to come down. If I would attack the course and give faster peaks ( transisions ) then it would not carry the tire as long and I would get faster times.

So here would be my suggestion.

Up the front to 21mm front Torsion bars.
Use a 22mm tarret or smart - I prefer the smart you can swap in larger swaybars later with out retrofiting the car.

Replace your bushings, poly-bronze or Muller Rollers - make a huge difference. Out back add a set of adjustable spring pearches and QA1 springs, they are cheaper than the 914 specific items. Go with a set of 175lbs, spring length is a very debated subect.

Corner balance, look for a Roll bar, or minium an Egmann Kit

Koni's at all 4 corners - will help tune the chassis.

Best bang for the best bang are tires, and shocks, after that I would say bushings, just from personnel experience. the rest is icing.

Good alignment and corner-balance. That will get you close to 80% for a street driver / track car.

My own experience:
As Stephen said, it's about balance and this can be elusive.

From my base set-up.....21mm t bars, Tarret front bar, Bilsteins all around,
200lb rear springs..no rear bar 225 Hoosiers all around.
With the AR bar full soft the car pushed and would smoke the inside rear tire
on occasion.....not lift clear, but unload enuff to spin.

I'm afraid I didn't attack this in a thoughtful way....I went to 225lb rear springs, then 250s....still pushed & smoked. A diversion to 10 X 22 X 16 slicks didn't cure anything, but 300lb springs got rid of the unloaded tire problem....still pushed in tight corners.
I felt that the push was caused by a severe scrub radius problem brought on by the 10 wide wheels up front....off with em'. I now have a spare set for the rear
Some custom valved Bilsteins came in here somewhere.

Up front, I went with 8 X 15 Fuch & R35 Cantilevers.....*didn't change anything else*...
the way it should be done, I guess. We now had oversteer everywhere.....that I can deal with. Started tightening up the front bar.....1 inch, 1.5 inch, 2 inches...wait, changed the rear springs to 275lbs...still no tire unloading another .5 inch tighter on the front bar.....now we're in biddness.....then the rear tires went away just in time for the Parade AX....can you say loose?..shitfuck. Learnt about tire conditioners and got it back to reasonable.

So this next season, it's all new stickey buns. That and a weight loss (I need to get down to 1700 lbs including driver)& new class for SCCA & hope for the best.

Pete,

How you doing?

Taking all this in??

I wouldnt run the larger bars with the Tarret (I speak from experience) this is fine for a road race car, but lets start a little softer on the t-bars. I suggest the Koni's on all 4 corners and at least the 175' s in the rear for your 9146. This will work very well for you at AutoX. You'll have just enough adjustability to keep you busy between rounds but not overwhelm you.

When the track time comes around.. step up on the front bars and rear springs (225lb)


B

thanks Brad!
now where does one find some torsion bars....what vendors?
and why konis over billys..

I would stick with the stock SC T bars.
Cheep, used. Put a WTB ad on pelican 911 parts.
If you have Boge struts (most SCs were) go with Konis
for the adjustability. If you have Bilstein struts, go with Bilstein (Sports are an option)...cause nuthin else fits.....simple, eh?

silly question.....koni inserts are available as inserts only and will fit the stock sc strut??
as opposed to buying the whole strut assembly with billies....
.....................................
now i am looking for some stock t bars....mine are all rusty and pitted
.............................................
any opinion on the cross member...
andy says go with steel....i have both steel and alum sitting

The Koni inserts will fit the Boge struts....Boge are black, Bilstein are green....or were back in SC days.

The Aluminum is lighter and somehow the SCs/Carreras (which are 400+lbs heavier than 914s) got along with the supposed flex. If I had an Aluminum jobbie I'd put it in....but then, I'm trying to make weight. If you don't use it lemmeno & I'll buy it from you....if its cheep