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nine14cats
I'll be taking Lucille out for a track weekend at Thunderhill on December 9th with Hooked on Driving and December 10th with TMR. This will be track days 21 and 22 this year. Pretty good year. Anyone else going?

Forecast is for intermittent rain showers Friday, Saturday and Sunday. I don't drive in the rain but since I've already paid and Doris will be on a business trip I'm going to go anyway. I might get a few sessions in between cloudbursts. And since it's a week away, the forecast is going to change anyway.

Who's in?

Bill P.
Trekkor
I'm going on the 10th...It will be dry :jedi hand wave: yoda.gif


Is Randal coming up to crew/ride/co-drive with you?


KT
nine14cats
Just Trekkor and I?

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

Bill P.
grantsfo

I'll be in Portland with freinds. Be careful on that cold damp surface. We want you to be in one piece for next season.

Have fun!
Terrance
I'll be at hooked on driving this saturday. not driving. my friend's 1st track day, so I'm going to help him out. I'll be in the garage with the cup car parked inside. come say hi.
Brad Roberts
uncle Joe letting you use the garage.. bastard!! How are you "T"???

My friggin company Christmas Party is that night.

Bill,

I asked in another thread.. can you pick me up from the airport??

We will push the cup car outside if we need to make a serious change to the Boxster.

Can I ride with you??

Can I pay and drive??


B
nine14cats
QUOTE(Brad Roberts @ Dec 4 2006, 10:51 AM) *

uncle Joe letting you use the garage.. bastard!! How are you "T"???

My friggin company Christmas Party is that night.

Bill,

I asked in another thread.. can you pick me up from the airport??

We will push the cup car outside if we need to make a serious change to the Boxster.

Can I ride with you??

Can I pay and drive??


B


I must have missed you mention that you were coming in....what day are you flying into San Jose?

I am planning on leaving for Thill around Noon on Friday. Rain is forecast off and on for Friday and Saturday (Hooked on Driving). No rain on Sunday (TMR).

Both groups stuffed me in the Advanced group with open passing. They still remembering me in Fritz even though I told them I'm in a put-put now. If it's raining I will park the car. I don't want to damage it from my mistake in the rain or from someone else's.

I'll have to check with Hooked on Driving about passengers. I'm not sure if you can take one or not. They are pretty strict about some things. That would be Saturday. On Sunday, TMR does allow passengers.

The HOD website is down right now, so I'll have to check later. Since the weather is iffy, I wouldn't burn the time getting here unless you were going to be up here anyway. Last I saw, HOD had openings but TMR was full.

Bill P.
Brad Roberts
I'd fly into SAC airport and just time it correctly for you.

I only planned to come up to help you out. Focus on one thing: setup

Then fly back Sunday night/evening.


B
nine14cats
QUOTE(Brad Roberts @ Dec 4 2006, 03:47 PM) *

I'd fly into SAC airport and just time it correctly for you.

I only planned to come up to help you out. Focus on one thing: setup

Then fly back Sunday night/evening.


B


Ah...now I understand... slap.gif

What time do you need to go back on Sunday or what is the latest flight?

Bill P.
Brad Roberts
Let me check on flights.

I'll be back...


B
Terrance
Brad,

yeah, He's got 2 garages there, if there is some room, we can fit another car. hmm.. the cup car is usually there and the keys inside.

project 914 is slowly coming along. Gave it a break for about 6 months after initial addiction to my shifter kart. Now the car is on stands again ready to be wrenched on.
Brad Roberts
Terrance..

Fly the jet down to pick me up?? even the turbo prop would be fine..LOL

Sounds funny "the keys to the cup car" most people dont beleive me when I tell them the original RSR's have "keys"



B
Terrance
sure, I'll have him send the jet down. $2500/hr. Billable to 914club?

yeah, they all have keys. I recall the 997 cup car has keys too. I laughed at the Factory 993GT2 Evo even has the key with the light on it that actually works too. pretty funny, since my light doesn't work on the 993. :-(
Brad Roberts
QUOTE
sure, I'll have him send the jet down. $2500/hr. Billable to 914club?


Sure! That would be the fastest way to get my ass FRIED by the members!! LOL


B
Randal
QUOTE(nine14cats @ Dec 1 2006, 05:52 PM) *

I'll be taking Lucille out for a track weekend at Thunderhill on December 9th with Hooked on Driving and December 10th with TMR. This will be track days 21 and 22 this year. Pretty good year. Anyone else going?

Forecast is for intermittent rain showers Friday, Saturday and Sunday. I don't drive in the rain but since I've already paid and Doris will be on a business trip I'm going to go anyway. I might get a few sessions in between cloudbursts. And since it's a week away, the forecast is going to change anyway.

Who's in?

Bill P.




Think I'm in Bill. I'll call you later this morning.

Randal
nine14cats
QUOTE(Randal @ Dec 5 2006, 07:46 AM) *

QUOTE(nine14cats @ Dec 1 2006, 05:52 PM) *

I'll be taking Lucille out for a track weekend at Thunderhill on December 9th with Hooked on Driving and December 10th with TMR. This will be track days 21 and 22 this year. Pretty good year. Anyone else going?

Forecast is for intermittent rain showers Friday, Saturday and Sunday. I don't drive in the rain but since I've already paid and Doris will be on a business trip I'm going to go anyway. I might get a few sessions in between cloudbursts. And since it's a week away, the forecast is going to change anyway.

Who's in?

Bill P.




Think I'm in Bill. I'll call you later this morning.

Randal


Randal,

That sounds good. We'll hook up later today. HOD still has spots open. It is $245 for the day. It appears they will have 4 run groups, which would be great. We can have the car get a cool down break between each session.

Brad is going to get back to me about his availability as well.

Bill P.
Brad Roberts
I'm out.

Work just informed me that I have to work our "tent" at the Chargers game this Sunday at 1pm. I have gotten out of it doing any of the sporting events all year. My turn to schmooze the clients. sad.gif

I can think of worse things to do.. LOL, I'm just not a big Chargers fan.

Kinda bums me out...oh well... I'll be asking for a paid day off in Jan.



B
nine14cats
QUOTE(Brad Roberts @ Dec 5 2006, 12:22 PM) *

I'm out.

Work just informed me that I have to work our "tent" at the Chargers game this Sunday at 1pm. I have gotten out of it doing any of the sporting events all year. My turn to schmooze the clients. sad.gif

I can think of worse things to do.. LOL, I'm just not a big Chargers fan.

Kinda bums me out...oh well... I'll be asking for a paid day off in Jan.



B


No Problemo.

There will be other days for sure.

Bill P.
nine14cats
Looks like Saturday with HOD will be mostly dry. I should get in at least 3 sessions before the rain hits on Saturday afternoon. Forecast for TMR on Sunday is mostly rain all day...bummer...

Looks like I'll be coming home early Sunday....

I'm taking off now for the haul to THill.

See you up there on Sunday Trekkor!

P.S. bring your windshield wipers.

Bill P.
Trekkor
I'll get there around 6:30 on Sunday morning.

I'm going with the no rain 'til Sunday evening/Monday morning forecast, myself wink.gif

Maybe I should come up Saturday afternoon idea.gif

KT
grantsfo
I dont know which weather reports you guys have been reading, but everything I have seen says rain fairly steady Saturday and Sunday.

Be careful out there!

What are you guys running for rain tires?
nine14cats
QUOTE(grantsfo @ Dec 8 2006, 12:16 PM) *

I dont know which weather reports you guys have been reading, but everything I have seen says rain fairly steady Saturday and Sunday.

Be careful out there!

What are you guys running for rain tires?


I've been checking weather.com and accuweather.com for their "hourly" forecasts.

I don't have rain tires cuz I don't run in the rain. Rain is no fun. Since I had already paid for both days and there is no rain insurance, I came up here anyway (I'm logged on from the hotel room). If it's bleak at the end of tomorrow, I'll just come home.

Bill P.
Randal
QUOTE(nine14cats @ Dec 8 2006, 02:39 PM) *

QUOTE(grantsfo @ Dec 8 2006, 12:16 PM) *

I dont know which weather reports you guys have been reading, but everything I have seen says rain fairly steady Saturday and Sunday.

Be careful out there!

What are you guys running for rain tires?


I've been checking weather.com and accuweather.com for their "hourly" forecasts.

I don't have rain tires cuz I don't run in the rain. Rain is no fun. Since I had already paid for both days and there is no rain insurance, I came up here anyway (I'm logged on from the hotel room). If it's bleak at the end of tomorrow, I'll just come home.

Bill P.




Just started raining down here Bill. Not sure which way the storm is moving.

Glad you made it OK.
Brad Roberts
I dont understand your fear of the rain. THILL drains very well. All you have to do is change your line for the rain. You really need to learn this. It is a VERY important part of "driving"

I beg and plead for rain. It FORCES you to be smooth.

The tires you have work great in the rain. Slicks work fine in the rain until you start hitting puddles in the apexes.

You have wipers.. as long as it is not POORING rain.. DRIVE. Learn..

Bill,

I try to keep the bullshit down to minimum when I deal with you biggrin.gif please do not let the rain stop you. I seriously beleive it will make you a better driver. If you talk with any SCCA racer they will tell you the mid-engine cars are one of the best cars to race in the rain..

Go slow.. but learn the limits in the rain.


B
DanT
I personally don't care one way or the other about the rain.

It is the other idiots out there that don't respect the fact that the traction is not optimal and do something stupid and either crash in front of you leaving you no place to go or they collect you in their stupidity in some other way like late braking and taking you out from behind...

Just my 2 cents If I could run in the rain with one of these "track" groups with lots of open track and very little if any traffic then I would consider it.

Again, this is why I prefer to run with PCA groups in Norcal since I know many if not most of the drivers and their personal driving habits and abilities.

smile.gif

And I do agree that it is a great learning tool if you can stay out of trouble. One of the best all time drivers, Hans Stuck, is awsome in the rain....love watching him in the rain... biggrin.gif
nine14cats
B,

It's not that I'm afraid of rain at all. It's the other 20 cars on the track where I don't know what they will do. I know some of the drivers in TMR but HOD I really don't know anyone. If only 5 cars are on the track I may think about running.

One thing you have to keep in mind is how we all do risk assessment. In the rain with drivers I don't know. my car is at more risk for damage than when it's dry. And I am the owner/builder. I buy the parts, foot the bills and pay for anything that breaks.

The pro's don't pay for their mistakes or those of others. The car owner does. Since I'm the owner/driver, I pay for my mistakes and those of others. To me, the cost/risk is pretty clear. I'd rather give up the $135 I paid for TMR than have someone wreck my $30K Spec Boxster.

If it was a rungroup of folks I knew well, I'd consider it. But I've run with several groups this year, and the majority of them have cars flying off the track right and left in DRY conditions.

Driving in the rain would be fun to play with car control. And as long as you don't go off sideways at Thill and flip the car, there's plenty of room at Thill to be safe.


Bill P.
Brad Roberts
I hear where you are coming from Bill.

Dont forget.. you have ABS now and traction control..

From what I have seen.. 90% of the people attending these events wont go out in the rain..

I agree about people "collecting" each other up in stupid accidents, but I also know I have enough self control that if somebody is getting anywere near me.. I'm going to slow down/move over/wave them by. I'm capable of figuring out what the limits of their car is (even if they dont know it) a early 911 with NO ABS flying up behind me with an unknown driver.. let him by.. late model 993 that is more worried about his car than mine.. sit back there and rot..LOL (with ABS)

I guess I'm too trusting.



B
Terrance
We're leaving at 4am. Come by and say hi. garage #8, bright blue 350z with 19" blings.
Trekkor
I've driven TH in the rain.

I went off track out of turn 10 and went up the hill 40 feet off the inside of the track, sideways...My ruts are still there. dry.gif

Brake early, heel/toe like mad. I did learn to be smoother.
No lap records in the wet. 3 minute laps...Heh heh.

My wet tires are 195/50/15 Yoko YK420 street tires.

Laguna does not drain well at all.


KT
nine14cats
Just got back from the Black Bear diner...whoa I'm stuffed...fried chicken dinner and chocolate ice cream for dessert.... w00t.gif

It's raining right now. I just heard the local weather forecast....rain all night but clearing in the morning with rain again in the afternoon...

With some luck I should get some dry sessions in tomorrow.

Bill P.
Randal
QUOTE(nine14cats @ Dec 8 2006, 06:54 PM) *

Just got back from the Black Bear diner...whoa I'm stuffed...fried chicken dinner and chocolate ice cream for dessert.... w00t.gif

It's raining right now. I just heard the local weather forecast....rain all night but clearing in the morning with rain again in the afternoon...

With some luck I should get some dry sessions in tomorrow.

Bill P.





Oh yes, the Black Bear diner...

Hoping for sunshine or at least a dry track for tomorrow.
chilli
QUOTE(nine14cats @ Dec 8 2006, 06:54 PM) *

Just got back from the Black Bear diner...whoa I'm stuffed...fried chicken dinner and chocolate ice cream for dessert.... w00t.gif

It's raining right now. I just heard the local weather forecast....rain all night but clearing in the morning with rain again in the afternoon...

With some luck I should get some dry sessions in tomorrow.

Bill P.

beer3.gif Used to go to Nancy's, but not happy the last few times even for breakfast. Had the ham and eggs at Black Bear once. Thought they brought dish for the whole table. The ham slice was absolutely huge.

Try to stay dry, have fun with new lines.

mike driving.gif driving.gif
J P Stein
Just a little something for guys that buy/build their own cars..

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xqxdj_wetrace
Randal
QUOTE(J P Stein @ Dec 9 2006, 10:26 AM) *

Just a little something for guys that buy/build their own cars..

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xqxdj_wetrace



That is scary.

The one course worker was really really lucky when he was trapped between the barrier and the car spinning. We was knocked off his feet running away and probably had sore legs and butt, but his head was intact. He wasn’t wearing a helmet (crazy). Wow!

Trekkor
currently:

Click to view attachment



KT
Terrance
Pics from today. Bill, couldn't find you, but your car isn't easy to miss.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/terranceseto/...57594412909379/

IPB Image

IPB Image
nine14cats
Hi Terrance,

Thanks for the pictures! What group were you running in today? I was in "C" group.

Overall a great day. We seemed to be able to get in several clear sessions. I really was impressed with Hooked On Driving. Their instructors were very knowledgable and they really ran a first rate DE. One of the best in my opinion. I plan to run with them when I can.

My first session was in a light mist, but the rest of the day was on a cold but dry track during my runs. I tried lowering the pressure on the tires to get them to heat up but no go there. They just stayed cold. The car felt "soft" all day but I left the suspension settings alone to get a nice feel for the car.

For the last session I added more tire pressure and cranked up the PSS9's by one click in the front and 2 in the back. I ended up running a 2:15 and change. No speed records today, but not bad for the 2nd track day with Lucille. I can't wait to try her with warm tires.

The spec miata guys were kicking my butt all day. I couldn't get comfortable enough to hang with them in the corners. laugh.gif

Overall a great day.

Bill P.
Trekkor
I really hope all the rain falls over night like they say.

We're both in TT8 with GGR. You are dropping 2:15's on a cold track the first time out with your car.

I was pushing to the limit and beyond, begging for a 2:15 ( my best )

I hope we can do some lead/follow tomorrow.


KT
Terrance
QUOTE(nine14cats @ Dec 9 2006, 07:31 PM) *

Hi Terrance,

Thanks for the pictures! What group were you running in today? I was in "C" group.

Overall a great day. We seemed to be able to get in several clear sessions. I really was impressed with Hooked On Driving. Their instructors were very knowledgable and they really ran a first rate DE. One of the best in my opinion. I plan to run with them when I can.

My first session was in a light mist, but the rest of the day was on a cold but dry track during my runs. I tried lowering the pressure on the tires to get them to heat up but no go there. They just stayed cold. The car felt "soft" all day but I left the suspension settings alone to get a nice feel for the car.

For the last session I added more tire pressure and cranked up the PSS9's by one click in the front and 2 in the back. I ended up running a 2:15 and change. No speed records today, but not bad for the 2nd track day with Lucille. I can't wait to try her with warm tires.

The spec miata guys were kicking my butt all day. I couldn't get comfortable enough to hang with them in the corners. laugh.gif

Overall a great day.

Bill P.



I wasn't really running, it was my friend's first time, so he ran in group A, but I was able to sneak out for a session in his car. BLue 350z. Of course, since I had more experience, I pretty much passed up the entire field in 5 laps, then smoked his brakes in the run, almost taking out Turn 14 tires. biggrin.gif Went back pits with a good amount of smoke coming from the front brakes. Oops! blink.gif

One of the reasons I really went was to take pics with my new camera. aktion035.gif
Trekkor
I left this morning at 4:00am yawn.gif

I got to the track around 6:15, just in time for the rain to start. dry.gif

By around 7:30 it was really coming down hard.
By around 9:00 it completely stopped raining and the track dried out the rest of the day....Slowly.

The ground temp was 50 degrees and if was damp "off line".
I got down to a 2:21 and we had a great time even thogh it was so cold and windy.


Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment


KT
nebreitling
that last shot is great!

glad you guys kept safe and had a good time...
Trekkor
Is was arctic...


KT
nine14cats
Day 2 at Thunderhill was a great day again! Cold, but a ton of fun! clap56.gif

Trekkor and I got to ride in each other's cars and chase each other around the track.

Beats working!

Bill P.
DanT
how about some technical info Bill?

what adjustments did you make, what tires did you use, how was the general feel of the car in turn 1, 2, 5, 8 and 10?

inquiring minds want to know biggrin.gif
nine14cats
QUOTE(Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Dec 10 2006, 10:44 PM) *

how about some technical info Bill?

what adjustments did you make, what tires did you use, how was the general feel of the car in turn 1, 2, 5, 8 and 10?

inquiring minds want to know biggrin.gif


The car felt very soft on day 1. I couldn't dive bomb into turns like I could with Fritz. The car just wouldn't stick. A large part of that was the conditions (rain, very cold) but the skinny tires compared to the gonzo slicks really make a difference. I had the shocks on a medium setting left over from the Sear's setup but I stiffened the car substantially on the clickers and it made a big difference in the car.

On day 2 I could take 1 much more aggressively. Turn 2 the Boxster liked the double apex or 914 line. Turn 3 and 4 the car definitely liked the inside "hugging line. Not enough tire to try to whip it into the trough and out. 5 I could take in 2nd or 3rd gear (I settled on 3rd). 6 was a learning process again as I was feathering the throttle at turn in all weekend then realized I didn't have 300HP anymore and during my last session I kept my foot in it and the car was fine. 7 I took the normal way. The car liked 8. With a little more grippy service there is alot of time to be had there (I looked down at the digital speedo and I was over 100MPH through there). Turn 9 had no drama, just need to remember to carry momemtum up the hill. Turn 10 was good for the Boxster, I could rail through their pretty quickly and catch several cars between 10 and 11. Turn 11 was a give up corner. The gear ratios of the Box suck for that turn. 2nd gear is too low and 3rd is too high. I used second in traffic to squirt out of there but if I was alone I left it in 3rd. 12 and 13 I stayed off the berm areas as they were really slick from the rain and several cars that tried running over them spun out during the side to side transistions. 14 and 15 were really slick, no matter how hard I tried I couldn't exit with full throttle until very late into 15 because the car wouldn't hook up (limited slip anyone!).

I ran the Victoracers all day 245/45/17's front on 7 inch rims and 275/40/17's on the rear. Trekkor took tire temps of my tires and they were ~95 degrees HOT when I came off. Arctic conditions. As a point of reference, Trekkor's Hoosiers were I think barely over 98 degrees, and the track surface temp was 50 degrees. My next test will be either a wider tire or Hoosiers on 8.5 inch rims up front. I think with the added rim width the car will really turn in with confidence instead of the rollover feeling we're getting from the skinny rim up front.

It isn't going to be easy for me to turn 2:09's, but the car is capable. I don't know if I am but the car is. laugh.gif I was much more comfortable in the car after the suspension adjustments and some seat time and when I picked up the pace I could turn 15's and 16's in cruise mode.

One thing I was very surprised with is how good the stock Boxster brakes are. I found during my last session I didn't need to brake so early and I could modulate the braking down quickly. And the car is very stable under heavy braking with a slight rear twitch if you pitch the car forward with a strong stab of the brake pedal.

I do need to make a block for the accelerator pedal to facilitate heal and toe. The brake pedal is has so little travel you really have to articulate your foot to get to the throttle.

I'll also have to pull the nose and re-tighten the center radiator lines I just installed. No leaks per se, but if you look underneath there is weeping that is forming on the bottom of the car from both sides, so I'll need to pull down both side radiators again.

On a comfort note, since my heat was still functional, I ran the heater when on the track with the windows down. It kept the cabin VERY comfortable and I never got cold. A very nice feature for a track only car.

I'm signed up for Laguna Seca on Sunday, January 7th. Can't wait for that!

Here's some pics of the car this weekend. You can see how well the suspension was working in some of the shots.

First shot on the backstraight between 13 and 14.

Bill P.
nine14cats
This is the car in turn 3.

Bill P.
nine14cats
Entering turn 10. I could make up all kinds of time on big HP cars from the entrance of 10 to the exit of 12. By turn 13 they would pull me again.

Bill P.
nine14cats
Apex of turn 10. Car's suspension is working well. You can't early apex 10 at high speed, but it is banked and wider on the exit than you think. You can see that my apex point is a neutral apex, not early or late. I will have to adjust it as I bring more speed into the turn and explore the limits of the Boxster.

In Fritz I would hit the turn with alot of speed and take this same line and just eat other cars up. Off course it helps to have 13 inch slicks on the car. Hmmm, how can I fit those under Lucille?

Bill P.
nine14cats
Turn 10 exit.

Bill P.
DanT
very nice Bill.

for the conditions I don't think you could have asked for more. I think your biggest issue now will be to learn to drive a momentum car again...those big slicks and big HP must be cleaned from your memory biggrin.gif

2:08s and 2:09s are in your future...

remember I can turn ~15s with my stocker....but that was on a slightly warmer day... and I was chasing Larry or was he chasing me?
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