Okay here is the story and delimia.

I currently run Kuhmo Victoracers, how much better are the Hoosier A6s and Kumho V710s.

Okay I know that going from Hipo street tires Yoko's to my Kumho's is like night and day. Is it the same difference steping up to a V710 or A6 from the Victoracers. I can't run slicks in these classes. Or else I would!

AX I presume?

they are appreciably better. they all drive a little bit different. by the time you figure them out, you need a new set.

from victoracers, figure about 6/10ths to 12/10ths faster per run.

Also, from looking at tire rack, 205/50/15 may not be available
any more in the Victoracer

Your topic said Slicks so here is my 2 cents on slicks vs 710's

SIGNIFICANT. OMG the grip is awesome compared to DOT tires.

However they absolutley need hat to stick. cold days and they are pretty much worthless.

But in 100 degree heat with back to back drivers. I attained 150-160 temps and while others were watering down the Hoosiers and 710's I was skipping in line to get more runs.
grip didn't fall off till about 50 runs. and were still putting the car in top 1 or 2 at 100 runs.

Didn't we hear that 710's are the "winningest" tire in SCCA a/x?


KT

I recently went from Victoracers to 710's. For my car it made a huge difference especially for AX. I couldnt get any heat into my Victoracers in AX events. 710's ran much warmer and stuck good. On a long AX course I'd say they are worth a second or more.

Here are some GRM test results:

http://www.grassrootsmotorsports.com/image...15_tiretest.pdf

I read GRM then I forget most of what is written

Here is the issue, In NASA you can't run a true slick unless you goto TTR or TTU ( basicly unlimited classes )

The V710s and A6s carry a heavy point option with them, which would bump me a class. I run in one of the largest NASA classes here. I beat or run with in a 10th of a second to the guys the next class up. TTE is very competative which makes it fun. TTD 2-3 cars show, and mabye none. My car is not a TTOD car right now, so if I do take hte V710s I would have to bump a class. It is all about decisions. I bump a class I have a new set of points to play with. And would have about 17 points left, which could be used for a campaign of extreme weight reduction. But in reality the driver needs it mor than the car.

Yeah looking at the tire rack it looks like the Victoracers are gone in hte 205/50R-15 size. They might have made my choice for me. I will not run the next Kumho bellow that, which is the street tire I run on my Jetta.

Do Avon or Hankook DOT slicks take similar points hit?

Do Avon or Hankook DOT slicks take similar points hit?
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I imagine that the line in the sand is tread wear rating. Isn't the spec tire for some classes this year the Toyo RA-1

I describe hoosiers as "crack" You always chase the feeling after you've driven on them.

they were in 2005. i don't know about 2006. the A6 is supposed to be pretty damn fast.

Frankly for the enthusiast AX driver there isnt going to be much difference in either tire. Its not until you are looking at improving your time by hundreths of a second that the difference between a 710 or A6 might be apparent. I certainly couldnt feel much difference between Hoosiers and 710's other than the hoosiers feeling like they stuck a little bit more.

If the NASA points system is based on treadwear rating you might consider going with a hoosier Road Race DOT slick. Hankooks come in a vareity of compounds too.

I have attached the rules for the tires. Very intuitive isn't it. Basically if you think it does not have enough tread to drive on the road in the rain, it is a DOT-R "Slick" I am a crazy SOB at times. I have driven some pretty scary stuff, at speed in the rain. A set of DOT "Slicks" would be really nothing different, it would be like driving my Jetta in the rain. My TDI really needs at least 2 wheels driving (LSD), and would benefit with all 4 doing some form of work.

So in this section alone I take 7 points with the Victorracers. To up to the A6s or even the R6s I would drop 9 points in this section. BTW, the 914-4 starts in TTF ( any 914-4) after that you add points from there. 19 points separate each class. So since the 914-4 carries 15 extra points. Any form of tire upgrade will bump you a class, except running a cheap tire with a 165 section width.

I have been reading good things about the Nitto NT01 as a decent track tire. Probably in similar relm of a Victoracer. I have read its the basic design for next generation Toyo RA1. They come in 205/5015 and they are fairly afordable.

http://www.nittotire.com/tires_nt01.asp

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/f...rd=15&ar=50

Not sure why Kumho shows a V700 still in hte 205/50R15 size. They also show a new V70A which is slightly lighter than the V700 by a couple of pounds, still rated at a tread wear of 50 just like hte V700. the V710 have a tread wear of 30. So I am not sure why the tirerack does not show the size still and they dont show the V70A yet either.

The Nitto's have a Tread Rating of 100, thats a huge differences. So I think I will look for a set of the new V70A's and see what comes of it next season.

Having run both Hoosiers and 710's, I found that the 710's let you recover.
When the Hoosier's take you beyond the limit, you spin.
The 710's will save you if you back out.


KT

remember the tread wear ratings are only comparable from tire to tire for any particular manufacturer...they really don't relate between different manufacturers.

Trek, that has been my feeling about the hoosiers...after riding in a driving Greg Welch's car, I can say I really don't like the feel of the hoosiers.
That is one reason I have yet to buy any...
I like the feel of the Kumhos better...

My take on the Vitoracers is that they are going to be phased out once Kumho has sold the last of their stock...that is why Tirerack has less than half the sizes they used to stock...
The V70As are probably the replacement/upgrade from the Victors....and the 710 is still the ultimate top of the heap for Kumho.
It is nice they are giving us a choice of tires within their own brand.

Yeah, I know tire wear are not comparible between each brand directly. I have been a Kumho guy for years. V70As look like my cup of tea, for what I do. Best of all I stay in a class that has a bunch of people running, after all it is more fun to run againts a group, and run solo.

No question about it.

My experience with Hoosiers, on a warm day, was that they let you explore "limits" never before experienced with any tire. In my view this was so dramatic it was actually hard to believe.

I believe the trick to securing this performance is figuring out the right pressures.

yeah, but regardless: kumhos are much more progressive. they don't have the same grip, but they are an easier tire to drive. just my 02

You're a man of the world Nathan. You've tried all them there tires


When I first started to drive my car I took Rich Bontempi's advice to just drive and leave the car alone for while. I drove for almost a year on my Yoko's (like DOT slicks), spun a lot, but learned a bunch. I was finishing in the upper third, but no higher. Those Yoko's didn't even look worn after a year.

When I went out with my new Hoosiers and 5 lug conversion, before I installed the cage, times went down about 2 seconds.

Adding the cage was another stair step (1 second) and the racing seat was probably worth half a second. Racing slicks followed and were worth about a second.

Brad making the suspension work was another big improvement, i.e., maybe the biggest.

But the tire that made the biggest impression was the DOT Hoosiers. They were great.

Of couse the big slicks are faster, but you don't get that unbelievable handling feeling, like you did with the DOT's as your corning a lot faster. Hard to explain.

Thanks Randal,

Brad helping diagnose suspension setup has helped me a lot. Even remote across the internet, I dropped a ton of time. I am not putting a cage in but I am adding a roll bar, with petty bar. And the Engman kit, and a few secret additions If my class thins out then, I might bump just to run with a few more people it is allways fun to run in a crowd.

Glad to hear that Brad is helping. He really knows what he is doing.

As to the roll bar, is there some way to tie the roll bar to the front to give the front suspension an anchor point?

On the competition front it is always more fun when you have 3 or more people to run against. Running alone in a class just doesn't do it for me.

You got me thinking what point do you want anchored?

I have a bunch of stiffing in the car, but I can't tie suspension points into the cage structure with out points. But I wonder if with some creative engineering I couldn't get close enough to make it work?

Ah I could just write TTR on the paper and walk away, and do what ever I wanted to the car.