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Sorry to hear about that, Andy. Looks like the damage isn't toooo bad. Frame still sound?

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Crap, that sucks. Hope the BMW was worse.

Ferg

Ouch, that sucks. You didn't get slapped with a 13/13 penalty, did you?

well that sucks.....

sorry to see it happen andy

sorry about that...
dang....

thank god only the car was hurt and no people.

(not that this will cheer you up, but at least its fixable and in a year this will all be behind you)

brant

Sux! M3's are tail happy. I'm too far away to help with the damage, sorry.

Sorry to hear about this.

What speeds during the incident?

Sounds like you are OK though, right?


KT

Andy, I feel your pain. as you know I lust for your car. it is on my top 5 list of 914s. in case you are reading: others that made the list would be 914 RS, Joes blue six and of course the most road-trippin-est Elvira.

did the M3 driver continue participating? you must be understating "MAD" to have been thrown out

Andy that sucks. Let me know if you need a hand with anything. I might have a taillight housing you can have - if I can find it.

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Talk about a bad day. At least it's a pretty simple fix.

How common is it to have contact? I've seen a couple nice cars get punted, and I'm wondering if it's worth spending the money on the go fast stuff and having a disposable car for track use.

Thanks Travis,
I actually have a spare taillight assembly. I am trying to borrow a porta-power to push out the corner.

I am very thankful that no one what hurt. The friends girlfriend who was with me, really got the ride of her life as we were spinning after the impact.

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Glad that you're OK, but I am sorry this happened.

Glad you're ok Andy. Sucks about the car.

Sorry to hear this Andy.

I mentioned in the Paddock a few weeks back about "figuring out" who the people are in your area attending events that *shouldnt* be and staying AWAY from them on the track. I know is hard to do..

Hopefully this guy will learn.

This stuff pisses me off



B

Sorry Andy. As they say: "That's Racing". (or DE in this case) There's not much you can do to avoid the incident when you get nailed in the back. You knew the risk when you took the green flag. I'm glad nobody got hurt and that Wild 6 is not worse. You'll get it fixed and be back out there in no time
Hey - ..... at least you gave your passenger a ride she will never forget.

And remember, it's only money.




M3 driver.
There is lots of room on the outside at PIR turn 9. There is NO reason for contact there at a DE. Sorry you lost you cool, but you had a good reason.)

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Sorry about the car. Glad everyone's okay...

What can I say . . . . . I prolly would have enjoyed it to.
Talk about a Wild Ride in the Wild 6.

Sorry 'bout the car.

Happy noone got hurt and hopefully this event will cover you for the next few years incident free as in averages and all.

which of the many m3's did you get hit by?

was it the "ravensport" one?

glad your ok.
its only metal.

when you get tapped on the track does the other driver pay anything typically?

-jim

total bummer....I wonder if the M3 owner will try to pass the damages onto his insurance....

So what is the protocol in DE when something like this happens. To me it seems that there is clear fault and the other driver should be writing you a check for the repairs.

Most organizations make you sign a waiver before any track action that basically says anything that happens to your car is your problem and not anyone else's, regardless of who may be to blame.

There is something called the 13/13 rule. In a nutshell - if you are involved in an on track incident, and it is your first time, you go on probation for 13 months. If you are involved in a second incident during that probation period, you are then banned for 13 months.

This is intended to keep everyone in check, and hopefully prevent the yahoos from coming out thinking it is NASCAR. Rubbing certainly is _not_ racing at club events.

negative. one assumes the risk when one puts it on the track. track insurance is obtainable, and rather pricey. regardless, contact is a foreseeable risk.

no DE-type events that i've heard of have a 13/13 rule -- given the number of organizations that run these types of events, it would be almost useless anyway.

i'm SUPER glad that no one was hurt fix it and get back out there!

I certainly understand the risk which is why I haven't tracked either of my cars yet.

I still think a case could be made against a negligent driver. It's not racing. There are rules in DE that are supposed to be followed. If someone is grossly negligent out on a track (not saying that is the case here) I think a case could be made in court regardless of what was signed.

Yep. If somone hits me I'd be mildly pissed off, but I certainly wouldnt expect them to pay for anything. I would expect just as much risk in a DE event where skills vary so greatly. How can you hold somone accountable if they are just learning limits of their car etc?

Glad everyone was ok!

Best case scenario is that the errant driver steps up and offers to help out with the expenses.

there is risk tracking a car, plain and simple.
The "rules of the road", "right of way", and "at fault" do not apply here...


KT

Sharyl Toon. He just painted my Bumble Bee, also did Jack Amen's car and Bruce Martz's 914. He is in Peoria and knows his stuff. Call me if you need a phone number.

if someone is grossly neglegent (like driving the wrong direction on the track or speeding through the paddock), then you may, indeed, have a case. still, the 'rules' aren't actually that clearly defined.

Dave Vodden (track manager of Thunderhill) wrecked a 1 year old 996GT3Cup car coming out of turn 13 and put into the wall. The passenger in the car was the owner.. HE ATE THE CAR. Dave was in the hospital with a collasped lung.

I have yet to see a racer offer up to pay for a mistake.

Last years 25hr Thill race we watched a small piece of shit BMW move over on a fully race prepared/freshly built 964RSA. Overbeek was driving and ran it up one of the hills and flipped several times. The BMW itself wasnt worth the value of the wheels and tires on the RSA. That driver never apologized. NASA's requirements for you to run the event are VERY steep. You dont just walk up and run... but there are still stupid people who meet the requirements everywhere..everytime.



B

The recent fatalities at DE events (the infamous Ferrari club / Carrera GT crash comes to mind) only serve to reinforce the inherent risks. There will be yahoos that slip through the filters. As Trek said, at the track, rules of the road do not apply. Unless you buy special insurance, you are not covered for vehicle damage. Everyone knows this. I do get a little nervous each time I go out, but I have accepted that it is risky to do this. However I personally feel it is safer than running the gauntlet on the interstate everyday to get to work. At least at the track, I know these people properly maintain their vehicles (and I trust our technical inspection process). That Ferrari club incident was tragic, but all those people involved knew their risks. If someone is truly afraid that something bad might happen, my advice to them is to stay home.

I've had this conversation with a few people in my short time as a DE addict. Yes, I know it is dangerous. Yes, I know my car could get destroyed. Yes, I know that in that event, my insurance won't give me one cent for the vehicle and if I damage the facility (armco, kerbing, etc) I have to pay for that repair out of my pocket. I do everything in my power to make sure my vehicle is safely prepared and that I am conducting myself in as safe a manner as possible. Yes, sometimes sh** happens, but that is b/c you can't control everything. It sucks about Wild6's car, but it happened at the track (on track), and shouldn't be treated any differently than if the car was struck by lightning. We are just glad that no person was injured (though I certainly sympathise with Wild6, and I would probably have gone a little bezerk too because I know how expensive repairs will be)

Each time one of these accidents happen, there is a flurry of talk over fault, blame, and who should get sued. That doesn't benefit anyone.

I guess this is a bad time to ask about posting my bmw/track car project? I believe in the case of rear-ending you the bmw driver should pay!!If I rear-ended you and you approarced my angry, I'd strip, wrap my arms and legs around you and hand you my wallet!I own 3 bmws including a m3 and a (non-running 914 of course) and I lurk here more than any of the bmw sites.Glad it looks like a easy fix!

I used to take my 914 and M3 to PCA and BMWCCA DE events here in Phoenix. I even did a few NASA events. Not any more. What changed my mind was the first time I went out in another guy's race car. He had a full roll cage, a fuel cell, integral fire extinguishing, a full racing bucket seat, full Nomex suit, five-point harness, and other safety equipment. In my 914 and M3, I had - a standard street seat belt, a helmet, street clothes, and a simple bottle fire extinguisher. And while the race car was faster than my street cars, they were still fast enough that the lack of safety equipment compared to the race car was still a big issue.

I decided then that the only way I'd be getting back on the track was in a race car, properly suited up - if ever.

BTW, I was at a BMWCCA event several years ago at Firebird, driving my 914. I was following a prepped E36 M3, driven by the wife of the chief driving instructor, her husband in the passenger seat. My passenger was a friend of mine who was an instructor. The 914 was much slower on the straight, but I easily caught up to her in the tight infield and was clearly faster on a lap time basis. I made this clear by approaching, but not riding her bumper. Rule is that if you see this going on (and it did, lap after lap), the front car is to wave you by on the straight. I realized she wasn't going to, ever, so I settled in behind at a safe distance. I guess this was too much pressure for her, as she eventually clipped the berm going into turn 11, and stuffed the M3 into the wall approaching turn 12, pretty much totalling it, about 30 feet in front of me. Luckily, nobody was injured - but yes, major accidents do happen at DE events, even highly-regulated ones like the BMWCCA runs. I also saw a guy total his Acura NSX at PIR at a NASA event in a much higher-speed incident.

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That is great! My guess is however that you won't ever see him at the track again....

wow -- that's really going above and beyond for club racing arizona!

congrats, i hope the guy comes through.

Wow Glad a bad situation has a silver lining. Apparently the club likes you

Wow Andy, I just caught up on this thread. Will you be at the PCA AX on Saturday?

I'll be towing the autocross trailer with my truck. The car is staying at home since I won't have my street exhaust until next week and it's too loud to run with the racing headers. It's drivable, just not very pretty.

Yes Andy, I will get you his phone number.

I have been following this thread closely as I do a lot of DE events. Club Race AZ runs a really good event and tells you that if you cause damage to some one else, you pay. This is also true at ProAutoSports, another AZ club race group. I recall similar wording from the local PCA DEs also.

An iteresting item about ProAutoSports, at the required class for all first time drivers in one of their events, Larry Pond who is the owner, stated that he is a driving instructor recognized by the State of AZ and major insurance companies. He further stated that if you are participating in the DE part of their weekends, you should be covered by your insurance and he will go to bat for you if there are problems. He also stated that they have been successful in the past getting insurance to cover costs.

MW914, I'll bet the driver will cover the costs. The owners of Club Race AZ for the most part are very active in BMW club racing also. Marty, one of the CRA leaders, is the President of the BMW Club. CRA generally conducts the BMW Club track events.. If this guy wants to get out on the track in the future, he will have to deal with these same people.

Bummer Andy. I remember posting pictures of your car from RRC and people requesting a full size image so they could make it their wallpaper. We all share in your loss. Looks like it will be back in no time. Nice to see people already offering parts. That's what this club is about

I missed this when it was first posted.

I'm glad that it looks like you're getting compensated for your loss... hopefully, it will work out fairly for everyone and the other driver learned a valuable lesson.

-Lawrence

Thanks Eric. This club really rocks. Lots of great people, information and support when life sends you a new challenge.