Another site I belong to had a thread about Richie Ginther and someone asked what happend to his 914's. His shop was in Culver City Ca. I think I've seen photos of a -6 that has been restored and the owner drives it in vintage touring events.

Anyone know anything?

Here his is with EFR at the wheel....

I have been, quietly, wondering the same thing. I'm guessing they would have very low VIN's. My reasoning there is that they were among the first to be delivered, sometime about May 1970. 914043033 was delivered in May.

Bought up by Brumos? I only say that as they have a narrow body ginther screened 914 that looks simliar to that one.

Unsung 914 Hero
Here is one of his cars,
http://www.datsun.org/fairlady/BobHindson.htm
This Book has alot of great driving tips and phot's of his cars

I think this is one of his?

Here is some recolection of the man,interesting reading
http://forums.autosport-atlas.com/showthre...mp;pagenumber=1

From the book

paul,

i found this googling around .....

Bob Hindson, from Kansas City, the proprietor of Hindson's Foreign Car Sales and Service, was already a successful racer before he moved to Datsun. Running in C Sedan, his immaculate #31 Mini was a regular sight on the National and Regional circuit and he twice took it to the American Road Race of Champions. At the 1966 event, after winning the MidWest divisional championshipc, Bob came within a second of winning the national championship. He exchanged the lead virtually every lap with Richard McDaniel, also racing a Mini, and led going into the last lap. Most agreed that the title should have been shared as this was the most exciting race of the weekend. McDaniel went on to win three national championships in C Sedan.

While racing the Mini, Bob also invested in a beautiful 1967.5 Datsun 2000 Roadster (see Gallery below). For the 1968 season he raced both cars, building on his previous success. A busy season culminated in an invitation to race both cars at that year's ARRC at Riverside. From the MidWest division, Bob qualified his Datsun alongside the Datsun 2000s of Dick Roberts and Doc Foerster (Pages coming soon). Unfortunately, Bob recorded a DNF with the Mini, although he faired a little better with his Datsun, placing 12th, two places behind Roberts.

Around this time, Bob was asked to sit on the committee that decided the SCCA's car classifications. The committee included Bob Sharp, Kas Kastner, (Triumph), Joe Huffaker (then MG, later Jensen-Healey) and other great names from the sport. There were apparently a number of full and frank committee meetings, each member having their own view on the class in which they, as well as their rivals, should compete.

Bob's success soon sparked interest from Porsche. The 914-6 had just been launched with mixed reaction from the US public, and Porsche-Audi was looking for some good PR. None other that Richie Ginther was asked to prepare six orange cars in his West Coast shop. Two cars went to each of three divisional teams for racing in C Production - Alan Johnson and Elliott Forbes-Robinson (later Datsun) raced two of the cars for Ginther himself. In the Southeast, Porsche racer Peter Gregg ran two cars for Pete Harrison and himself, and in the MidWest, Bob Hindson and Kendall Noah ran cars for veteran Porsche racer and Kansas shop owner Art Bunker.

It was mid-1969 when Pete Brock released Art Oehrli, his engine building guru, from BRE. Art had done some wonderful things with the Datsun 2000 roadster (U-20) engine and had also produced some major power increase in the 240Z. Art moved to Porsche and was given the task of developing the 914-6 engine. By the end of the 1970 season, he had squeezed 212hp from the 2-litre Porsche unit, sufficient to worry its main competition - the Datsun 240Z. Bob Hindson won the 1970 C Production title in the MidWest first time out, ahead of Kendall Noah (Porsche 914-6, 2nd) and BRE's John McComb (Datsun 240Z, 3rd). Bob was invited to the ARRC, along with six other 914-6s. Here, although Bob showed well, the best 914-6 finishes were 4th and 5th for Johnson and Forbes-Robinson, behind the Datsun Z cars of John Morton, Bob Sharp and John McComb.

Although factory sponsorship of the 914-6 was withdrawn for 1971, Bob continued with the car and won the MidWest title again that year. Bob Hindson went on to win no less than 13 divisional titles, with various Porsche machinery - perhaps Bob's greatest achievements were his two GTU wins at the Daytona 24 hours in 1976 and 1977.


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Bob Hindson Racing is still a major force in the MidWest, although Bob himself is now retired from the business. Bob's Porsche 914-6 is the only known survivor of the six race cars, and it was rebuilt by Bob himself in 1985.

The whereabouts of Bob's Datsun 2000 is sadly not known.

Rob Beddington

also found this at air cooled racing (scroll down a little).

Alan Johnson's office is 5-6 blocks from me.

AJ-USA

I havent met him yet, but I would like to pick his brain and possibly have him "guest" speek on the site one evening.


B

Alan usually gives part of the chalk board talk in the PCA San Diego driving schools held twice a year. He has also done several sesisons I have attended at tech sessions where he will cover one or two aspects of driving which are great to hear. He also did a great narrative tour at the Torrey Pines Lodge and Golf Course this year when the PCA SD wifes had a day at the spa and covered the old race course and a lot of great stories. The day at the spa was my wifes Mother's day gift and only cost me about $550 for the complete package!!!

Bill Cuddy owned one of the Ginther built cars and it was silver ..... latest owner I found was Alan Kendall and it looks nothing like when we raced it. Art Oehrli was cutting cams for us in his garage near LAX.

I just found one more of the Ginther cars. It was owned by Joe who owns Schneider's Autohouse in Santa Barbara. It was converted into an IMSA car and then a few years ago was sold to an employee of his, Bob, who is a mechanic at Santa Barbara Porsche. Apparently it looks nothing like it did when it was a ginther car. It is now almost a complete tube frame car with a big displacement 6 in it.
I'm talking to them right now about buying it. The present owner has lost interest and I think it would make a good vintage car.
If I can get pics I'll post them
Randy
"Car 54 Here I Am" G prod SCCA porsche 914

Randy,
that pretty cool!

Thanks for the update.

Paul

Dare I necro-bump this thread...?

A recent article in Vintage Motorsports magazine has me looking for current info on the 1970-1972 Ginther cars, specifically the 1972 E Production 2L /4 cars of EFR (#29) and Dwight Mitchell (#30). I'd like to know their current status (if they still exist), any build sheets there may be, and any insight of how/why EFR's car was running 5-bolt wheels even though Prod regs at the time did not allow that (as best I can tell).

I've seen photos of VW-Pacific's #42 C Production car (one of the 1970 /6 cars) and apparently EFR's #29 /4 made an appearance at Rennsport Reunion IV (same car?)

It would be really wicked if someone has a copy of the build specs/recipe that Ginther put out after building the 1972 cars. The author of the above article wrote that he has a copy, but I've yet to get in contact with him.

I've got this wild idea of turning my car into a tribute (I'm being talked out of it) but I'd still like to learn more.

GA

Didn't Ginther run 914-4s? I seem to remember a Panorama or Up-Fixen article explaining the changes they made to the cars for racing. Solex carbs, undercar sway bars, etc. I imagine I still have the article somewhere, though it must be buried back in my archives.

The Frank family owns the #29 car.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvTHJQcKzqQ

As best I can tell from various sources...Richie Ginther, as an employee of VW-Pacific, was commissioned by VW (Jo Hoppen) to built six 914-6 cars for 1970, for dealers to go for the 1970 ARRC (Road Atlanta) C Production National Championships. Two of those were campaigned by VW-Pacific for Alan Johnson and Elliot Forbes Robinson. They only got 4th and 5th at the ARRC behind the Datsuns. VW lost interest in the program and the cars were raced in 1971 but not seriously.

For 1972, VW/Hoppen commission Ginther, now in his own shop, to build a 914-4 to win the 1972 E Production ARRC national championship and got EFR to drive it. That's the #29 car. At the same time Hoppen wanted Ginther to create instructions for other to build one. The #30 914-4 car of Dwight Mitchell is either a result of that recipe or it may have been another VW-Pacific build. EFR almost lapped the whole field in the rain at the 1972 ARRC but was DQ'd due to non-compliant wheel track.

So, there were six 914-6s from 1970, and at least two 914-4s from 1972.

I've yet to find SCCA Prod regs from the 1970s (oldest copy I have is 1995) so I don't know what mods were allowed in Production back then. Which is why I'm really curious why EFR's #30 was sporting 5-bolt wheels.

Oh, that's a treasure trove of info. Too bad his "Specifications" page doesn't link.

http://www.frankracing.com/ginther-914-4.html

WebArchive has some of it, but didn't cache the images, especially the link to the "How To Guide" that I'm looking for:

http://web.archive.org/web/20160711055150/...ng.com/914.html

Porsche Panorama July 1973 is part II of the prep of the /4 cars.
Don't have part I, don't know the date.

I have neither. Care to upload?

One of the old Pano articles talks about the Garretson's guys putting Mitchell's 914 on a shaker table at Lockheed in the Bay Area. They found where the vibration nodes were, and built a cage taking those into account. Supposedly the result was much stiffer.

It's in one of the "Upfixin'" books.

--DD

Last I heard, Dwight Mitchell had retired and moved to Florida. JCD914 (Jim Dupree) worked for him back in the day. Ron Kain bought his shop which is called IPB Autosport. Either of these two guys can probably get you in touch with Dwight to ask questions and maybe answer a question or two directly.

No, that was built by Brumos

In 1970 there were six 914/6s prepared as Ginther Roadsters
I know where 3 of them are located and 1 of them was totaled at Black Hawk Farms raceway in the 1970's.

A 914/4 from the 1972 effort that driven by Dwight Mitchell is still campaigned by Frank Racing

The Frank racing guys were SO nice to talk to at Rennsport- I'm sure if you had a question about their car they would respond via their website.

We had a discussion about the previous full cage in the car costing them a couple seconds a lap over the current/original roll hoop. The car had some issues that weekend but when it was running she was quick!

According to their web site, their #29 is the #29 car driven by EFR. That's supported by their car being 5-bolt.

Still looking for info on Dwight Mitchell's #30 4-bolt car.


Thank you, I'll send them a note for more info.

At the Frank site, does the spec tab for the 4 not work for everyone? I'd like to see that.

Specs option does not have a hyperlink. I'd like to see that too.

Paul,

The current Jul/Aug 2017 edition of Vintage Motorsport has a seven page article on the early 914 racing history in the US. The first page has a picture with the caption "Frank Trevor races the ex-Ritchie Ginther team Porsche 914 at the Monterey Reunion in 2011". I don't know if this is correct or not. I scanned and attached the magazine cover and the first page of the article.

Still have a set of Solex 40-P11/4 carbs I got from them in the early 70's that I put on my '71...

Boy, those pictures bring back memories. Was just cleaning out my attic the other day and found a ton (or it seeemed like) of old Panoramas- the wife encouraged me to give them away...

I've got that magazine as well; it's what re-started this quest...

That is Frank Racing's car, and much of the information and photos in that article came from Frank's web site.

I'm in touch with the author of the article; I'll pass along what I learn.

Opps sorry i didn't read the whole thread so here are some pix
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Cover
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If anyone has Part I please contribute.
Thanks,
Mike

The spring loaded carb studs are an interesting touch.

Not to get too far off topic, but is there that much of an aero advantage to cutting off the windscreen? I've always wondered.

Konrad

Yes. That's a lot of frontal area that doesn't have to move air around the car, and air that isn't flowing into the car windows with no way out, all for cars with low horsepower. Of course, the rear window in the 914 is removed as well.

Very common for all "serious" Prod racers of convertibles*, even today.

GA

*Edit: targa cars can be built as either open- or closed-top, depending on the racers' desire. Miata builders, for example, have found a big aero advantage to cutting off the windshield versus putting on the hard top. There's even discussions on the Prod forum about the potential advantage of lining up the rollcage tubes themselves to reduce drag.

If memory serves correctly, frontal area is reduced by 36% with windshield removed

Ok so you guys are asking about the old Ginther cars. Since I had one I knew a fair amount about the cars back in the day. Remember back then nobody cared about history, record keeping or for that matter documenting anything with something as simple as pictures.
In 1970 a batch of 6-cylinder cars that were prepped and raced in some of the SCCA divisions. As was noted earlier Alan Johnson and EFR were the west coast contingent. Peter Gregg and Pete Harrison ran the Southwest while Bob Hindson and Kendall Noah ran the Midwest. I don’t know where Chuck Deitrich got his car but he ran in the Central division. It later ended up in Freddie Bakers hands for his early SCCA days.
While I don’t know where all the cars ended up but I can speak for a couple of them. The CENDIV car, which was driven by Deitrich and was sponsored by MIDVO, the Porsche/VW distributor back then, was sold to Freddie Baker of Bedford Ohio and he and I both got our SCCA licenses by beating up on each other. It’s the car that ended up in Alan Kendall’s possession. I had purchased the Hindson car as my first “real racecar”. I raced it for a couple of years until I decided to move up to something a bit faster when I looked at and passed on Merv Rosen’s 906 and instead bought a Cosworth powered Royale sports racer. But that’s another story.
Glenn Stazak spoke up and said that he knows where 3 cars are and that 1 was destroyed at Blackhawk. The car that was destroyed could very well have been the original Hindson car because I heard that after I sold it, it was wrapped around a tree somewhere. It could have been on a track or it could have been on the street because I also heard it was put back on the street. That would have been a huge chore because there just wasn’t much to the cars. They weighed under well 2000 lbs. and had no frills on them. It did have the early all 7” all back spaced wheels on it and I remember having to put spacer blocks under the roll bar so I would be legal.
You might ask how I know that the car I had was Hindson’s car. Easy, I drove to Kansas to pick it up, paid about 2500.00 which was a lot back then and under the “PORSCHE” decals on the rear quarters HINDSON was hand lettered. Dead giveaway.
Ginther also was involved in the development of the 4 cylinder cars for SCCA in E Production. That’s when they figured out about the roll bar/cage and frame stiffening.

This picture is from a weekend at Nelson’s Ledges in 1971 or 72.
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This picture is from an autocross about the same era.
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Those were the days......

What if one of the -6 cars were converted to a -4? This would explain the wheels.

Do we know if the raced in 72 car was running 14 or 15 wheels? 14 wheels did come on early 911 and perhaps using 14 helped the project.

Found a copy of the 1972 SCCA Prod regs...no allowance for 5-bolt stuff.

"Curiousier and curiouser"...wouldn't it be ironic if the car was tossed from a National Championship for 1/2" track difference when all someone had to do was look at the bolt pattern...?

In the Nelsons pic, did the 9 car run 14" front and 15" rear wheels? What about the width?

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I bought a new porsche in Oct. of 1983 and I aways had It serviced by Bob Hindson's Shop. When I first started going there he had a white race car that he was racing in vintage races. He told me it was a 910 but I don't know if it wasn't a 917-10. I wasn't that knowlegable . It was a Can Am car for sure. I don't recall any markings on the car at all. There was a vintage race in Kansas City in July of 1984 or 1985 which he drove it in along with a handful of other Can Am cars and it is a memory that is vivid today. The Can Am cars were so incrediably fast and Bob's car was the quickest for sure. As he would come out of very slow left, definetly a first gear corner, and accellerate up the hill the tires wer still breaking lose going in to 3rd gear nd maybe forth and then they came back down the hill and the sound of the fast downshifting is like it happened this morning. Anyway bck on topic. Shortly after this the next time I was in for service he had sold this white car and was restoring a orange 914 . I didn't ask about it but He had in the special spot where the previous white car was. We did visit little bit about the car he sold. After he sold that car it's value increased about 4 fold in a little over a year. The orange car that he was working on I believe is this 42 car. I think this picture is a good candiate for garage art.

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I believe that car is owned by Edith Arrowsmith in Phoenix.

Don't forget the weight advantage. You can drop approx. 50 lbs out of a 914 by getting rid of the roof, windshield, and frame.

Answering a couple of questions:
The cars had the early R 7x15 wheels with all the backspace to the back. Those wheels are very rare and expensive today. Since the cars were delivered with either 14 or 15 wheels you could run either one up to an inch wider than delivered. SCCA's GCR's (general competition rules) allowed that.
They also allowed windshields to be removed and replaced with a windscreen. BUT the windscreen had to start where the old windshield started and couldn't extend beyond the rear of what it was replacing. Hence the long windscreen that was on the cars. It came rearward to the point where the windshield met the top. Again per the GCR's. Not only that it looked cool.
SCCA racing back then was all about reading between the line of the GCR's. If you could do that you could gain an advantage.
As far as the removal of the windshield it does lower the weight and it does cut down on frontal area. I don't know how much but I can relate some noticeable results that occurred. The first 914 I ran at Daytona in 1976 lost about 5 MPH on the back straight when we put the headlights up for night driving. You needed all the light you could get then because none of the track was lit up like today. Also there was no chicane in the back straight so you lost a bunch of time on the banking. Then the rules got a bit more liberal and we could put headlights in the front spoiler behind lexan. See picture of lights at Daytona in 1979

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Just little side not that has nothing to do with the race cars. I was south bound on the 405 just north of San Diego, on a fine day in my 914, in the mid 1980s. I spied a 914 parked near the center divider. Of course, I pulled over. It turned out to be Alan Johnson. I don't remember the reason for the breakdown. But I picked him up and gave him a lift to his shop. He was late and he was the only one with keys to the shop. Just something that happened.

Greg W.

the Regulations did not limit the number of bolts or the PCD, the and rear rotors were standard 914-4 simply redrilled with the 911/94-66 5 Bolt PCD. Also interested is the fact that EFR used stock brake pads in the Garretson 914-4 when he drove it and the lasted multiple races, while Dwight Mitchell used the top Ferodo race pads and wasted them in one race weekend.

We have talked to EFR, Hoppen and Broughton about the DQ, it was a bummer since EFR already had celebrated the race win, and they could have run faster with the spacer removed as well.

From my library ; Richie Ginther's L.A. shop pics, the tech in the pic is Harold Broughton. I don't have an address on this shop from yesteryear, but I will post up when I learn of it. Culver City is a possibility , one block of Jefferson Bl. had the locations of Dick Guldstrand Racing, Traco Engineering, Ed Iskenderian Cams
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